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Post by George D on Oct 12, 2023 13:05:50 GMT
I can't imagine the Jos station manager destroying WoF 3. I can imagine him taking it home and hiding it under the mattress. After all, no one is going to get a search warrant for your house on the basis of a film print and, you never know, maybe one day you might make some money out of it. Or, even if all that logic didn't work for him, the safest thing to do would be for him to mislay it somewhere else within the TV station then pretend he knew nothing about it. If you did destroy it, how would you do it and where would you hide the remains? After all, if someone did find some of the remains, that would show that the film can had been taken and destroyed by someone. That seems far riskier to me than just casually mislaying it somewhere. Just musing :-) Richard I'm viewing the situation from a different culture. A Nigerian who is trying to stay alive in a brutal country who could care less about Dr who . I don't believe he initially intended to destroy it Just like a teacher may see kids playing with a toy during class, he saw them playing with a film can , took it away from them and forgot about it. ( assuming even the initial story is true). Rather than motivate him to find it. The guy was interrogated and possibly didn't care any more. With the fire after, if it was there, it's gone now Is possible he took it home as a curiosity. But with the poverty conditions and life expectancy there, it's a long shot that he still has it. He could have sold it to a film collector but that would assume either he did research or the film collector was a leak who paid him off( which is what we should have initially done) Maybe the thief is one of pms team. Who knows? Assuming the station manager still exists, the best chance of following up would be for him to be interviewed by a high quality interrogator. Regardless, hopefully it still exists. |
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Post by andyparting on Oct 12, 2023 13:28:30 GMT
Simplest explanation: Phil was betrayed by a trusted member of his team who bribed the station manager. Complicated explanation: Blah, blah, blah, etc.
If it's a simple explanation, it's usually true. If it's complicated, be suspicious.
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Post by George D on Oct 12, 2023 14:28:52 GMT
Simplest explanation: Phil was betrayed by a trusted member of his team who bribed the station manager. Complicated explanation: Blah, blah, blah, etc. If it's a simple explanation, it's usually true. If it's complicated, be suspicious. Not simplest. If it was one of his men, then he knew the location of the other 11, so why didn't he steal those also? Simplest, is the Nigerian didn't know what he had and lost it. But all of this falls into beliefs and not facts. |
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Post by andyparting on Oct 12, 2023 14:34:02 GMT
Simplest explanation: Phil was betrayed by a trusted member of his team who bribed the station manager. Complicated explanation: Blah, blah, blah, etc. If it's a simple explanation, it's usually true. If it's complicated, be suspicious. Not simplest. If it was one of his men, then he knew the location of the other 11, so why didn't he steal those also? Simplest, is the Nigerian didn't know what he had and lost it. But all of this falls into beliefs and not facts. Phil has given us the facts. It's we who are twisting and complicating his story through suspicion and lack of trust, adding bits to it to create the complicated whole  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 15:02:44 GMT
Simplest explanation: Phil was betrayed by a trusted member of his team who bribed the station manager. Complicated explanation: Blah, blah, blah, etc. If it's a simple explanation, it's usually true. If it's complicated, be suspicious. Phil also admitted telling people about the discovery prior to the films being returned, which no doubt led to word spreading to a collector who contacted the station manager and prompted the private sale; he said that has ‘learnt his lesson’ and no longer comments to others regarding his ongoing investigations. He stated this in a intervire here. www.doctorwhonews.net/2015/09/more-details-about-discovery-and-loss.html |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 15:03:52 GMT
Simplest explanation: Phil was betrayed by a trusted member of his team who bribed the station manager. Complicated explanation: Blah, blah, blah, etc. If it's a simple explanation, it's usually true. If it's complicated, be suspicious. Not simplest. If it was one of his men, then he knew the location of the other 11, so why didn't he steal those also? Simplest, is the Nigerian didn't know what he had and lost it. But all of this falls into beliefs and not facts. The private collector wanted the one that has the Brigader's first apperance. Even Philip agrees that's the most likely reason why WoF 3 was taken. |
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Post by andyeves on Oct 12, 2023 15:13:40 GMT
Not simplest. If it was one of his men, then he knew the location of the other 11, so why didn't he steal those also? Simplest, is the Nigerian didn't know what he had and lost it. But all of this falls into beliefs and not facts. The private collector wanted the one that has the Brigader's first apperance. Even Philip agrees that's the most likely reason why WoF 3 was taken. Actually Phil is on record as saying that he believes it was totally random, and it could just have easily been WOF1 or EOTW3 that he took (and more's the pity that it wasn't). |
