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Post by davemachin on Dec 10, 2009 17:58:06 GMT
Bob did record obscurities as well, Paul. I can think of quite a few. His tapes also included some Pan's People material from 1970, some has found it's way on to the web. So that was the reason I suggested some of these clips may come from him.
Dave
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Post by Paul Dorf on Dec 10, 2009 20:26:30 GMT
thanks dave yes, a couple of early pans bits were on the list i saw for sure. what obscure stuff did bob save if you remember?
i heard that it wasnt just him saving stuff too, & totp incl pans/totty bits were favs to copy off before wiping by others in the vt dungeon. big question is what else is out there, is there more of those two 1970 editions that one guy posted bits of?? love to see those!
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Post by davemachin on Dec 11, 2009 10:59:44 GMT
There's too much to remember without a list. He did seem to keep the most odd choices sometimes. Very glad he did though!
Dave
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 20, 2009 23:49:47 GMT
Jean Genie - TOTP's 4.1.73 footage was shown as a question or end of show segment clip in the first or second series of Pop Quiz circa 1981 or 82. Where is the video for this clip? I believe Mike Read's videos were stolen at some point from his car? Is this true? There were other TOTP's clips shown that appeared to be unusual on this show. Anyone tape the 1st or 2nd series of Pop Quiz? Do they still exist in the BBC library? The audio was recorded by using a mic in front of the tv stylee  The performance was a live vocal (Complete with harmonica) recording of the song and not a mimed playback version. Not bother telling me this isn't true as I saw it with my own eyes. Well, it's interesting you mention this topic, Tim, as it's long been a mystery i've wanted to get to the bottom of. I've related the following story before but it's worth repeating now, particularly as there is a current angle to this one as well, due to recent discoveries: I can clearly recall watching (again, with my own eyes) an early Pop Quiz that featured a Pink Floyd clip on b/w t/r with the group looking exactly the same as they do in the See Emily Play appearance (mirrored backdrop etc.) Now, I knew even then that this was from TOTP as i've had photos of it since the '70s. But...at the time of the early '80s, I had no knowledge of BBC wipings and therefore had no reason to think this was missing from the archives. Consequently I didn't take undue notice! Since then, the clip has never re-appeared on anything and no one I have spoken to about it can recall anything. So you do begin to wonder if you imagined the whole thing! Except I know I didn't. I have heard the same thing relating to the Jean Genie clip too and can only deduce that some items screened on Pop Quiz came from Mike Read's personal collection. If some of these items later went missing then that could explain why they haven't been seen again. The only way of verifying would be to check a whole run of Pop Quiz off-airs. I really would like to get to the bottom of this one. To support that; I was discussing this with a friend again. He said that someone; a Keith; did report back a clip of Pink Floyd performing the song on 'Pop Quiz' which others missed. He was not that reliable apparently; but then someone else came in and said that they thought they had also seen a fleeting clip that fitted with the still with Barrett on a floor cushion with the mirrored back drop. Whetehr or not it was that same tape that has surfaced that had been copied out and lay with Mike Read until the reported break in? That's probably a matter just to ponder. The important thing is that the tape of the clip has been discovered. I'm sure there is more material out there but whether it will ever surface is another question. |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 20, 2009 23:59:56 GMT
No idea Dave, when do you think you saw it? If it was from Hammersmith then it'd be a very unsual showing as Jeff Beck plays guitar and its been cut (by Becks request apparently) from the official concert release. One must remember that the 4/1/73 performance was part live, and also that Mick Rocks promo which was also shown on TOTPs does contain a hell of a lot of concert footage. Looking here www.bowiewonderworld.com/features/topofthepops.htm you can see there was no Jean Genie on TOTPs after 11/1/73 (which rules out Hammersmith 3/7/73). I also wonder why this last one was only disc and not a repeat of his studio performance from the week before? Perhaps its just wrong....or they'd lost it already? Dave is possibly correct as his recollection of such a clip is similar to mine (although he's probably getting mixed up about when he actually saw it). The 14/12/72 edition of TOTP featured a promo of some kind for Jean Geanie. I can remember seeing a clip around then in my mind's eye as being concert-type footage; Bowie on a stage looking Ziggy style. Not sure if it was actually live or mocked up but it was not a TOTP studio-style VT appearance and was on at the time it went into the charts (late '72), rather than