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Post by ianphillips on Sept 25, 2016 20:52:13 GMT
There's no way to tell for certain, but if we don't have them then censors probably weren't made or were immediately discarded if they were. It's not the only one either. The Faceless Ones, The Space Pirates, The Savages, The Celestial Toymaker, The Moonbase, Episode 3 of the Web of Fear, episode 4 of the Tenth Planet, and who knows how many existing episodes didn't have censor cuts either. There were even more from Season 1, Season 2, and Season 3 up to The Gunfighters, but it is impossible to know how many there were and from which episodes because the censor cuts from that period have been destroyed.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 18, 2016 21:32:06 GMT
With the new animation coming out, I figured that I would take a look back on The Power of the Daleks Reimagined, a remake of the classic story. But to my grief, I found that it had been removed for being too professional by the BBC. Does anyone remember this/know where it can still be seen?
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 17, 2016 0:04:13 GMT
Well Australia did not go to a full colour PAL system until 1975. Take a look at some of the Crawford's Productions fro the early 1970. I am currently watching The Box ( a soap opera set in an Australian TV Station UCV-12)and all the episodes from 1974 are 625 line PAL black and white VTR. If an episode was missing as were some from early 1974 there were no black and white tele recordings to fill in the gaps You know that really made me think. People have talked about how unlucky we are that we don't have more episodes than we do with how much work was put into trying to save them in the 1970s, and while we may not have been as lucky as we could have been in recovering episodes, we were lucky in different ways. First off, Doctor Who is almost unique among British shows of the time in the fact that it has good quality audio recordings for every single missing episode. Second, we have literally hundreds of tele-snaps for missing episodes. Three: there is a total of 22 minutes and 58 seconds of video clips from otherwise missing episodes, almost the length of an average episode and longer than some (e.g. The Mind Robber 1). Doctor Who is also one of the few shows to have an entirely intact archive in the 70s. It's only a shame that John Cura's wife burned hundreds, perhaps thousands of Doctor Who tele-snaps after his death, most likely including those from The Myth Makers, The Massacre, The Reign of Terror, Mission to the Unknown, The Daleks' Master Plan, The Celestial Toymaker, and Galaxy 4, which aired during Cura's active years and are without any tele-snap representation.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 14, 2016 19:37:25 GMT
It appears Phil has made relations with them Forgive me if I'm wrong, but along with the Web 3 announcement at Starburst didn't Phil mention something about the Wheel in Space. If he has found a way into the collectors network it's possible he picked up a lead from someone connected to Web 3.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 14, 2016 3:25:30 GMT
The five countries where Doctor Who episodes have disappeared: Hong Kong, Nigeria, Singapore, Zambia, and Gibraltar. With Hong Kong thoroughly searched and eliminated, the search in Nigeria nearing its conclusion, and Singapore seemingly Doctor Who free, that just leaves two countries: Gibraltar and Zambia. I know that Phil Morris visited Zambia in 2008 and declared ZTV held no episodes, but I am curious how thorough the search was. Was it long and scrutinous like the one in Nigeria or was it a quick check in that could have missed things? Also, has Phil Morris or any other distinguished episode hunter scoured Gibraltar?