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Post by Robbie Moubert on Oct 12, 2023 15:52:52 GMT
A Nigerian who is trying to stay alive in a brutal country who could care less about Dr who . care less. |
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Post by andyparting on Oct 12, 2023 20:56:58 GMT
For anyone who hasn't already, I'd recommend having a listen to: Ty pe 40 • A Doctor Who Podcast #70 - Missing Episodes with Richard Molesworth
It's a cracking & insightful interview and he gives his take on the WOF3 debacle. Also available here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGFiPIsVaEsAt what min mark is this WOF3 take, please? |
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Post by andyeves on Oct 12, 2023 21:20:29 GMT
For anyone who hasn't already, I'd recommend having a listen to: Ty pe 40 • A Doctor Who Podcast #70 - Missing Episodes with Richard Molesworth
It's a cracking & insightful interview and he gives his take on the WOF3 debacle. Also available here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGFiPIsVaEsAt what min mark is this WOF3 take, please? Around 41 minute mark. |
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Post by mattg on Oct 12, 2023 23:28:44 GMT
Not simplest. If it was one of his men, then he knew the location of the other 11, so why didn't he steal those also? Simplest, is the Nigerian didn't know what he had and lost it. But all of this falls into beliefs and not facts. The private collector wanted the one that has the Brigader's first apperance. Even Philip agrees that's the most likely reason why WoF 3 was taken. Ah yes I remember that particular Web3 theory, and sadly it smacks of deluded fan ‘logic’. Far more likely is the alternative explanation: the station employee was sufficiently curious, suspected there might be some monetary value attached to these neglected film cans and so randomly light-fingered one of them for further investigation… On a related note and, keeping with the contentious ‘stolen to order’ theme, didn’t Phil dramatically claim at one point that he knew where Web3 had ended up and threatened to publicly name the new owner if he didn’t play ball? He (Phil) never did of course (assuming I haven’t misremembered - understandable as Phil used to say a helluva lot back then, much of it contradictory to previous accounts/statements  )…. |
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Post by andyeves on Oct 13, 2023 2:55:05 GMT
The private collector wanted the one that has the Brigader's first apperance. Even Philip agrees that's the most likely reason why WoF 3 was taken. Ah yes I remember that particular Web3 theory, and sadly it smacks of deluded fan ‘logic’. Far more likely is the alternative explanation: the station employee was sufficiently curious, suspected there might be some monetary value attached to these neglected film cans and so randomly light-fingered one of them for further investigation… On a related note and, keeping with the contentious ‘stolen to order’ theme, didn’t Phil dramatically claim at one point that he knew where Web3 had ended up and threatened to publicly name the new owner if he didn’t play ball? He (Phil) never did of course (assuming I haven’t misremembered - understandable as Phil used to say a helluva lot back then, much of it contradictory to previous accounts/statements )…. Starburst Aug 2016: Phil said about WOF3 " But we’re on top of that. That is not going to stay missing for too long. So … we are working on that." If taken at face value, this would imply that he not only knew who has it but was close to securing it. I now believe he was simply sending a strong message to whoever had it, that he wasn’t going to let this drop and was closing in on them … perhaps in the hope of spooking them to an extent that they’d hand it back. Late 2018: When announcing a batch of non-DW returns, he said " I am positive more Doctor Who will turn up." … which I thought may include WOF3 but that was almost 5 years ago. Wind forward to Apr 2020, his WOF3 comments were watered down to simply: “ we do have an idea of where that episode is” (but he would not be publicly naming anyone). The last I heard from him was Jan 2021 when he made a seemingly baseless tweet that WOF3 had taken by a member of the Fitzroy Tavern Who crowd, something that he was unwilling or unable to back up. I certainly wouldn’t put Phil down (and I don’t appreciate it when people do) as he’s an absolute hero when it comes to the restoration of lost TV, and if I read too much into what he says then I tend to blame myself for it. But I have learnt to take what he says with a pinch of salt. So when he says with total certainty that the Jos station manager was bribed but provides no evidence, I prefer the more likely scenario that he rather naively drew attention to it. |
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Post by mattg on Oct 13, 2023 10:32:21 GMT
