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Post by M J Fouldes on May 29, 2014 12:47:51 GMT
The book sadly is not fact ! As what should of, and what did happen may be very different ! But the book can only go by paperwork that might not be correct ! Yes I suppose I do always forget that it's not completely correct. I forget that as he's so thorough and interesting in the text, that if he told me the missing episodes of The Moonbase actually were sent to the Moon I would believe him!  Thanks MJ |
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Post by John Wall on May 29, 2014 13:10:24 GMT
What I find VERY strange, and which no one seems to have picked up on so far is this. Once the prints from Jos had been cleaned up and digitally transferred, they could have been given back to PM since the BBC now had a digital copy, in much the same way that Grenville got to keep The Lion once a copy had been made. If sold after digitizing, PM could have recouped some substantial costs and maybe even gone into profit depending on how hard the bidding war would have been. Seems inconceivable that he would miss out on such an opportunity. Huh, that is interesting, and somewhat shocking to me that this hasn't bubbled up before. I would think that would be part of the conspiracy theorists' canon by now, that Phil is holding out on Marco Polo et al because he wants the prints back when they're done and the BBC is saying no. Especially if someone could auction them, say, the night of the recovery announcement and two weeks before they hit iTunes. Not that I'd part with that kind of money but it would give you the chance to have the only known copy in the wild, if only for a week. If he'd asked for the prints back Auntie would have given them to him. |
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Post by Alex Dering on May 29, 2014 13:40:32 GMT
Several things:
1. Concerning the errata in "Wiped!" People who make dictionaries and maps introduce deliberate false information (called "fake streets" and several other terms). Why? So that someone else can't just come along, photocopy the lot and then sell it all for less. It is not impossible that Wiped! contains a few false details for just such a purpose.
2. In a similar vein, one device the governments use -- and have used for years -- consists of issuing several versions of the same information. A gets a "confidential" document with "Subject X purchased cheese, tobacco and drain cleaner at the supermarket." B gets "X bought tobacco, drain cleaner and cheese." C gets "X was seen buying drain cleaner, cheese and tobacco." When the reports come out in the press or TV, revealing the quoted material (either as a brief on-screen image or in the article), bang, there's the leak.
3. Recovery of missing episodes. I still suspect that Phil Morris has found a significant number of missing episodes (Doctor Who and other). The rumors consist (at least at the beginning) solely of reports of recovered DW episodes. Some details were quite specific, others, notsomuch. But no reports about Adam Adamant, United, etc.
Now put it all together. I think that PM found a substantial number of episodes (not just Doctor Who). I think he used Doctor Who as his fake street, mainly because it was the most popular program, the one most likely to get wide coverage: Gave List A to one person "I need you to work up a schedule for this on how to restore these. We want to stick to chronological order if possible, but we also don't want to be stuck with the duds at the end. So mix and match. We might put them out in pairs: Smugglers with Power of Daleks, for instances to force sales to stay high for all of them." Gives Lists B, C, and D (all lists having different descriptions of episodes) to other persons. And waits for the "reports." Now he knows who can't and can keep their lips zipped. The trustworthy can be given better information, the others can be shunted off with the really dull stuff, if used at all.
If you're one of those in the know who made the first cut, the first thing you're going to think is, "Okay. This list is also probably not 100%. So I'm gonna just keep my damn mouth closed. I need the work, and I'd much rather be the person who restored these things as opposed to the person who blabbed his way out of a small moment of history."
Lastly, I discard the whole "money" angle. The BBC can simply -- and very truthfully -- play the cultural angle. These programs are part of British history. Are they the First Folio? No. But are they culturally significant? Absolutely. That entitles the BBC or PM to get funding from a wide range of sources. And yes, "getting paid to run my tired ass all over the world" would qualify.
