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Post by andyeves on Oct 13, 2023 16:08:25 GMT
I don’t think anyone reasonable will blame him for the loss of WOF3, and that it was purely due to naivety. I’ll be a more charitable than you about his over-optimistic comments in that I accept that this was also down to his naivety, not realising how DW fandom works … unaware that he’d only need to wipe his arse for fanatics to take that as a hint that he’d found another missing episode. Well each to their own Andy. That said, a fitting, illustrative microcosm of Phil’s dubious antics post 2013 can be found in an old social media post of his in which he, like many other fans, marked the annual anniversary of ‘Who’s very first transmission back in 1963. Naturally everyone else posted a picture of the 1st Doctor, Barbara, Ian and Susan as one would expect but not Phil. No, he decided to upload a telesnap from the currently missing episode 3 from Evil of the Daleks instead …Personally I don’t ascribe wilful mischief like that to mere naivety tbh… Maybe I am being too charitable but regardless, no one should assume that it is just a few gullible, over-zealous & easily excitable fans that have read too much into Phil's comments over the years. There's that notorious Steve Roberts interview during which he states that it is his belief that Phil has definitely (yes, definitely) recovered Marco Polo ... based solely on the positive nature of Phil's comments. |
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Post by andyparting on Oct 13, 2023 17:11:51 GMT
At what min mark is this WOF3 take, please? Around 41 minute mark. Thank you very much, Andy. I still take Phil at his word. He is after all, boots-on-the-ground, his silence over what he has further recovered (since the discovery of no less than 12 episodes in Jos - 10 of which were MEs) is due to the 'apparent' theft of WOF3. Phil has said this is the reason himself, and I think this is evidence enough, the silence. I believe Phillip Morris is the saviour of missing episodes, 'God's man for the job' (if you like) in terms of bringing back what we always sensed, deep down, since 1981 would come back. Let's not forget that 'something else' went missing alongside WOF3 - which interestingly, Phil has never mentioned what this is. Many believe this is Marco Polo, due to the fact it was scheduled for release alongside EOTW and WOF - albeit reported by Bleeding Cool in August 2013 - and it was rumoured, or thought, on many a forum in June 2013, that 19 episodes had been found. 12 eps plus MP's 7 = 19. BTW I love Tim's podcasts - my favourite being the one which gave me the most ME hope was when he spoke to the authors of the long-outstanding book, Chasing Shadows. In it they mentioned that they had spoken to people who worked for TIEA, who had witnessed missing Doctor Who episodes coming back into the company, and that one would "be mad to believe" which episode titles they saw. There are exciting times to come IMHO, not only for Doctor Who fans. As Phil himself once said on Facebook, 'And feel fans of all lost television will be happy with the outcome.' All lost TV! Wow, just wow... |
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Post by andyparting on Oct 13, 2023 17:14:59 GMT
The private collector wanted the one that has the Brigader's first apperance. Even Philip agrees that's the most likely reason why WoF 3 was taken. Ah yes I remember that particular Web3 theory, and sadly it smacks of deluded fan ‘logic’. Far more likely is the alternative explanation: the station employee was sufficiently curious, suspected there might be some monetary value attached to these neglected film cans and so randomly light-fingered one of them for further investigation… On a related note and, keeping with the contentious ‘stolen to order’ theme, didn’t Phil dramatically claim at one point that he knew where Web3 had ended up and threatened to publicly name the new owner if he didn’t play ball? He (Phil) never did of course (assuming I haven’t misremembered - understandable as Phil used to say a helluva lot back then, much of it contradictory to previous accounts/statements  )…. I personally think it's only contradictory in as much as we're reading too much into what he says. We all contradict ourselves over time in our accounts of things. Why do we put PM on a special pedestal, like he's god?  |