Ah yes I remember that particular Web3 theory, and sadly it smacks of deluded fan ‘logic’. Far more likely is the alternative explanation: the station employee was sufficiently curious, suspected there might be some monetary value attached to these neglected film cans and so randomly light-fingered one of them for further investigation… On a related note and, keeping with the contentious ‘stolen to order’ theme, didn’t Phil dramatically claim at one point that he knew where Web3 had ended up and threatened to publicly name the new owner if he didn’t play ball? He (Phil) never did of course (assuming I haven’t misremembered - understandable as Phil used to say a helluva lot back then, much of it contradictory to previous accounts/statements )…. I certainly wouldn’t put Phil down (and I don’t appreciate it when people do) as he’s an absolute hero when it comes to the restoration of lost TV, and if I read too much into what he says then I tend to blame myself for it. But I have learnt to take what he says with a pinch of salt. So when he says with total certainty that the Jos station manager was bribed but provides no evidence, I prefer the more likely scenario that he rather naively drew attention to it. Not sure I’d define it as putting him down as such but merely acknowledgement that because Phil’s essentially a public figure he must therefore expect public criticism (and indeed praise when applicable) as a consequence. I think most would agree though that in the direct aftermath of 2013 Phil revelled in his relative celebrity a little too much when discretion would’ve been more prudent. He knew that fans, emboldened by the riches he had returned, hung on his every word and thus proceeded to shamelessly exploit their/our hopes with some wildly positive/optimistic cryptic comments that were evidently baseless. For what it’s worth though I certainly don’t blame him for Web3’s disappearance as even if he couldn’t stifle his excitement when he found the cans I know I would’ve done the same (and worse) in his position! |
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Post by andyeves on Oct 13, 2023 11:07:19 GMT
I certainly wouldn’t put Phil down (and I don’t appreciate it when people do) as he’s an absolute hero when it comes to the restoration of lost TV, and if I read too much into what he says then I tend to blame myself for it. But I have learnt to take what he says with a pinch of salt. So when he says with total certainty that the Jos station manager was bribed but provides no evidence, I prefer the more likely scenario that he rather naively drew attention to it. Not sure I’d define it as putting him down as such but merely acknowledgement that because Phil’s essentially a public figure he must therefore expect public criticism (and indeed praise when applicable) as a consequence. I think most would agree though that in the direct aftermath of 2013 Phil revelled in his relative celebrity a little too much when discretion would’ve been more prudent. He knew that fans, emboldened by the riches he had returned, hung on his every word and thus proceeded to shamelessly exploit their/our hopes with some wildly positive/optimistic cryptic comments that were evidently baseless. For what it’s worth though I certainly don’t blame him for Web3’s disappearance as even if he did betray a little too much excitement when he found the cans I know I would’ve done the same (and worse) in his position! I don’t think anyone reasonable will blame him for the loss of WOF3, and that it was purely due to naivety. I’ll be a more charitable than you about his over-optimistic comments in that I accept that this was also down to his naivety, not realising how DW fandom works … unaware that he’d only need to wipe his arse for fanatics to take that as a hint that he’d found another missing episode. |
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Post by mattg on Oct 13, 2023 14:55:07 GMT
Not sure I’d define it as putting him down as such but merely acknowledgement that because Phil’s essentially a public figure he must therefore expect public criticism (and indeed praise when applicable) as a consequence. I think most would agree though that in the direct aftermath of 2013 Phil revelled in his relative celebrity a little too much when discretion would’ve been more prudent. He knew that fans, emboldened by the riches he had returned, hung on his every word and thus proceeded to shamelessly exploit their/our hopes with some wildly positive/optimistic cryptic comments that were evidently baseless. For what it’s worth though I certainly don’t blame him for Web3’s disappearance as even if he did betray a little too much excitement when he found the cans I know I would’ve done the same (and worse) in his position! I don’t think anyone reasonable will blame him for the loss of WOF3, and that it was purely due to naivety. I’ll be a more charitable than you about his over-optimistic comments in that I accept that this was also down to his naivety, not realising how DW fandom works … unaware that he’d only need to wipe his arse for fanatics to take that as a hint that he’d found another missing episode. Well each to their own Andy. That said, a fitting, illustrative microcosm of Phil’s dubious antics (post 2013) can be found in an old social media post of his in which he, like many other fans, marked the annual anniversary of ‘Who’s very first transmission back in 1963. Naturally everyone else uploaded a picture of the 1st Doctor, Barbara, Ian and Susan as one would expect but not Phil. No, he decided to use a telesnap from the currently missing episode 3 from Evil of the Daleks instead …Personally I don’t ascribe wilful mischief like that to mere naivety tbh… |
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