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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 1:59:13 GMT
As we know, only two sets of prints of The Power of the Daleks were made, and the set which was sent to Singapore is still listed as 'fate unknown'. According to Wikipedia "Singapore say they do not possess any copies, and what happened to this set is currently unknown."
Quite what 'Singapore say' refers to isn't elaborated on. In fact, I've never seen any official quote relating to who said this. When the set of prints was sent to Singapore for transmission the broadcasting company was known as Radio Television Singapore (1963–1980).
Like so many examples in the past, a TV station employee stating on the phone, "we don't have any Doctor Who" doesn't necessarily mean that they don't. What it usually means is that said employee is too busy to leave the phone and conduct a thorough and time-consuming search of their archives! So, 'Singapore say' just isn't good enough!
My question is, do we know if anyone has ever physically visited the Singapore TV station and gained access to the archives? Radio Television Singapore became the Singapore Broadcasting Corporation in 1980, the Television Corporation of Singapore in 1994, and MediaCorp TV 2001, which it remains as of today. It's not clear if the original premises for RTS is the same as Mediacorp TV, or whether everything, including the archive (which might still contain the film prints of POTD) has physically moved location. And during which of these four broadcaster banners 'Singapore say' comes into being is not clear either.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 8, 2016 3:30:31 GMT
I can't say for sure, but I am almost certain that at some point someone has trawled the Singapore archives for Doctor Who. However, if for some weird reason they have never been searche dthen I doubt Power would be found there as all of season 4 and the last three episodes of season 6 were supposedly sent to Hong Kong. However there are other episodes that could still be there including Fury from the Deep, episodes 2 and 3 of the Ice Warriors, Episodes 1 and 4 of the Invasion, and all of season 3 except for Masterplan. Once again I will say that you shouldn't get too excited as the Singapore archives have almost certainly been searched.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 5:32:14 GMT
I can't say for sure, but I am almost certain that at some point someone has trawled the Singapore archives for Doctor Who. However, if for some weird reason they have never been searche dthen I doubt Power would be found there as all of season 4 and the last three episodes of season 6 were supposedly sent to Hong Kong. However there are other episodes that could still be there including Fury from the Deep, episodes 2 and 3 of the Ice Warriors, Episodes 1 and 4 of the Invasion, and all of season 3 except for Masterplan. Once again I will say that you shouldn't get too excited as the Singapore archives have almost certainly been searched. Who searched them, do you know? Also, I thought Singapore was the final destination for Power, and thereafter 'unknown'? |
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 8, 2016 11:35:41 GMT
Who searched them, do you know? Also, I thought Singapore was the final destination for Power, and thereafter 'unknown'? I don't even know if there has been a search of Singapore, I just assumed that there would have been. The problem with the missing episodes is that the record keeping was horrible. Most likely after Singapore, however, the season 4s that went to Hong Kong were sent to Zambia where they disappeared. Zambia has been the location of pretty much every missing Troughton episode disappearing at some point (The only exceptions are Fury from the Deep, the Invasion, and the Wheel in Space). I am almost certain that Zambia has been searched. The season 3 prints did disappear after Singapore, however, and no one knows what happened to them. Fury, Ice Warriors, and Invasion are also MIA there. For more information you could check out gallifreybase.com/w/index.php/Main_Page |
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Post by scotttelfer on Sept 8, 2016 22:40:39 GMT
Who searched them, do you know? Also, I thought Singapore was the final destination for Power, and thereafter 'unknown'? I don't even know if there has been a search of Singapore, I just assumed that there would have been. The problem with the missing episodes is that the record keeping was horrible. Most likely after Singapore, however, the season 4s that went to Hong Kong were sent to Zambia where they disappeared. Zambia has been the location of pretty much every missing Troughton episode disappearing at some point (The only exceptions are Fury from the Deep, the Invasion, and the Wheel in Space). I am almost certain that Zambia has been searched. The season 3 prints did disappear after Singapore, however, and no one knows what happened to them. Fury, Ice Warriors, and Invasion are also MIA there. For more information you could check out gallifreybase.com/w/index.php/Main_PageZambia has been checked and had nothing left. There are plenty of cases of films being sent to places they shouldn't be. so you never know where they may turn up or how they'll get there. Power had limited sales, but may have been sent off with another batch expecting it to get back to the BBC eventually. |
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Sept 8, 2016 23:15:17 GMT
Phil's ability to visit and explore the archives is awesome, but has left an incorrect impression.