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Post by andyparting on Oct 13, 2023 17:19:01 GMT
Ah yes I remember that particular Web3 theory, and sadly it smacks of deluded fan ‘logic’. Far more likely is the alternative explanation: the station employee was sufficiently curious, suspected there might be some monetary value attached to these neglected film cans and so randomly light-fingered one of them for further investigation… On a related note and, keeping with the contentious ‘stolen to order’ theme, didn’t Phil dramatically claim at one point that he knew where Web3 had ended up and threatened to publicly name the new owner if he didn’t play ball? He (Phil) never did of course (assuming I haven’t misremembered - understandable as Phil used to say a helluva lot back then, much of it contradictory to previous accounts/statements )…. Starburst Aug 2016: Phil said about WOF3 " But we’re on top of that. That is not going to stay missing for too long. So … we are working on that." If taken at face value, this would imply that he not only knew who has it but was close to securing it. I now believe he was simply sending a strong message to whoever had it, that he wasn’t going to let this drop and was closing in on them … perhaps in the hope of spooking them to an extent that they’d hand it back. Late 2018: When announcing a batch of non-DW returns, he said " I am positive more Doctor Who will turn up." … which I thought may include WOF3 but that was almost 5 years ago. Wind forward to Apr 2020, his WOF3 comments were watered down to simply: “ we do have an idea of where that episode is” (but he would not be publicly naming anyone). The last I heard from him was Jan 2021 when he made a seemingly baseless tweet that WOF3 had taken by a member of the Fitzroy Tavern Who crowd, something that he was unwilling or unable to back up. I certainly wouldn’t put Phil down (and I don’t appreciate it when people do) as he’s an absolute hero when it comes to the restoration of lost TV, and if I read too much into what he says then I tend to blame myself for it. But I have learnt to take what he says with a pinch of salt. So when he says with total certainty that the Jos station manager was bribed but provides no evidence, I prefer the more likely scenario that he rather naively drew attention to it. The Fitzroy Tavern Who crowd is not such an outrageous mention. Mark Gatiss, Steven Moffat and Russel T Davies have all been linked in the past to the 'ME haul'. M Gatiss - 'rumoured' to have been shown fragments of POTD. And this quote from Bleeding Cool (17 June 2013) links the group with the ME haul: I'm now going to give you more details on the rumoured missing episodes that are reported to have been found.
Of the one hundred and six missing episodes, they comprise ninety of them. The only ones not included are nine episodes of The Dalek Master Plan, plus Mission To The Unknown, two episodes of The Invasion, two episodes of The Ice Warriors, and two episodes of The Wheel In Space.
So that's not quite The Full Hartnell, but it's pretty close. And that's an awful lot more Troughton than I was expecting.
And that the BBC have been negotiating their safe return. That Steven Moffat, Russell T Davies, Mark Gatiss, Caroline Skinner, all the main players, the Cardiff production office, Doctor Who Magazine are aware of what's happening.