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 14, 2016 1:14:36 GMT
They could do that for the DVD but I am sure BBC America would broadcast the animation instead of the 16mm film prints and then use clips from the existing episodes in the wrap around interviews that they show Most likely
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 14, 2016 1:08:30 GMT
Trying to think from a BBC America business perspective I would take a gamble and say they would do The Faceless Ones (to show the departure of Ben and Polly) The Evil of the Daleks which introduces Victoria and The Abominable Snowman and Fury from the Deep to say good by to Victoria. I also believe they would animate the existing episodes to make a polished product and stick the existing ones on a second disk as an extra I'm 100% on this, but I'd think they would most likely put the existing episode on disc one, but as a toggle-able option in the special features like they did for the colorized Episode 1 of the Invasion of the Dinosaurs.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 14, 2016 1:01:55 GMT
Logic would dictate that the ones most likely to be found were the Patrick Troughton ones sold around 1976 to Zambia right before the rights expired but we also know that logic is not always logical, look at the Dalek Master Plan prints that have turned up. My biggest curiosity over the years is where the film prints of "The Invasion" have come from. Lots of speculation but no concrete facts other than they do not have the ABC censor cuts made to them I think the most widely accepted opinion is the the episodes came from multiple sources due to the massive variations in quality between episodes, although at least one is almost certainly form Gibraltar.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 14, 2016 0:47:09 GMT
Yeah, I hate to say it, but if Singapore's been searches then barring a private collector, Power is gone, along with Evil and the Tenth Planet, joining Master Plan in the list of episodes that will never be recovered. However, on a brighter note, every single other Troughton has disappeared in Zambia (The missing historicals from seasons 1 and 2 have also disappeared in places, but not Zambia) except for The Invasion and Fury from the Deep, the only country other than NZ, Australia, and Singapore to air them was Gibratar, where the Invasion prints we have most likely came from, so I don't think we'll ever get 1 and 4 of the Invasion back either. The Fury prints did vanish, however. Also, all season 3 prints other than those from Singapore and Sierra Leone are accounted for, so if there are no prints left in Singapore then there is very little hope for the season 3 episodes either as the Sierra Leone prints are destroyed with 99% certainty. If they had been sent back to the BBC they would have been junked and if they had stayed in Sierra Leone then they would have been destroyed when the TV studio burned down, so unless some of the Sierra Leone prints ended up in a relay station like Web and Enemy then there is no hope for the season 3 episodes + The Smugglers either. So ultimately, barring private collectors or weird errors in shipping, the only serials we have a realistic chance at having recovered are those from seasons 1, 2, and 5, the season 4 Troughtons other than Power and Evil, and the Space Pirates (14 out of 26, one more than half the currently missing episodes). Man, that was depressing to type. We lost The Space Pirates!?!? NO! I've been genuinely hoping that it would resurface, and would be hailed as a classic... Shame. Well, we still got Power 6... I said that Space Pirates is one of the ones we have a chance of having recovered. I also forgot about episode 6 of POTD, so that one still has a realistic chance of an episode being recovered, but only one episode.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 14, 2016 0:29:12 GMT
Yeah, I hate to say it, but if Singapore's been searches then barring a private collector, Power is gone, along with Evil and the Tenth Planet, joining Master Plan in the list of episodes that will never be recovered. However, on a brighter note, every single other Troughton has disappeared in Zambia (The missing historicals from seasons 1 and 2 have also disappeared in places, but not Zambia) except for The Invasion and Fury from the Deep, the only country other than NZ, Australia, and Singapore to air them was Gibratar, where the Invasion prints we have most likely came from, so I don't think we'll ever get 1 and 4 of the Invasion back either. The Fury prints did vanish, however. Also, all season 3 prints other than those from Singapore and Sierra Leone are accounted for, so if there are no prints left in Singapore then there is very little hope for the season 3 episodes either as the Sierra Leone prints are destroyed with 99% certainty. If they had been sent back to the BBC they would have been junked and if they had stayed in Sierra Leone then they would have been destroyed when the TV studio burned down, so unless some of the Sierra Leone prints ended up in a relay station like Web and Enemy then there is no hope for the season 3 episodes + The Smugglers either. So ultimately, barring private collectors or weird errors in shipping, the only serials we have a realistic chance at having recovered are those from seasons 1, 2, and 5, the season 4 Troughtons other than Power and Evil, and the Space Pirates (14 out of 26, one more than half the currently missing episodes). Man, that was depressing to type.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 13, 2016 23:14:43 GMT
Web and Enemy were sent onto Nigeria because these films were required, right? Could Power have similarly been sent on with these films, possibly as an oversight? Of course, it would have to be a hell of an oversight, shifting 6 hefty film cans, in the mistaken belief these were required by another station in Africa. Has there been any cases where Doctor Who film cans have been found where they shouldn’t be? And if so, does that mean, then, against all the odds, the last set of prints of Power might be still be somewhere in Africa? The Reign of Terror episodes found in Cyprus should not have been there as the country never aired the episode. That is the only one I know of unless you count all the random places people have put prints they stole/bought like church basements and car boot sales. The chances of Power being sent to Africa from Singapore are virtually zero. There is no reason whatsoever for Power to have been sent there. The only prints that Singapore supplied to Africa were the four season 5 prints so if any miscalculations were made they would probably have been from season 5. The only remotely feasible situation for Power being sent to Africa is if it was accidentally shipped to Hong Kong with the other season 4 prints and then once again accidentally shipped to Zambia with the same set of prints. Assuming Power wasn't returned to the BBC, it's much more likely they were sold off to a private collector (Possibly along with Evil of the Daleks as the last print of that also vanished in Singapore. In fact a total of 12 now missing stories disappeared in Singapore including Power, Evil, Fury, Ice Warriors, Invasion, and all of season three minus Masterplan, War Machines, and Mission (Unless Singapore's "extra episode" was Mission to the Unknown in which case Mission disappeared there too), so it is entirely possible that they could all have gotten sold off to private collectors at some time or another. (The other missing season 5 episodes disappeared in Nigeria and the other season 4 prints and The Space Pirates disappeared in Zambia after being bicycled to Hong Kong)).
