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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jul 2, 2013 13:53:31 GMT
I think we should try to bring the intensity of this rumour down a notch if we can.It's out there,there's nothing we can do.People in the industry are saying it's true,the BBC are denying it,fans who are usually cautious are saying it's true,all of fandom is up in arms.So what can we do when the facts tell us neither one thing or the other?Instead of getting on each others nerves why don't we call it a 'forecast'?Yes,just like the weather.What do we think is going to happen?Rather than being at logger-heads,each of us just say what WE THINK IS GOING to happen,depending on our interpretation of the facts.And if we're wrong or right,it doesn't matter because it was only a forecast.And whoever is right,well they can say 'I told you so!'. The BBC are not unambiguously denying it. This means that they may or may not be denying it. The statement was … “There are always rumours and speculation about Doctor Who missing episodes being discovered, however we cannot confirm any new finds.” The first clause is true. Yes, there will always exist rumors and speculation. That clause says nothing, but gives the implication that this rumor may also be merely rumor without explicitly claiming that. In the second clause, the BBC statement says that they 'cannot confirm' any new finds. This could only mean that for some reason they are not able to say anything at this time. The carefulness of this wording is itself suspicious. It implies denial but is not an explicit, unambiguous denial, such as: “The BBC nor any other person or persons of which the BBC are aware have not located nor recovered any of the 106 missing episodes of Doctor Who. However, the BBC continues to search.” Other 'denials' are similarly open to interpretation. For example, if someone says, “This is nonsense,” that could be taken to mean that the rumor is false, but it could also only mean that it is silly how all of fandom is up in arms, as you mentioned.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 24, 2013 5:16:33 GMT
16mm films may have been put in clay jars and hidden somewhere there in caves ... The Dead Sea Spools!
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 20, 2013 7:37:10 GMT
They confirmed they know of no negotiations, no missing material has been returned (well and truly debunking the rumours of three complete stories going back) and that there is nothing to this. We got this from several official sources yesterday, the Beeb, the RT and Paul for starters. The official release was that they can't confirm it ... and then someone harrased the poor BBC employee at the other end of the phone until they admitted they personally wasn't aware of anything. Isn't that like harrassing the switchboard operator at the White House until they admitted that they didn't know where Obama was born? If these are supposed to be definitive, strongly-worded denials, then whoever is writing them should be fired! Paul seemed to be saying that the situation is ridiculous. And is sick and tired of all the comments. And who wouldn't disagree with him. I have no idea of what, if anything, has been found. Could be no Who at all, but something else ... perhaps a 3rd Sky at Night? Clearly something is going down ... and I don't see any point speculating. Nor do I see any point trying to read stuff into the announcements that simply isn't there, and going on about giblets ... or whatever that word is ... Yes. What they are saying is “We can't say anything.” There's a good reason why. We should now just wait and see, although it is difficult to just wait.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 20, 2013 3:38:52 GMT
A fan press article that says nothing new. The only thing "missing" in this story is the evidence. Hopefully the coverage in RT and the retracted article at Wales Online is the last we'll see of this in the wider media. There is some issue, probably a legal issue, why nothing of any substance can be said at this time. However, the official statement was a non-committal one if you consider it carefully, so we can just wait and see. The matter will be clarified eventually.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 20, 2013 3:16:29 GMT
Go to the link on the top. It looks the rumor has finally come to an end sadly! Nothing has come to an end yet happily. This terse statement just says that they cannot confirm any new finds. That could mean that they are not in a legal or business position to issue confirmation of any new finds right now. “To confirm” is just “to say.” This could mean that they cannot say anything about any new finds. The sentence is compatible with there not being any new finds as well as compatible with there being new finds that they are not in a position to disclose at the moment. The terseness of the statement implies that they want to say as little as possible about the matter right now. When pressed, the spokeswoman came out with “I don't think so” and “Not as far as we know,” but either those were not deft non-committal answer or there is some explanation about who knows what about this.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 19, 2013 18:43:24 GMT
OK, just to be fully accurate. I actually posted at Ian Levine's website. I posted about African countries generally on 27 Dec 2006: 09:28:33 ... ianlevine.forumco.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1864&whichpage=1And then I posted about the 16 mm films in Zambia on 29 Dec 2006: 09:47:24 ... ianlevine.forumco.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1864&whichpage=2And then it was synthpopalooza who reposted that info here on 01 Jan 2007: 11:47 AM ... missingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/3593/missing-episodes-zambiaI knew that New Years 2007 had something to do with it! And then LanceM said that he had contacted Chrispin Hamooya of the National Archives of Zambia previously, so perhaps all this was know previous to any of my posts. It just seemed that the wheels started turning on the topic of Africa around that time, so I've been curious for a long time now about how it might have happened exactly. I also got several emails at that time from people in Africa and going to Africa who had read those posts, so I wondered if this might have connected up some dots. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me either way, but it's just been something I've wondered about. I'll be very curious to know more at some point.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 19, 2013 6:59:15 GMT
OK, so if we combine all rumors together, Ian Levine will need to revise his statement as follows: “There will always be 14 Doctor Who episodes missing! And, yes, you can quote me on that.” Assuming the 2 in Australia are different from the proposed 90. I have to say even being a complete optimist on these issues that even I'm not convinced. I was assuming that one of them would be 'Feast of Steven' just to be even beyond a complete optimist.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 19, 2013 6:47:45 GMT
If they have been back since 2011 it is fair to assume they have been checked. Paul was emphatic about this rumour "ridiculous" to quote. Again more debunking. Poor guy, I do not know how many more times he can say the same thing. There is nothing to be gained speculating on this big pile of pants. Now the rumour about 2 episodes from Australia, OTOH, may have something in it. This is what a source close to the BBC Wales Dr.who office has told me-unofficially,2 missing episodes found in Australia. OK, so if we combine all rumors together, Ian Levine will need to revise his statement as follows: “There will always be 14 Doctor Who episodes missing! And, yes, you can quote me on that.”