something filmed at the Hammersmith show (which was later anyway, yes?). I don't recall any promo on TOTP except the Mick Rock promo which definitely ran; as well as that for 'John I'm only'. The latter I seem to recall liking but only being briefly in the charts. For the former I definitely recall a Pans People performance. So far as I recall this began with a shot of one girl only; with the shot starting on a pair of PVC platform boots then panning up her body to the face. There was a dark polished stage and black background typical of the TOTP backdrop that period. The girl was made up either as an Alien or a typical freaky Andy Warhol crowd type; with an Afro style wig and I think silver lipstick. She had a pair of large round Sunglasses with light coloured frames and I think hot pants or a tight glitter suit with waistcoat style jacket. She may possibly have had similar gear to 'Monster Mash' where one of the girls has green face paint; but I can't remember. The other members may have then appeared as one of the routines the girls regularly used was to stand in a line behind each other then walk off one by one. They also did this in another missing performance for 'ARMED AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS'. In that one I may have seen it on a colour set as I recall light blue Gangster suits and brimmed hats. The Blonde member had a fake machine gun which looked like a light coloured wooden prop (c '73). |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 21, 2009 0:03:58 GMT
on that 2nd totp airing of 'jean genie' on 11th jan maybe it was just used on the chart rundown or with the credits? does seem weird not repeating the live clip. also on the bww site it says disc for some totp like 'sorrow' even though there is/was a video made for that. maybe it wasnt ready then. also for 'fame' & rebel rebel' they used pans people, both wiped but on flick colbys tape. 1 of pans is also on the replacement 'john im only dancing' gasworks video which isnt wiped & was used instead of the orig vid which was banned till years later. i guess 'the laughing gnome' vid from 73 is gone too? cant see any info about that. & there doesnt seem to be any early bits from foreign archives like zdf or avro apart from 'rebel rebel' on toppop in 74. There are a couple of early clips from European shows, Paul. Space Oddity is on Hits A GoGo from 1969 black and white plus there is a colour clip from a few months later of it from the Ivor Novello Awards programme. I don't know of much else from the 1970 to 1971 time though. There is a 1970 Scottish tv programme called Looking Glass Murders (or something like that) with Bowie doing his mime stuff. Then there seems a gap til Starman. Dave Not a complete gap as there is also a Bowie 'audition to camera' in Andy warhols Interviews film. Think this is B+W. It isn't specifically a TV item, no, but in terms of pop history it offers a glimpse of Bowie with the shoulder length hair and floppy hat he had for the 'HUNKY DORY' LP. Great album! |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 21, 2009 0:08:16 GMT
I know this isn't what everyone is talking about but I think I can remember a Bowie clip on Top of the Pops of Jean Genie which seemed to be from a live concert. Did a clip like this get shown? If so i'm guessing it was from the Hammersmith Ziggy show. Dave I don't remember that one but do recall for the re- release of SPACE ODDITY the Mick Rock promo film. This is the one where Bowie is in his Ziggy leotard and red hair with acoustic guitar and a green sine wave pulsates across the screen. It's highly likely they had a Hammersmith clip for 'SORROW' when that came out they definitely had something on. |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 21, 2009 0:14:00 GMT
It's a shame INFAX is no longer online so we can look for ourselves. Wasn't Stealers Wheel's "Stuck In The Middle..." another TOTP appearance that was rumoured to have been shown? I'm pretty definite I saw that one around 1983. Whether it was on POP QUIZ, I don't know. But it was in colour. The camera pans across and there were, as I recall a group of three with acoustic guitars. gerry Rafferty in the middle. This was DEFINITELY not my memory from the 70s. Important one too as all the existing material I've seen only includes Joe Egan, no Rafferty in sight. I'm prompted to recall some kind of live film clip with rafferty on OGWT though. I did look through INFAX when avaialble on this one and there was no match for the item, |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 21, 2009 0:21:22 GMT
Pretty sure i saw the promo video for Space Oddity in 1969 on TOTP I recall seeing that 'Love you till Tuesday' promo clip around that period. Seems likely as far as I can recall, discussing this a while back that it was shown on Thames' TODAY which regularly featured pop. maybe that's what you were thinking of. Not doubting what you say though as when I saw it again I thought I had seen it on TOTP too. Modern audiences would not realise that at that time it was a bit of a side line record. Bowie was not recognised in a big way really till 'STARMAN'; which is the hit record that really got me interested in pop music again as a kid. I found it really exciting and luckily the clip I recall did survive. Definitely don't recall Bowies appearance on LIFT OFF for the hit unfortunately. |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 21, 2009 0:28:12 GMT
