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Post by johnw on Nov 2, 2023 0:40:36 GMT
I think it's exciting to think that more animations are possible and the Toymaker would be great to be animated, brilliant story and each episode brings a different dilemma with characters that would be highly expanded upon compared to the telesnap recons.
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Post by Mark Berry on Nov 2, 2023 3:24:53 GMT
I'm loooking forward to a potential CT animation – anyone know if the sound quality is good on the three missing episodes? Would the best source be Graham Strong's recordings or the "Randolph" tapes??
FWIW, I much prefer the animations in B&W, and faithful as feasibly possible to the original broadcast versions (warts and all). Moonbase, Invasion, Tenth Planet, and Ice Warriors are the most satisfying (to me), in this regard, followed by Evil and Power of the Daleks (shame about the recorder-playing edits though).
I've not yet seen the animation for the Abominable Snowmen (it's on my Xmas list), but hoping it's more rewarding than Fury from the Deep – which discarded creeping atmosphere in favour of an unnecessarily epic, grand scale (a bizarre creative choice for a story set on a claustrophobic oil rig!).
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Post by Sara Irving on Nov 2, 2023 14:30:33 GMT
I'm loooking forward to a potential CT animation – anyone know if the sound quality is good on the three missing episodes? Would the best source be Graham Strong's recordings or the "Randolph" tapes?? FWIW, I much prefer the animations in B&W, and faithful as feasibly possible to the original broadcast versions (warts and all). Moonbase, Invasion, Tenth Planet, and Ice Warriors are the most satisfying (to me), in this regard, followed by Evil and Power of the Daleks (shame about the recorder-playing edits though). I've not yet seen the animation for the Abominable Snowmen (it's on my Xmas list), but hoping it's more rewarding than Fury from the Deep – which discarded creeping atmosphere in favour of an unnecessarily epic, grand scale (a bizarre creative choice for a story set on a claustrophobic oil rig!). There are no Graham Strong recordings for Celestial Toymaker - he disliked the story and reused the tapes. I'd imagine the Randolph tapes, potentially mixed with other sources, would be the best solution. It's been a while since I watched the recon so couldn't comment on the audio quality of the pre-Randolph tape discovery copies. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2023 15:00:21 GMT
I'm loooking forward to a potential CT animation – anyone know if the sound quality is good on the three missing episodes? Would the best source be Graham Strong's recordings or the "Randolph" tapes?? FWIW, I much prefer the animations in B&W, and faithful as feasibly possible to the original broadcast versions (warts and all). Moonbase, Invasion, Tenth Planet, and Ice Warriors are the most satisfying (to me), in this regard, followed by Evil and Power of the Daleks (shame about the recorder-playing edits though). I've not yet seen the animation for the Abominable Snowmen (it's on my Xmas list), but hoping it's more rewarding than Fury from the Deep – which discarded creeping atmosphere in favour of an unnecessarily epic, grand scale (a bizarre creative choice for a story set on a claustrophobic oil rig!). There are no Graham Strong recordings for Celestial Toymaker - he disliked the story and reused the tapes. I'd imagine the Randolph tapes, potentially mixed with other sources, would be the best solution. It's been a while since I watched the recon so couldn't comment on the audio quality of the pre-Randolph tape discovery copies. They used David Holman's audio recording for the Celestial Toymaker previously, so they'll likely use them again, but add the apology from the Randolph Tapes. |
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Post by Sara Irving on Nov 2, 2023 22:14:53 GMT
There are no Graham Strong recordings for Celestial Toymaker - he disliked the story and reused the tapes. I'd imagine the Randolph tapes, potentially mixed with other sources, would be the best solution. It's been a while since I watched the recon so couldn't comment on the audio quality of the pre-Randolph tape discovery copies. They used David Holman's audio recording for the Celestial Toymaker previously, so they'll likely use them again, but add the apology from the Randolph Tapes. I would be incredibly surprised if their basis for what audio to use was as simple as "we'll use what we used last time", especially given last time was 2001. If the Randolph tapes represent an improvement in quality from David Holman's audio it would make no sense to use Holman's as the basis. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 14:49:31 GMT
They used David Holman's audio recording for the Celestial Toymaker previously, so they'll likely use them again, but add the apology from the Randolph Tapes. I would be incredibly surprised if their basis for what audio to use was as simple as "we'll use what we used last time", especially given last time was 2001. If the Randolph tapes represent an improvement in quality from David Holman's audio it would make no sense to use Holman's as the basis. It depends. Remember, the Randolph tapes are still new, so it's up to ananlysis by the BBC. If the Randolph Tapes are considered better quality than Holman's tapes, they'll use the Randolf Tapes. If Holman's tapes are considered better quality than the Randolph tapes, they'll use Holman's Tapes. Either way, they'll only be used in serials that Graham Strong didn't record, since Strong's tapes are considered the highest quality and the cleanest sounding. |
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Post by mattg on Nov 4, 2023 19:49:31 GMT
I've not yet seen the animation for the Abominable Snowmen (it's on my Xmas list), but hoping it's more rewarding than Fury from the Deep – which discarded creeping atmosphere in favour of an unnecessarily epic, grand scale (a bizarre creative choice for a story set on a claustrophobic oil rig!). Glad it’s not just me that thought that about Fury’! Some truly bizarre creative decisions were made for that serial. Must admit though that whilst I too prefer authenticity most of the time there are some exceptions. ‘Galaxy 4’ for example is another story where the animation takes some artistic liberties in terms of visual scale yet the results arguably enhance rather than detract. Likewise the animated Macra beasts, now only bearing a superficial resemblance to the dodgy Shawcraft original prop, are finally the menace they were originally intended to be in ‘The Macra Terror’. As for the best animations to date, ‘Moonbase 1 + 3, ‘Invasion 1 & 4, ‘Tenth Planet 4 and ‘Reign of Terror 4 & 5 (despite some excessive recycling of certain sequences) remain the definite apex for me… |