But this is bigger than Doctor Who. This is eight thousand recovered films including the likes of missing Dad's Army, Out Of The Unknown, Morecambe And Wise, The Sky At Night and more. Including ninety missing Doctor Who films and potentially better quality prints of already recovered shows. Such as three separate sets of Doctor Who: Marco Polo – one poor quality, two in excellent nick. |
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Post by andyparting on Oct 13, 2023 17:29:55 GMT
I don’t think anyone reasonable will blame him for the loss of WOF3, and that it was purely due to naivety. I’ll be a more charitable than you about his over-optimistic comments in that I accept that this was also down to his naivety, not realising how DW fandom works … unaware that he’d only need to wipe his arse for fanatics to take that as a hint that he’d found another missing episode. Well each to their own Andy. That said, a fitting, illustrative microcosm of Phil’s dubious antics post 2013 can be found in an old social media post of his in which he, like many other fans, marked the annual anniversary of ‘Who’s very first transmission back in 1963. Naturally everyone else posted a picture of the 1st Doctor, Barbara, Ian and Susan as one would expect but not Phil. No, he decided to upload a telesnap from the currently missing episode 3 from Evil of the Daleks instead …Personally I don’t ascribe wilful mischief like that to mere naivety tbh… To me, this may be Phil's way of giving us a of what is to come. 'Expect the unexpected' - as the man himself once said. A complete Evil of the Daleks was one of the first stories rumoured to have been found by Phil, don't forget. I think it was sensible of him not to upload a frame of a found episode of EOTD. Everyone would have gone mental - a bit like Bleeding Cool did. Also don't forget the BC rumour in August 2013 that EOTW WOF & MP were the only copies 'ready to go' at that stage, everything else apparently needing a helluva lot more restoration work done to it (think of that Morcambe and Wise film copy for example - and shudder). So EOTD may not have 'been ready' to extract a frame from. After WOF3 went missing, Phil wisely elected to do all restoration work in-house at TIEA, lest he be betrayed again. Phil has kept his cards close to his chest, and long may he continue to do so, until the big reveal comes, when his search and restoring what he's found is over. And I don't mind waiting another 10 years for it - just so long as 'something' comes back to us. Again, it's the entitled thing: I want, and I want it now. |
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Post by andyparting on Oct 13, 2023 17:32:20 GMT
Well each to their own Andy. That said, a fitting, illustrative microcosm of Phil’s dubious antics post 2013 can be found in an old social media post of his in which he, like many other fans, marked the annual anniversary of ‘Who’s very first transmission back in 1963. Naturally everyone else posted a picture of the 1st Doctor, Barbara, Ian and Susan as one would expect but not Phil. No, he decided to upload a telesnap from the currently missing episode 3 from Evil of the Daleks instead …Personally I don’t ascribe wilful mischief like that to mere naivety tbh… Maybe I am being too charitable but regardless, no one should assume that it is just a few gullible, over-zealous & easily excitable fans that have read too much into Phil's comments over the years. There's that notorious Steve Roberts interview during which he states that it is his belief that Phil has definitely (yes, definitely) recovered Marco Polo ... based solely on the positive nature of Phil's comments. Yes, and now sadly it may be gone, along with WOF3  Now are we beginning to understand why Phil says so little - over such a long period of time? |
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Post by Tim Burrows on Oct 13, 2023 18:11:53 GMT
Maybe I am being too charitable but regardless, no one should assume that it is just a few gullible, over-zealous & easily excitable fans that have read too much into Phil's comments over the years. There's that notorious Steve Roberts interview during which he states that it is his belief that Phil has definitely (yes, definitely) recovered Marco Polo ... based solely on the positive nature of Phil's comments. Yes, and now sadly it may be gone, along with WOF3 Now are we beginning to understand why Phil says so little - over such a long period of time? Are you actually Phil Morris? |
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Post by barneyhall on Oct 13, 2023 18:16:20 GMT
Maybe I am being too charitable but regardless, no one should assume that it is just a few gullible, over-zealous & easily excitable fans that have read too much into Phil's comments over the years. There's that notorious Steve Roberts interview during which he states that it is his belief that Phil has definitely (yes, definitely) recovered Marco Polo ... based solely on the positive nature of Phil's comments. Yes, and now sadly it may be gone, along with WOF3 Now are we beginning to understand why Phil says so little - over such a long period of time? its rare you get me to bite again but I will. The problem with Phil is not his prolonged silence. In fact if he had never opened his mouth again after his initial recovery I think the state of fandom and rumour moungers would be far better. The problem is his "wind blowing in the right direction" amounting to nothing but thin air. Even Steve Roberts belief he had recovered Marco was due to phile over reaching comments. I'm very greatful for his recoveries of but I think his comments after have been frankly toxic for fandom and until he's ready to either tell a full and accounted story (I.e with evidence to back up wild claims) or hand more stuff back frankly I don't want to hear from him. People blindly hanging onto his every word that it must be fact because he's handed episodes back im the past need to have a reality check sometimes. |