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Post by shellyharman67 on May 29, 2014 13:47:06 GMT
Several things: 1. Concerning the errata in "Wiped!" People who make dictionaries and maps introduce deliberate false information (called "fake streets" and several other terms). Why? So that someone else can't just come along, photocopy the lot and then sell it all for less. It is not impossible that Wiped! contains a few false details for just such a purpose. 2. In a similar vein, one device the governments use -- and have used for years -- consists of issuing several versions of the same information. A gets a "confidential" document with "Subject X purchased cheese, tobacco and drain cleaner at the supermarket." B gets "X bought tobacco, drain cleaner and cheese." C gets "X was seen buying drain cleaner, cheese and tobacco." When the reports come out in the press or TV, revealing the quoted material (either as a brief on-screen image or in the article), bang, there's the leak. 3. Recovery of missing episodes. I still suspect that Phil Morris has found a significant number of missing episodes (Doctor Who and other). The rumors consist (at least at the beginning) solely of reports of recovered DW episodes. Some details were quite specific, others, notsomuch. But no reports about Adam Adamant, United, etc. Now put it all together. I think that PM found a substantial number of episodes (not just Doctor Who). I think he used Doctor Who as his fake street, mainly because it was the most popular program, the one most likely to get wide coverage: Gave List A to one person "I need you to work up a schedule for this on how to restore these. We want to stick to chronological order if possible, but we also don't want to be stuck with the duds at the end. So mix and match. We might put them out in pairs: Smugglers with Power of Daleks, for instances to force sales to stay high for all of them." Gives Lists B, C, and D (all lists having different descriptions of episodes) to other persons. And waits for the "reports." Now he knows who can't and can keep their lips zipped. The trustworthy can be given better information, the others can be shunted off with the really dull stuff, if used at all. If you're one of those in the know who made the first cut, the first thing you're going to think is, "Okay. This list is also probably not 100%. So I'm gonna just keep my damn mouth closed. I need the work, and I'd much rather be the person who restored these things as opposed to the person who blabbed his way out of a small moment of history." Lastly, I discard the whole "money" angle. The BBC can simply -- and very truthfully -- play the cultural angle. These programs are part of British history. Are they the First Folio? No. But are they culturally significant? Absolutely. That entitles the BBC or PM to get funding from a wide range of sources. And yes, "getting paid to run my tired ass all over the world" would qualify. Well put. Although as usual there will be the NO camp on here ! There is a money angle on here simply because the bbc dont wont to pay any more than they want too ! I would not, and neither would anyone else ! They have budgets, not an open ended cheque book  |
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Post by Simon Jailler on May 29, 2014 14:18:32 GMT
Several things: 1. Concerning the errata in "Wiped!" People who make dictionaries and maps introduce deliberate false information (called "fake streets" and several other terms). Why? So that someone else can't just come along, photocopy the lot and then sell it all for less. It is not impossible that Wiped! contains a few false details for just such a purpose. 2. In a similar vein, one device the governments use -- and have used for years -- consists of issuing several versions of the same information. A gets a "confidential" document with "Subject X purchased cheese, tobacco and drain cleaner at the supermarket." B gets "X bought tobacco, drain cleaner and cheese." C gets "X was seen buying drain cleaner, cheese and tobacco." When the reports come out in the press or TV, revealing the quoted material (either as a brief on-screen image or in the article), bang, there's the leak. 3. Recovery of missing episodes. I still suspect that Phil Morris has found a significant number of missing episodes (Doctor Who and other). The rumors consist (at least at the beginning) solely of reports of recovered DW episodes. Some details were quite specific, others, notsomuch. But no reports about Adam Adamant, United, etc. Now put it all together. I think that PM found a substantial number of episodes (not just Doctor Who). I think he used Doctor Who as his fake street, mainly because it was the most popular program, the one most likely to get wide coverage: Gave List A to one person "I need you to work up a schedule for this on how to restore these. We want to stick to chronological order if possible, but we also don't want to be stuck with the duds at the end. So mix and match. We might put them out in pairs: Smugglers with Power of Daleks, for instances to force sales to stay high for all of them." Gives Lists B, C, and D (all lists having different descriptions of episodes) to other persons. And waits for the "reports." Now he knows who can't and can keep their lips zipped. The trustworthy can be given better