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Post by Sara Irving on Nov 5, 2023 10:33:07 GMT
I would be incredibly surprised if their basis for what audio to use was as simple as "we'll use what we used last time", especially given last time was 2001. If the Randolph tapes represent an improvement in quality from David Holman's audio it would make no sense to use Holman's as the basis. It depends. Remember, the Randolph tapes are still new, so it's up to ananlysis by the BBC. If the Randolph Tapes are considered better quality than Holman's tapes, they'll use the Randolf Tapes. If Holman's tapes are considered better quality than the Randolph tapes, they'll use Holman's Tapes. Either way, they'll only be used in serials that Graham Strong didn't record, since Strong's tapes are considered the highest quality and the cleanest sounding. That's exactly what I was saying - they'll be analysing the audio they have, and determining the best choice, or combination of choices. I've read it said that the Randolph Tapes are better quality than what we had for the Celestial Toymaker, most likely from when they were found a few years ago. EDIT: Found the source: www.doctorwhonews.net/2019/01/randolph-tapes.htmlIncludes what appears to be a quote from Mark Ayres, stating that the Randolph Tapes are better than the "roomy microphone recordings" that were previously held for The Celestial Toymaker. |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Nov 5, 2023 13:57:18 GMT
I've not yet seen the animation for the Abominable Snowmen (it's on my Xmas list), but hoping it's more rewarding than Fury from the Deep – which discarded creeping atmosphere in favour of an unnecessarily epic, grand scale (a bizarre creative choice for a story set on a claustrophobic oil rig!). Well, it's not set on an oil rig for a start! It's an onshore control centre.  To be honest, those changes don't really bother me. When you're talking about creating animation that are purely being used to plug the gaps in the existing episodes, then I agree, they should remain as close as possible to the original. That's what we did with the animation of The Ice Warriors 2 & 3, closely following the tele-snaps and the camera script as to the shot choices and which type of lens they were using for each one. For later animations, where they are creating a full entity as a saleable asset in its own right, then I think it's fair enough that greater creative choices can be made. Bear in mind that for a story like Fury, the sets (certainly the main control centre) were made as large as possible within the confines of the small studio space at Lime Grove and Ealing that they were shooting in. It wasn't that they were deliberately making them small, the designer was simply stuck with the dimensions of the studio that he was assigned to. Had he been given a larger studio space, the sets would no doubt have been more expansive. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2023 14:56:19 GMT
It depends. Remember, the Randolph tapes are still new, so it's up to ananlysis by the BBC. If the Randolph Tapes are considered better quality than Holman's tapes, they'll use the Randolf Tapes. If Holman's tapes are considered better quality than the Randolph tapes, they'll use Holman's Tapes. Either way, they'll only be used in serials that Graham Strong didn't record, since Strong's tapes are considered the highest quality and the cleanest sounding. That's exactly what I was saying - they'll be analysing the audio they have, and determining the best choice, or combination of choices. I've read it said that the Randolph Tapes are better quality than what we had for the Celestial Toymaker, most likely from when they were found a few years ago. EDIT: Found the source: www.doctorwhonews.net/2019/01/randolph-tapes.htmlIncludes what appears to be a quote from Mark Ayres, stating that the Randolph Tapes are better than the "roomy microphone recordings" that were previously held for The Celestial Toymaker. The source also shows that the Randolph tapes recorded from the Daleks Master Plan 1 to the Moonbase 1. So, the Randolph tapes do cover late Hartnell and early Troughton stories. It also says that it trumps both Graham's and Holman's recordings of the Daleks Master Plan up to ep 7. Remember that although both had started recording since An Unearthly Child, both initially used a poor quality microphone pointed to a speaker, giving a rough recording. David Holman didn't switch to using a high quality microphone until Marco Polo 1, while Graham Strong didn't switch to recording directly from the TV output to his recorder until Daleks Master Plan 7. While Graham's recordings from Daleks Master Plan 7 to Wheel in Space 6 are the highest recordings, any stories that he missed or wiped in between had to rely on Holman's recordings, which were considered the second best. Also the earlier missing Hartnell stories from Marco Polo 1 to Daleks Master Plan 6 had to use Holman's recordings. As a result of us now having the Randolph Tapes, we can now have higher quality Recordings of Daleks Master Plan 1-6 and all 4 of the Celestial Toymaker, plus some continuity announcements. |
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Post by John Wall on Nov 5, 2023 15:21:05 GMT
It would be useful to have a definitive annotated list of these recordings.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2023 15:47:42 GMT
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Post by Sara Irving on Nov 6, 2023 2:43:56 GMT
It would be useful to have a definitive annotated list of these recordings. Nothing At The End Of The Lane issue 1 goes into detail about a number of the audio recordings that had been discovered at time of release (July 1999). 5 pages going into detail on some of the sources of recordings, followed by two pages on the Doctor Who Restoration Team's work recovering the audios and Mark Ayres' work on restoring the audio, before a page and a half with a table covering each missing story, the recording determined to be the best at the time of the issue, other known recordings of the story, and notes. |
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Post by RhysH on Dec 7, 2023 12:53:30 GMT
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Post by jamesvincent on Dec 7, 2023 13:22:56 GMT
I'd say there is a decent chance it's going to be the one already partially on youtube. The person who made it has made some cryptic comments about it recently.
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