Slade ll were on the bill with us in Belgium this weekend so I took the opportunity to ask Dave Hill for any memories he had. He said that after they'd performed 'Get Down And Get With It' on Top Of The Pops the director arranged to film the band larking around at a Power Station to show the next time they were on. (I thought he said Battersea but it seems I was mistaken. I guess sometimes you hear what you want to hear, and we were in the hotel bar  . That might give a little insight into how production of the show in 1971 was occasionally done ahead of schedule. A little gamble by the BBC. If the record had gone down the chart, they wouldn't have used the film. Dave also said the he would always try and wow the rest of band with his outfits on the show. He'd never let the other guys see his outfits then, for maximum impact, he would change in the dressing room lavatory and make a big entrance purely for the rest of the band when they were called to the sound stage. He also mentioned there was an occasion Noddy Holder decided he was going to wear a Kaftan robe on the show ( it sounded like kaftan to me). Anyway, Chas Chandler took one look and told him to change as "everyone would think they'd gone all hippy". By the way, there were 14,000 at the Sportspalais, Antwerp Saturday night and, I have to say, Slade ll absolutely tore the roof off the venue. Luckily largely due to the good old germans who were terrific fans of the British pop bands; Slade are well represented in the Archives. They did appear in the 'new release' spot on TOTP in Jan 1971 for SHAPE OF THINGS TO COME, but this song was not a hit. There are various versions of GET DOWN AND GET WITH IT in British Archives including the Roger Whittaker show. I was interested to see discussion on the Bob Monkhouse collection about a Slade edition of TOTP. I recalled an appearance for COZ I LUV YOU where Jimmy Lea had a transparent perspex violin; but the one that surfaced on the 'GLAM ROCK' videos showed a normal wooden one. This is the one where my Mum exclaimed 'Good LORD!' when the violin riff came on and Noddy Holder sang in a shouting voice. It was shocking at the time. I think I was laughing though. |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 21, 2009 0:32:04 GMT
I'd hardly call a NUMBER THREE HIT a flop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can remember not understanding the lyric when it came out. I thought he was singing 'Jing Jingie' as in jingle bells which didn't help when I eventually bought the single! I only did so as I started collecting his records, but I remember thinking it was a disappointing song compared to 'John I'm only dancing' which is with 'Life on Mars' my all time favourite Bowie single. I can also recall that the record shop I went to buy this in 'REEDS' said 'John I'm only' had been deleted by the Jean Genie period and they had to order a copy for me! |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 21, 2009 0:35:58 GMT
mustve been a bad few weeks, the single made little compared to some of the others even though it was in the charts about 2 months, my mate knows, he used to work for rca sales in the 70s. maybe cos it wasnt a hit in europe or the states. I could understand the record might not have been as big a hit as we think; but recall that a girl who lived upstairs had said 'I don't like David Bowie but I think that's a good record'; and sang a bit of it. I would guess at that stage Bowie got the PR regardless of how the singles did. Don't recall the cover of 'Sorrow' being a big hit at the time, maybe I'm wrong? |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 21, 2009 0:46:19 GMT
I think that's just an audio taped by a viewer, Lance. I don't see it as any indication the video is out there. Rumours have persisted for Bowie fans for a long while but I don't think this is evidence, which is a shame. Dave Thats right, its home taped audio only. Incidently I was saddened to note when perusing the tracklisting of those eBay tapes posted by Lance recently, that although the guy "may" have taped some of the 4/1/73 TOTP (tape 33) he neglected to record the lost Jean Genie performance from that show  On a lighter note, a little more on the Drive in Saturday promo here "Rumoured to exist is an unscreened and unreleased promo of "Drive In Saturday" filmed by Mick Rock which features David Bowie performing in a red plastic jump suit. It reportedly exists only among hard-core collectors. If you know anything more about this film please let me know."
www.5years.com/dispromo.htmAnd yet another unscreened Mick Rock promo, this time Rock n Roll Suicide, which aparently does exist. You can see a still on the link. "A short (4:18 minute) colour film exists which shows many different overlapping images of Bowie performing at Ziggy Stardust live concerts in both 1972 and 1973 with many backstage segments. The film uses the live version of "Rock N Roll Suicide" from the Hammersmith Odeon 3 July 1973 concert as the backing.
