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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 2, 2012 16:07:48 GMT
It seems to me that despite the costs of animation, there ought to be a way for animated reconstructions of 60s Who to turn a profit.
For example, animated episodes could be made available first as downloads, but in less than top resolution.
Then, after some time as passed, a DVD of the complete story could be released in top resolution and with extras such as commentary tracks, perhaps a Loose-Canon-style telesnap recon, etc.
I can understand why (except for a few animated reconstructions so far) the BBC delays in dealing with the missing episodes by releasing the available episodes first. They have the advantage of actually existing! Plus, there is always the hope that more of the missing episodes will gradually turn up. However, the rate of return is very gradual. It would be nice to see these released in a visual format in the span of a human lifetime or less. :-)
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 2, 2012 15:46:45 GMT
Actually, I'm only interested in winning over one additional convert, and that's my four-year-old son. He asked me the other day if we could watch something on television, and I asked him what he wanted to see. He said, "Something in color!"
(Drat! He figured out that I'm trying to get him accustomed to clunky old shows from decades ago!)
I agree with richardtipple though that I don't want anything to take away from animated versions of missing episodes being produced. Again, while not ideal, animated reconstructions can in some fashion fill in gaps in the series. I know that some don't care for how they look, but there are also some that do.
Children, in particular, find animation very appealing. Doctor Who was created as a family show that kids could enjoy too (at least from behind the sofa).
It would be wonderful if the Hartnell and Troughton eras could eventually be filled in visually in some fashion, and I think animation in the style of the two Invasion episodes (or the two Reign of Terror episodes) do about as well as can be expected short of actually recovering the original film prints. I'm very, very curious to see if more will be done in the future.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on May 31, 2012 17:37:14 GMT
In the past, I would not have been a proponent of colorizing 60's Doctor Who. I agree that it involves monkeying around with what doesn't need improving. However, I have also come to see that there is a certain percentage of the adult population who have an utter inability to appreciate anything filmed in black & white. In addition, many children are put off by black & white. It's just not what they are used to seeing. If after the 60's episodes are released in their original glorious monochrome they were then also to be released in colorized versions, I suspect they would also sell. And, as I see it, there would be some benefit in making these earliest shows somewhat more accessible to a certain segment of the viewing public (e.g., kids). Thus, even though it involves monkeying around with the original, I can see some point to doing it. (The same would perhaps apply to a small number of other family/kid-friendly shows from the black & white era, such as Supercar and Fireball XL-5, even though I'm personally content with all these shows exactly as they are.) Do you not think, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, that the chunk of the audience who are incapable of enjoying black and white (and they are out there in an abundance) would be incapable of appreciating Hartnell etc regardless of wether it is in colour or not? I think they would likely have just as big an issue with the speed of the editing, the pace, the plots and the lack of hackneyed soap opera elements which seem to be a requisite of much contemporary British television, remake who included. Actually, I indeed think that colorization would make the episodes far, far more approachable than they are in black & white for a certain segment of the population. Slowness of plot and similar concerns cause viewers potentially to lose interest over the course of watching an episode. However, lack of color is an immediate strike against a show. Some viewers will simply not watch anything in black & white. 'Tomb of the Cybermen' in black & white can cause some viewers not to give the show a chance at all. A colorized 'Tomb of the Cybermen' might be given a chance. Some of these viewers might then be pulled in by the plot. Yes, I think colorization could make a difference, and I think it would make enough of a difference that colorized versions could turn a profit. Color is also something that can be changed in a somewhat straightforward way (not to say that it is a small matter to colorize shows), whereas plot and dialogue and such really cannot be changed. Colorization would not turn these into entirely modern shows, but in my view it would broaden the viewership of these shows on DVD to a certain extent.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on May 30, 2012 1:24:04 GMT
In the past, I would not have been a proponent of colorizing 60's Doctor Who. I agree that it involves monkeying around with what doesn't need improving. However, I have also come to see that there is a certain percentage of the adult population who have an utter inability to appreciate anything filmed in black & white. In addition, many children are put off by black & white. It's just not what they are used to seeing.