information, the others can be shunted off with the really dull stuff, if used at all. If you're one of those in the know who made the first cut, the first thing you're going to think is, "Okay. This list is also probably not 100%. So I'm gonna just keep my damn mouth closed. I need the work, and I'd much rather be the person who restored these things as opposed to the person who blabbed his way out of a small moment of history." Lastly, I discard the whole "money" angle. The BBC can simply -- and very truthfully -- play the cultural angle. These programs are part of British history. Are they the First Folio? No. But are they culturally significant? Absolutely. That entitles the BBC or PM to get funding from a wide range of sources. And yes, "getting paid to run my tired ass all over the world" would qualify. I'll be impressed if you get a "Like" from Richard Molesworth. I suspect like you that the leaky parts of the operation have been fixed. |
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Post by John Wall on May 29, 2014 15:41:55 GMT
Several things: 1. Concerning the errata in "Wiped!" People who make dictionaries and maps introduce deliberate false information (called "fake streets" and several other terms). Why? So that someone else can't just come along, photocopy the lot and then sell it all for less. It is not impossible that Wiped! contains a few false details for just such a purpose. 2. In a similar vein, one device the governments use -- and have used for years -- consists of issuing several versions of the same information. A gets a "confidential" document with "Subject X purchased cheese, tobacco and drain cleaner at the supermarket." B gets "X bought tobacco, drain cleaner and cheese." C gets "X was seen buying drain cleaner, cheese and tobacco." When the reports come out in the press or TV, revealing the quoted material (either as a brief on-screen image or in the article), bang, there's the leak. 3. Recovery of missing episodes. I still suspect that Phil Morris has found a significant number of missing episodes (Doctor Who and other). The rumors consist (at least at the beginning) solely of reports of recovered DW episodes. Some details were quite specific, others, notsomuch. But no reports about Adam Adamant, United, etc. Now put it all together. I think that PM found a substantial number of episodes (not just Doctor Who). I think he used Doctor Who as his fake street, mainly because it was the most popular program, the one most likely to get wide coverage: Gave List A to one person "I need you to work up a schedule for this on how to restore these. We want to stick to chronological order if possible, but we also don't want to be stuck with the duds at the end. So mix and match. We might put them out in pairs: Smugglers with Power of Daleks, for instances to force sales to stay high for all of them." Gives Lists B, C, and D (all lists having different descriptions of episodes) to other persons. And waits for the "reports." Now he knows who can't and can keep their lips zipped. The trustworthy can be given better information, the others can be shunted off with the really dull stuff, if used at all. If you're one of those in the know who made the first cut, the first thing you're going to think is, "Okay. This list is also probably not 100%. So I'm gonna just keep my damn mouth closed. I need the work, and I'd much rather be the person who restored these things as opposed to the person who blabbed his way out of a small moment of history." Lastly, I discard the whole "money" angle. The BBC can simply -- and very truthfully -- play the cultural angle. These programs are part of British history. Are they the First Folio? No. But are they culturally significant? Absolutely. That entitles the BBC or PM to get funding from a wide range of sources. And yes, "getting paid to run my tired ass all over the world" would qualify. This cloak and dagger stuff is rather old hat now. If PM's not in it for the money - which I never believed and the fact that he didn't want to hang onto the prints to sell them merely reinforces - there is no reason for anything not to have been announced/released now. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 16:19:55 GMT
The BBC can simply -- and very truthfully -- play the cultural angle. These programs are part of British history. There's a first for everything, I suppose! |
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Post by Alex Dering on May 29, 2014 16:44:53 GMT
And ABSOLUTELY the cloak-and-dagger stuff IS old hat now. I just want to know. One way or the other. That means a reveal of missing footage OR Phil Morris just posting a single declarative paragraph on his site. Then I can go back to sighing at the walls.
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Post by John Wall on May 29, 2014 16:56:18 GMT
Philip Morris is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. It's been said elsewhere that the search will never be over while there are still any missing episodes and, AFAIK, he's still looking.
The only reason for keeping quiet is if it might prejudice another recovery. Remember UM2 and Airlock - weeks later it turned out that the collector had another. Going public would have resulted in the poor chap being deluged with questions and possibly telling people to **** off.