This excellent, but unreleased, film was shot by Mick Rock as a promotional video for the 1974 single "Rock n Roll Suicide"."
www.5years.com/rnrsvid.htmLastly, this emerged recently. A TOTPs promo for Life On Mars? Aparently from a July 73 edition. Footage culled from the Nationwide Winter Gardens concert report in May 73, and from outside the Hammersmith Odeon in July 73. Great shots of Lulu and Tony Curtis arriving. I presume this was from a BBC news report or some such and not Pennebaker's footage. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxNr2jvo5PwI thought that was the NATIONWIDE article I recall. For LIFE ON MARS I do recall parts of a TOTP film which was basically a compliation of news footage like the stock one of the Saturn IV taking off you always get; and footage of the H bomb exploding. |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 21, 2009 0:54:48 GMT
on that 2nd totp airing of 'jean genie' on 11th jan maybe it was just used on the chart rundown or with the credits? does seem weird not repeating the live clip. also on the bww site it says disc for some totp like 'sorrow' even though there is/was a video made for that. maybe it wasnt ready then. also for 'fame' & rebel rebel' they used pans people, both wiped but on flick colbys tape. 1 of pans is also on the replacement 'john im only dancing' gasworks video which isnt wiped & was used instead of the orig vid which was banned till years later. i guess 'the laughing gnome' vid from 73 is gone too? cant see any info about that. & there doesnt seem to be any early bits from foreign archives like zdf or avro apart from 'rebel rebel' on toppop in 74. Are you thinking of the Sorrow performance in the white suit singing to Amanda Lear Paul? Thats from the NBC Midnight Special so not nessercarily available to the beeb at the time, unsure if it'd had actually aired in the States by then, think it was close. Would like to see that John I'm Only Dancing, I've visions of those Chopper books in my head. Regards the Laughing Gnome I'd thought whilst browsing on here in the past I've seen it mentioned that the episode existed in private hands or something? But mabbe I've got that confused with the John I'm Only Dancing one? I remember the Laughing Gnome promo, pretty similar to the kind of thing you'd see on that early 80's DLT video show where they made cheap weirdy videos for 50's and 60's hits acting out the lyrics etc. Dare say it'd be pretty spooky looking now actually. Its a mystery why no repeat JG performance. Did that happen much? I thought Laurence Piper - or someone - had some paperwork indicating an American clip WAS used for 'Sorrow' on TOTP at the time. |
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 21, 2009 1:01:54 GMT
It's been mentioned elsewhere that Flick didn't want to return copies to the BBC specifically because she was so annoyed that so many appearances had been wiped. yes but why the suprised annoyance 15 years later when wiping was standard practice at the time. if anything the fact many were wiped is even more reason to ensure their preservation & return them, not that anyones bothered now prob. from the records it seems pans also performed to sorrow & jean genie. also that 'cherry' tape was copied from masters & does exist in broadcast quality. a clip of love theme sourced from it surfaced over 2 years ago as seen here, www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFBfj6xZDCwIt's highly likely that she didn't know about the wipings until afterwards, though. I recall interviews with Pat Throughton and Debbie Watling in the '80s indicated they were unaware of the release of their DR WHO tapes until recent to those interviews. It may have been standard practice within the various TV stations (Europe also); to recycle but obviously the Departments wiped as and when needed. It would have been impractical to inform everyone who worked on the shows. Then again I would be pretty annoyed if I had assumed something I worked on and was proud of had been wiped off; in fact as a musician I have been in the past. But that's life. |
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The performance was a live vocal (Complete with harmonica) recording of the song and not a mimed playback version.
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