If after the 60's episodes are released in their original glorious monochrome they were then also to be released in colorized versions, I suspect they would also sell. And, as I see it, there would be some benefit in making these earliest shows somewhat more accessible to a certain segment of the viewing public (e.g., kids). Thus, even though it involves monkeying around with the original, I can see some point to doing it.
(The same would perhaps apply to a small number of other family/kid-friendly shows from the black & white era, such as Supercar and Fireball XL-5, even though I'm personally content with all these shows exactly as they are.)
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Post by Douglas Wulf on May 16, 2012 15:47:09 GMT
Personally, I'm very, very, very interested in the animated reconstructions going forward.
Although I would certainly prefer the original episodes, there may be very few in existence left to recover, and the recovery rate has certainly been extremely slow. Since Doctor Who is episodic and a continuing storyline, it is annoying for parts of a story to be absent or for whole stories to be absent so that continuity has gaps (such as companions being with the Doctor but with their introduction missing or the First Doctor becoming the Second but with the actual transition missing).
Fortunately, we have the audio for every missing episode. When this audio is joined up with animation, the viewer still has not seen the episode, but at least has a clear understanding of approximately what would have been seen if the episode were still around for viewing. It's a big help to have not only the audio, but some moving visual to accompany it.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Feb 15, 2012 15:30:29 GMT
Or, if one starts a missing episode rumor, be sure to have a loud mouth American to blame when the rumor spreads. ;-)
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Feb 13, 2012 1:58:15 GMT
I'm still unsure about this - i'm still going to chat to him to see if i can get him to slip up or proof. To be honest regards of whether it is true or not, would any of you give away something for nothing to make others happy, I know I would just to show my contribution, this is a problem with film collectors if they paid a lot for something and get nothing for it. He thinks that the BBC should offer a reward. Lost episodes were returned by film collectors Gordon Hendry, Bruce Grenville, Francis Watson, and Terry Burnett. All seemed entirely delighted to make them available once they discovered that what they had were missing episodes. References are made to bitter, resentful people who are hoarding missing episodes and who are concerned about getting what they have coming to them, but we have yet to encounter such a person in reality.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jan 30, 2012 17:52:25 GMT
Keep in mind there are no leads that the shows are in germany.Only that that it is rumored they once saw them. I think we can call it a 'lead' in that it is something to follow up on, but, as you say, the lead is only that prints were apparently there once, not that there is evidence that they are still there. It just seems important to me that when people come forward with such leads on forms such as this, they should not be savaged. We want people to feel comfortable about coming forward with information, even if much of it won't result in any recovery of films. As irritating as it is when hoaxers trick people, it still seems more important to allow information to come in. It may feel good to tell those who post information, "You can't trick me! I know you're lying!" but we don't want to chase off those who come forward with valuable leads.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jan 18, 2012 16:26:57 GMT
Does anyone know if the print of 'The Lion' was kept in its original film can, or was it just a loose reel? As the story goes (at archive.whoniversity.co.uk/gateway/doctorwhorescuingthelion.html) “Even more remarkable is the colorful history behind the film print of The Lion. Research has revealed that this particular film print somehow managed to survive near-burial at a Wellington rubbish tip in 1975, thereby passing from one New Zealand film collector to another for the next quarter century, persevering through owners ignorant of its worth and poor storage conditions. As Scoones illustrates, "It is a remarkable story. It's survival is a combination of good luck and dedication on the part of the film collectors who originally rescued it from the dump." Had it been buried at that “Wellington rubbish tip,” would it have been in its can or would it have been a loose reel? If in its can, could there be more films in cans at that particular rubbish tip? Is the climate in Australia and/or New Zealand perhaps more conducive to slower decay of a film buried in a can than in the UK? However, note that these screen tests for 'Squad' date from 1981 (and were perhaps discarded after 1981), which is more recent than 1975, which is when 'The Lion' was in danger of being buried at the rubbish tip. If an archeological strategy is at all feasible, the sooner this avenue is pursued, the better, but it would be searching for needles in a rubbish heap! I'm amazed that this film was recovered in this fashion! The search could be narrowed considerably if there were some sort of records as to exactly where old film cans were sent, but this would clearly be a very, very difficult undertaking, especially if construction has taken place on top of these sites.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Dec 20, 2011 3:56:45 GMT