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 13, 2016 12:06:13 GMT
So basically, which story do we want back based on no criteria other than how good a story we think it is? Interesting. It was a tough decision for me, but I think I still have to go with The Power of the Daleks. It has historical relevance on its side, but the bigger reason I want that one back is just because I think it's an absolutely astonishingly good story. I'd argue that it's the best of the 1960's, and maybe even the best of the classic series. And that's just going by the reconstruction. Runner-ups are The Myth Makers and The Macra Terror, either one of which I might have had to vote for if we were considering criteria other than quality (because I think that everyone agrees that Power of the Daleks is fantastic, whereas I'd like to see Macra Terror or Myth Makers get re-evaluated the way Enemy of the World did). If I were just going to pick an episode I'd like to see one episode returned from, I'd probably pick The Macra Terror, which I suspect is pretty interesting visually. Or The Massacre, since I'd really love to see some of the performances in that one (particularly Hartnell's). I could definitely see the Myth Makers getting reevaluated as that is my favorite Hartnell. The only reason that Terror wouldn't be one of the ones I would most like to have returned is just how brilliantly the story works as a reconstruction. I don't think I missed anything in episodes 1 and 2 and almost nothing in episode 3. Episode 4 on the other hand would be the episode I would recover if I could choose one from the serial because that one was terrible as a recon.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 13, 2016 1:23:00 GMT
Shame as "which episode" would have been a better poll. "Which story" will put a bias towards those with the most episodes missing. If it is was "which episode", I'd have probably gone for WOF3, so it wouldn't feel such a pisser having it snatched from under our noses. But I wouldn't choose that over 9 episodes of DMP, 6 episodes of Evil etc ... Yeah, it would be interesting but that would be a poll with 97 choices.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 13, 2016 1:16:32 GMT
There have been many polls on which episode you would most like to be returned, but there haven't really been any on which you would be most happy to have returned. They are often not the same. It is my belief that every Whovian has a dream episode that they would enjoy having returned more than any other. For example, the episode that I most want returned is Power of the Daleks, but my dream episode (as pretty much anyone who has read one of my posts could guess) is Fury from the Deep. I would be ecstatic at the return of either as I would over any returned episode, but Fury would make me the most ecstatic of any. It is very common to see Power and The Tenth Planet placed as the episodes people most want recovered due their historical significance, or the Daleks' Master Plan because it would return the most episodes, but I think that often those episodes are not the ones that said voters would be the happiest to have returned. That's not to say that those three can't be dream episodes, they can be and are, but I think other things (like historical significance and episode count) get them voted for more than they might otherwise be. I might be totally wrong and the poll results will be exactly the same, but I want to see if a different episode else takes the lead. Your text makes references to "which EPISODE you most want returned" yet your poll seems to be for "which STORY - i.e. ALL of its missing episodes - you'd want returned" Fixed it
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 13, 2016 0:55:28 GMT
There have been many polls on which serial you would most like to be returned, but there haven't really been any on which you would be most happy to have returned. They are often not the same. It is my belief that every Whovian has a dream serial that they would enjoy having returned more than any other. For example, the serial that I most want returned is Power of the Daleks, but my dream serial (as pretty much anyone who has read one of my posts could guess) is Fury from the Deep. I would be ecstatic at the return of either as I would over any returned episode, but Fury would make me the most ecstatic of any. It is very common to see Power and The Tenth Planet placed as the serials people most want recovered due their historical significance, or the Daleks' Master Plan because it would return the most episodes, but I think that often those serials are not the ones that said voters would be the happiest to have returned. That's not to say that those three can't be dream serials, they can be and are, but I think other things (like historical significance and episode count) get them voted for more than they might otherwise be. I might be totally wrong and the poll results will be exactly the same, but I want to see if a different serial else takes the lead.
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