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Post by andyeves on Oct 13, 2023 18:30:21 GMT
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Post by andyparting on Oct 13, 2023 21:00:42 GMT
Fair enough, but Phil has been continuing to tell us he is pursuing someone who has the film can - so i will take that as gospel. I can't believe he refuses to believe the station master trashed the film to the point where he's off on an endless hunt for some imaginary thief. |
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Post by Scot Ferre on Oct 13, 2023 21:32:10 GMT
I still take Phil at his word. Given all his words including his social media posts, I can't help but think it's similar to Trump's utterances. There's a lot of empty words..... (it's just an observation, that's all). |
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Post by Daniel E on Oct 14, 2023 3:27:14 GMT
In the above linked thread, Paul V writes something I’m struggling to understand - not what he said, but *why* he’d say it ? At the beginning of all of this, before Phil tracked the films down I told him that if he found anything, he'd be putting the films in danger. When something lies undisturbed for 40 or so years, it's safe. As soon as you change its circumstances, you change its fate. What happened to Web 3 is the perfect example of that fact. I’m absolutely sure Paul wouldn’t resent Missing Episode Hunter’s efforts to find missing episodes, but why warn against finding episodes? If it changes the prints’ fate, why is it safer to leave episodes to degrade in the heat of Jos, until they are ALL chucked out as worthless ? Would it have been better for these prints not to be discovered, but EOW3 would’ve still been there, if we could have our time again ? Most importantly, how could anyone have done anything differently based on following Paul’s circumspect advice ? |
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Post by George D on Oct 14, 2023 4:44:15 GMT
No one knows if he left it would we be better or worse.
Some put web3 in a special position as the first appearance of brigadier, which is true. To me , it's a filler episode where a good chuck is them watching slides.
If one had to be missing, that to me, is least damaging to the story
Once Phil arrived in Nigeria and opened his mouth, things were not the same. We don't know if he didn't hide them if all would be gone now.
I'm happy with the 9 although disappointed about the 10th
This has nothing to do winding Fandom up. I don't blame him for liking the attention but it's not a productive attention.
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Post by andyparting on Oct 14, 2023 6:52:22 GMT
I still take Phil at his word. Given all his words including his social media posts, I can't help but think it's similar to Trump's utterances. There's a lot of empty words..... (it's just an observation, that's all). But you forget Phil has delivered the goods in the past, Scot... 9 missing eps. This is why I trust his word when it comes to him promising more. It's not empty words. With regard to doubting his word over the person who went off with WOF3, are we saying that he's off on a wild goose chase and updating us online of the fanciful progress? |
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Post by David Gillespie on Oct 14, 2023 6:58:11 GMT
In the above linked thread, Paul V writes something I’m struggling to understand - not what he said, but *why* he’d say it ? At the beginning of all of this, before Phil tracked the films down I told him that if he found anything, he'd be putting the films in danger. When something lies undisturbed for 40 or so years, it's safe. As soon as you change its circumstances, you change its fate. What happened to Web 3 is the perfect example of that fact. I’m absolutely sure Paul wouldn’t resent Missing Episode Hunter’s efforts to find missing episodes, but why warn against finding episodes? If it changes the prints’ fate, why is it safer to leave episodes to degrade in the heat of Jos, until they are ALL chucked out as worthless ? Would it have been better for these prints not to be discovered, but EOW3 would’ve still been there, if we could have our time again ? Most importantly, how could anyone have done anything differently based on following Paul’s circumspect advice ? I took his point to mean that as soon as the films on the shelf are identified as having value, they become vulnerable. He doesn’t appear to me to be advocating them being left to their fate on the shelves, but that great care is needed to make sure they can be safely retrieved and not intercepted or stopped by people acting in bad faith. |
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)….
Now are we beginning to understand why Phil says so little - over such a long period of time?