I hope that is the case and hope also they animate the moonbase story also As well as The Crusade. (And all the others besides)
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Dec 20, 2011 3:47:00 GMT
Yes, I wish people who report such obscure leads as this would not have the validity of the lead immediately debated. It almost goes without saying that if the prints were there, they would have been returned, etc. etc. However, occasionally such tiny bits of information pay off, so I think people should be encouraged to raise them! When the person offers something to base their lead on, such as an article, it is quite different than somebody saying "I have a friend who has a friend that has another friend that has a film collection." Although leads should be met with a certain amount of skepticism, I think it would be best to point them towards somebody currently in the field looking for lost material that can listen to the lead, and potentially follow up on it. If people get the idea that they are only wasting their time because of what they perceive as a bad reception for coming forward with their information, then we could end up losing good leads in the future. It is just a thought to ponder. I appreciate Maurice for coming forward with this. I apologize if any of my posts concerning the article were taken as being insulting in any way. Yes indeed, I appreciate Maurice coming forward too. He shouldn't be called 'Darren Gregory' immediately and his lead shouldn't just be dismissed quickly either. People who come forward with information should just be thanked politely! That should be done if we want others to do the same.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Dec 20, 2011 3:43:12 GMT
Yes, I wish people who report such obscure leads as this would not have the validity of the lead immediately debated. Why on earth not? It's only by asking questions and thinking about the potential source of the information that you can ascertain whether a supposed lead is worth following or not. The absolute worst route to take is just to take everything at face value and query nothing. Because we want people to feel welcome to come forward with information. I was not talking about being skeptical. I was talking about stating that leads are probably worthless because of the long passage of time. My comparison was to the information that resulted in the recovery of the Metropolis print. If reactions to that lead had been "No doubt that print would have been discarded long ago," which was obviously more probable than not, the lead would never have been checked. Sure, be skeptical, but people should feel welcome to come forward with leads.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Dec 20, 2011 3:37:10 GMT
A lead is a lead, asking some questions can't hurt. We just need someone who can speak German? I can speak German! :-)
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Dec 19, 2011 4:57:05 GMT
Indeed, I was really impressed with ep 2 of Underwater Menace. The print quality was v good for its age, which shows Terry certainly knows how to look after his collection. It was a rollicking good fun episode with a terrific performance from Pat, and Zaroff was wonderfully mad as I had hoped. I would suggest a possible bonus episode to be added to The Krotons when its released on dvd as the best place for it. Well, with two missing episodes of The Invasion animated and two missing episodes of The Reign of Terror animated, I'm hoping for a stand alone DVD for The Underwater Menace with episodes 1 and 4 animated. In that way, the entire story could be viewed in some form from start to finish. I think it might sell quite well too, given the publicity around the recovery of episode 2.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Dec 19, 2011 4:49:31 GMT
Im curious if these are the same prints found in the villers house. Its interesting that there were 4 and not 6. It makes me wonder if the other two were either in mislabeled cans or swiped. In the 80s and 90s, did they check the contents of cans before disposing or just the labels? im curious Please correct me if I'm wrong (again lol) but I seem to recall reading (I've still got the contemporary issue of DWM) that 1 or two of the cans that were found in that cupboard were labeled "Fury From The Deep"? Interesting gossip about these episodes anyhow, instead of debating the topic why doesn't (if it hasn't been done already) simply make a phone call and find out once and for all. Yes, I wish people who report such obscure leads as this would not have the validity of the lead immediately debated. It almost goes without saying that if the prints were there, they would have been returned, etc. etc. However, occasionally such tiny bits of information pay off, so I think people should be encouraged to raise them! For example, a projectionist in Buenos Aires had mentioned something about the run time of the Argentinian print of the film "Metropolis," and that tidbit of information resulted in a recovery of a nearly complete print of the film, lost for decades. That prints of the Ice Warriors were sent to Germany probably amounts to nothing, but there is a small chance that it could be valuable information. Or, if not this lead, another similar one might prove useful.
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