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 19, 2013 5:23:02 GMT
Interesting read douglaswulf, thanks for the repost to the thread. Seems a bit odd to me that we have Kickstarters for all kinds of (to me) silly Who-related malarkey, but this sort of thing - hunting for and preserving old footage - isn't so equipped. Not that I'm saying that Kickstarter or the like is some kind of gold standard of probity or that this is the best or only or right way to do this. Still, a lot of the quieter fans out there appreciate the difficult work involved in finding and restoring old material, be it Who or otherwise. For all I know, it's probably all done on a faintly remembered description of the smell of an oily rag, and quite aside from the challenges and conflicts that can often arise in any job, let alone this one. If there was or is some kind of international charitable fund to assist with this sort of thing, that hewed to solid standards of accountability and lawfulness, surely we'd all happily chip in on a regular basis, regardless of odds? There's smart diligent people working in this field, all over the world. Undoubtedly there's good reasons why this is a non-starter. Commercialization and ownership of finds, probably? But if there was some tangible way we spectators could help in sustaining the process, aside from keeping quiet when big stories like the one we've all heard of in recent days come out (irrespective of its veracity), that'd be great to learn of. Just buying the stuff when it's released seems a bit inadequate somehow! Maybe if this is a Solved Problem only a total noob like yours truly would ask, a Forum FAQ would avoid one looking a berk in his initial post? Thanks for your feedback! Yes, the idea of funding went nowhere and there may be good reasons why I couldn't be set up easily. However, it was an idea I wanted to suggest, and I'm sure others may have suggested it too at one time or another. At that time, I was trying to think of some possible solution because there were many 16 mm film prints apparently in Zambia, they were described as being damaged by vinegar syndrome with age, and I wasn't sure if somehow financing would be a big roadblock to checking them out.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 19, 2013 5:16:17 GMT
And I need to get to bed too. Perhaps I should count sheep … However, I'm too busy here counting chickens before they're hatched. :-) Ok I can't get any sleep now cause of this rumor. I'm just so excited right now. You could try watching 'The Space Museum.' (Just a joke, no one get upset! I like the story myself.)
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 19, 2013 5:09:23 GMT
Well i can sleep ok but luckily I'm not that excited you know. Like really I am BUT I wanted The Invasion, The Wheel In Space, and Mission To the Unknown to Exist. But at least only 2 episodes are missing from the Wheel In Space now. Cause he said only 2 episodes of the Wheel will not be returning but The Wheel In Space is a Six part story and only missing 4 episodes so. It almost complete now! If the rumors are true would be eligible for animation at least. Heck if the rumors are true they might as well animate The Daleks Master Plan since it would the only one left... I'm still skeptical. It still seems pretty unlikely they found that many lost episodes. I guess we'll find out soon enough... And I need to get to bed too. Perhaps I should count sheep … However, I'm too busy here counting chickens before they're hatched. :-)
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 19, 2013 5:07:12 GMT
So this was just recently at the end of May? Yes actaully Well, that's interesting. By the way, I think 'The Faceless Ones' might be an underrated story. I think it's a very good one.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 19, 2013 5:02:29 GMT
Might she be willing to offer him something else? Plenty of fans out there probably would. ;-) Look can we please stop talking about this. You heard this before it about The Hoaxer Darren Gregory having it and Jane Portman is the woman! Except no body believes me about this! OK, that guy. Nevermind then.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 19, 2013 5:01:32 GMT
I got to say something about this. I met Frazer Hines at a ComicPalooza Invention in Houston, Texas. I asked him if he knew anything about missing episodes turning up and he he heard that The Evil Of The Daleks was found! And that his favorite story would be The Faceless Ones. So this was just recently at the end of May?
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 19, 2013 4:42:56 GMT
Top Ten Missing Stories? Well, it only seems possible now have a top FIVE. My list is as follows ...
5. The Ice Warriors 4. The Wheel in Space 3. Mission to the Unknown 2. The Invasion 1. The Daleks' Masterplan
All we can do is just rearrange these now, right?
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