One can't simply "go" search an archive. There's a lot of negotiation and trust to build up before letting that happen. Phil got into Nigeria because he delivered on a promise and made his main goal the recovery of ALL film. We got 9 lovely episodes of Doctor Who and a couple Sky at Nights. Nigeria got their HISTORY preserved.
Perhaps there have been attempts to seek access to Singapore records, but unless there is something in it for them ... I doubt they'd let some foreigners from across the ocean stroll in ... BBC note or no.
Still, Phil has been remarkable in creating the relationships and networks needed to do just that. He won't point to a map, but perhaps he's been in Singapore already. That's something he'll have to tell us one day when he's ready.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 23:58:05 GMT
Phil's ability to visit and explore the archives is awesome, but has left an incorrect impression. One can't simply "go" search an archive. There's a lot of negotiation and trust to build up before letting that happen. Phil got into Nigeria because he delivered on a promise and made his main goal the recovery of ALL film. We got 9 lovely episodes of Doctor Who and a couple Sky at Nights. Nigeria got their HISTORY preserved. Perhaps there have been attempts to seek access to Singapore records, but unless there is something in it for them ... I doubt they'd let some foreigners from across the ocean stroll in ... BBC note or no. Still, Phil has been remarkable in creating the relationships and networks needed to do just that. He won't point to a map, but perhaps he's been in Singapore already. That's something he'll have to tell us one day when he's ready. He has mentioned a few places he's been to, but not Singapore. Let's hope there's some good news to come about that. I hope he or someone else will be the one the unravel the 'fate unknown' mystery. It's easy just to dismiss 'fate unknown' as either returned to the BBC or destroyed, but there's no more proof that the only remaining prints of POTD were destroyed any more than there is of the idea of them surviving to this day in RTS's archives. But only one final set of prints of The Power of the Daleks under the category 'fate-unknown', last known to have been in existence in 1972... What a hope  |
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Post by Robert Lia on Sept 9, 2016 0:00:02 GMT
Having personally visited Singapore in 1991 and 1995 while deployed to the 7th AOR (Area of Responsibility)with the US Navy I can tell you there are not a lot of places in Singapore for film prints to turn up. I can tell you that I did search the local markets and stores and such that sell stuff like old movies and stuff and found nothing). Mainly in the "old Quarter of Singapore" where they have open air markets and people selling all kinds of things and the international shopping district on Orchard Road and found zero 16mm film prints of any subject being offered anywhere for sale. Now in a video shop on Orchard Road I did find a store that on the left side was selling all kinds or pornographic videos and magazines and the other side was selling science fiction stuff. It amused me to see a BBC VHS (PAL) of "The Greatest Show in the Galaxy" on the shelf next to some hard core porno movies.
And no I did not put on my Tropical or Summer white U.S> Navy uniform and march up to the local TV station to ask to check there film cans for missing Doctor Who (even though I really wanted to)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2016 0:04:48 GMT
Having personally visited Singapore in 1991 and 1995 while deployed to the 7th AOR (Area of Responsibility)with the US Navy I can tell you there are not a lot of places in Singapore for film prints to turn up. I can tell you that I did search the local markets and stores and such that sell stuff like old movies and stuff and found nothing). Mainly in the "old Quarter of Singapore" where they have open air markets and people selling all kinds of things and the international shopping district on Orchard Road and found zero 16mm film prints of any subject being offered anywhere for sale. Now in a video shop on Orchard Road I did find a store that on the left side was selling all kinds or pornographic videos and magazines and the other side was selling science fiction stuff. It amused me to see a BBC VHS (PAL) of "The Greatest Show in the Galaxy" on the shelf next to some hard core porno movies. And no I did not put on my Tropical or Summer white U.S> Navy uniform and march up to the local TV station to ask to check there film cans for missing Doctor Who (even though I really wanted to) It's possible then that the RTS's archivists wouldn't have let anything go walkies from their vault to end up on market stalls. Unlike the BBC! William Russell recalled (in a DWM interview) seeing a BBC employee walking out with a trolley full of 16mm cans! Shame he didn't ask to have a browse! |
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Post by Robert Lia on Sept 9, 2016 0:11:26 GMT
Things are much easier to remove in the Asian country's as many of them are more relaxed about such things especially in the old days. Singapore is now one of the most modern country's in the South Pacific but until the mid 1950's it was as backward as some of the other country's.