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Post by shellyharman67 on May 29, 2014 16:56:45 GMT
And ABSOLUTELY the cloak-and-dagger stuff IS old hat now. I just want to know. One way or the other. That means a reveal of missing footage OR Phil Morris just posting a single declarative paragraph on his site. Then I can go back to sighing at the walls. This guys does not rush anything ! Except last two, which by accounts he was not happy rush releasing them ! For the 50th ! |
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Post by shellyharman67 on May 29, 2014 16:59:45 GMT
Philip Morris is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. It's been said elsewhere that the search will never be over while there are still any missing episodes and, AFAIK, he's still looking. The only reason for keeping quiet is if it might prejudice another recovery. Remember UM2 and Airlock - weeks later it turned out that the collector had another. Going public would have resulted in the poor chap being deluged with questions and possibly telling people to **** off. True john ! Thats a fair point. Trouble is how long is enough ? If some ended up in peoples hands, I.E skip lorry man taking a few on way to landfill ECT ! Then the search is how long is a piece of string ! |
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Post by John Wall on May 29, 2014 17:03:55 GMT
Philip Morris is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. It's been said elsewhere that the search will never be over while there are still any missing episodes and, AFAIK, he's still looking. The only reason for keeping quiet is if it might prejudice another recovery. Remember UM2 and Airlock - weeks later it turned out that the collector had another. Going public would have resulted in the poor chap being deluged with questions and possibly telling people to **** off. True john ! Thats a fair point. Trouble is how long is enough ? If some ended up in peoples hands, I.E skip lorry man taking a few on way to landfill ECT ! Then the search is how long is a piece of string ! If there isn't anything to announce there can't be an announcement ! Eventually we may get a list of the places that have been checked. I don't think we have any definite information as to where the Morecambe and Wise and the two Sky at Nights were found. |
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Post by johnforbes on May 29, 2014 17:42:44 GMT
What I find VERY strange, and which no one seems to have picked up on so far is this. Once the prints from Jos had been cleaned up and digitally transferred, they could have been given back to PM since the BBC now had a digital copy, in much the same way that Grenville got to keep The Lion once a copy had been made. But, they don't seem to have been, afaik the prints remain with the BBC. Those films would have made a crap lot of money @ auction given their one of a kind rarity, EOTW for being complete, and a Troughton, and WoF for being a classic albeit missing ep 3. If sold after digitizing, PM could have recouped some substantial costs and maybe even gone into profit depending on how hard the bidding war would have been. Seems inconceivable that he would miss out on such an opportunity. IIRC Bruce Grenville was very disapointed at the time whith the money "the Lion" fetched at auction , it was then resold in the states for a little bit more but generally recovered prints dont sell that well at auction , and i personally doubt ever will. i think it says a lot about Phill that he was happy to give the prints back and not seek profit from any online sale The difference between "The Lion" and EOTW, is that EOTW is complete, and a Troughton, from sn 5 no less. That is an absolutely massive, massive, massive difference. It's like one guy parking his brand new Lamborghini in the driveway feeling like nothing is going to touch him, then his next door neighbour arrives and parks his recently acquired stealth fighter. If a dupe, can fetch 700 gpb at auction. I really could see singular eps of a complete sn 5 Troughton fetching up to 10k apiece (50k for the lot). And a complete WoF if ep 3 had been there, fetching even more due to its historical importance. |
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Post by johnforbes on May 29, 2014 17:50:04 GMT
True john ! Thats a fair point. Trouble is how long is enough ? If some ended up in peoples hands, I.E skip lorry man taking a few on way to landfill ECT ! Then the search is how long is a piece of string ! If there isn't anything to announce there can't be an announcement ! Eventually we may get a list of the places that have been checked. I don't think we have any definite information as to where the Morecambe and Wise and the two Sky at Nights were found. From what is known, MW is almost certainly from Zambia, since it is almost tar now and because we know that the state of the archives there were as such. The SAN's otoh, in very good condition are almost certainly from Jos where the DW's were also stored in favourable conditions too. |
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Post by johnforbes on May 29, 2014 17:55:13 GMT
@ Alex Derring
Don't want to quote your whole post, but, "duds at the end".
Sorry, imo, there is NO such thing as a "dud at the end" if we are talking about another lost DW being completed. ANY previously lost story either in full or parts, getting completed, would sell quite a bit and very quickly on itunes and DVD, it REALLY wouldn't matter which story it was.
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