Its hard to explain and harder to understand if you have not spent extended time in the south pacific theatre.
Now I took a taxi cab ride across the border into Johar Baru, Malaysia and considering Singapore and Malaysia used to be one country. Singapore is as modern and New York or London but Johar Baru was as backward as parts of the Philippines and Thailand.
And no I did not find any film prints for sale in Malaysia in the limited time I was there
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2016 3:11:07 GMT
According to Gallifreybase, the 4 film cans of The Ice Warriors, and the empty (blast the luck) film can of Fury from the Deep 6 may have been returns from Singapore... So, in that case, RTS may well have returned all their non-bicycled films to the BBC, and that could well be some sort of evidence that the last known copy of The Power of the Daleks was indeed returned to the UK and... destroyed.  Yet, there is hope beyond hope it seems, for, according to the 'omni-rumour', there are know to be two complete film sets of Power in existence, one set in a right s***-state and the other in far better condition!  However, Bleeding Cool cautions us that the owner of these films may be "a man playing up his own eccentricities for negotiation purposes, but at no point giving any real evidence that he had copies of the episodes in question."  "Yes, sir, I have two sets of The Power of the Daleks. Can I just take your bank sort code and account number so you can wire me the monies?" |
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Post by Scot Ferre on Sept 9, 2016 7:42:42 GMT
According to Gallifreybase, the 4 film cans of The Ice Warriors, and the empty (blast the luck) film can of Fury from the Deep 6 may have been returns from Singapore... So, in that case, RTS may well have returned all their non-bicycled films to the BBC, and that could well be some sort of evidence that the last known copy of The Power of the Daleks was indeed returned to the UK and... destroyed. Yet, there is hope beyond hope it seems, for, according to the 'omni-rumour', there are know to be two complete film sets of Power in existence, one set in a right s***-state and the other in far better condition! However, Bleeding Cool cautions us that the owner of these films may be "a man playing up his own eccentricities for negotiation purposes, but at no point giving any real evidence that he had copies of the episodes in question." "Yes, man, I have two sets of The Power of the Daleks, but the price is high..." I don't recall that rumor...? Two sets in existence. I find that hard to believe. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2016 7:56:43 GMT
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Sept 9, 2016 9:07:14 GMT
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 9, 2016 11:43:15 GMT
According to Gallifreybase, the 4 film cans of The Ice Warriors, and the empty (blast the luck) film can of Fury from the Deep 6 may have been returns from Singapore... So, in that case, RTS may well have returned all their non-bicycled films to the BBC, and that could well be some sort of evidence that the last known copy of The Power of the Daleks was indeed returned to the UK and... destroyed. I'm still holding out hope that at some point Fury 6 got put in the wrong can and something else got put in the Fury from the Deep can which was then sent to the BBC which would mean that Fury 6 could still be sitting in the Singapore archives in a mislabeled can. I suppose it's possible that they threw out the film and just reused the can, but I don't think they would have done that as (I think) only New Zealand and Australia ever junked episodes themselves. All other countries just sent their prints back to the BBC. Singapore may not have even known that the BBC intended to destroy them upon return and that they didn't have some other use for the films when they were returned. |
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However, Bleeding Cool cautions us that the owner of these films may be "a man playing up his own eccentricities for negotiation purposes, but at no point giving any real evidence that he had copies of the episodes in question." 
