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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Feb 28, 2014 3:49:47 GMT
I'm a little confused about the history of Wheel in Space. In particular, I'm interested to know the best theory as to where the current copy of WIS-3 came from.
Current Bicycling theory holds that four reels were sent out to six countries. Ending up in Australia, Nigeria, New Zealand, and Gibraltar.
Australia destroyed their copy of Wheel in Space in late 1976.
New Zealand censored their copy of episode 3 and the copy we have is uncensored.
Current thought on our forum is that Nigeria sent their copy to Lagos and had it destroyed.
So what's the best guess for the copy we now have? Is it a shelf copy? Did New Zealand send Season 5 back? Did Nigeria? Is it a Gibraltar copy?
I'm curious to know what people's theories are.
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Post by Robert Lia on Feb 28, 2014 4:01:01 GMT
I always thought that it was an ex ABC print that was recoverd from the car boot sale with Evil of the Daleks 2 in the early 1980's. If its not an ex ABC print perhaps its another orphaned AFRTS episode (I have no proof to back that up though, just speculating. I only suggest that after the Chinese Tiapae mystery that we all seek the answers on.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Feb 28, 2014 4:24:12 GMT
I always thought that it was an ex ABC print that was recoverd from the car boot sale with Evil of the Daleks 2 in the early 1980's. If its not an ex ABC print perhaps its another orphaned AFRTS episode (I have no proof to back that up though, just speculating. I only suggest that after the Chinese Tiapae mystery that we all seek the answers on. The episode recovered with Evil was Faceless Ones 3 in 1987. Wheel in Space 3 was found by David Stead in 1983 and handed back to the BBC in 1984. |
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Post by Andrew Parker on Feb 28, 2014 9:25:31 GMT
Was Wheel one of the stories sent back by ABC in 76?
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 28, 2014 10:09:27 GMT
It's definitely not the Nigerian copy as they are unaccounted for (so people automatically assume "destroyed"), given almost half that batch of 24 episodes showed up recently I wouldn't rule out anything, but they certainly weren't sent back to the BBC, so they are out there somewhere (could be as a pile of ash by now, but let's stay optimistic).
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Post by Andrew Parker on Feb 28, 2014 10:25:33 GMT
It's definitely not the Nigerian copy as they are unaccounted for (so people automatically assume "destroyed"), given almost half that batch of 24 episodes showed up recently I wouldn't rule out anything, but they certainly weren't sent back to the BBC, so they are out there somewhere (could be as a pile of ash by now, but let's stay optimistic). What was the other story, The Ice Warriors or The Abominable Snowmen? |
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Post by Robert Lia on Feb 28, 2014 12:56:18 GMT
It's definitely not the Nigerian copy as they are unaccounted for (so people automatically assume "destroyed"), given almost half that batch of 24 episodes showed up recently I wouldn't rule out anything, but they certainly weren't sent back to the BBC, so they are out there somewhere (could be as a pile of ash by now, but let's stay optimistic). Piles of ash are reserved for any AFRTS copy's that were in the Far East Network Philippines archive when the volcano exploded in June 1991 destroying the TV studio at Clark A.ir Base (and a good part of the USAF base)  |
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Feb 28, 2014 14:27:16 GMT
Was Wheel one of the stories sent back by ABC in 76? No. It was one of the very few that ABC had destroyed instead of sending it back. The other stories they had destroyed include The Massacre, The Celestial Toymaker, The Highlanders, The Macra Terror, and The Fury of the Deep. Reign of Terror was sent to New Zealand, who then destroyed it. There are no records for Marco Polo, The Crusade, Mission to the Unknown, Dalek Masterplan, or The Savages. All other missing stories were sent back to the ABC in 1976. It's definitely not the Nigerian copy as they are unaccounted for (so people automatically assume "destroyed"), given almost half that batch of 24 episodes showed up recently I wouldn't rule out anything, but they certainly weren't sent back to the BBC, so they are out there somewhere (could be as a pile of ash by now, but let's stay optimistic). True. Partly why I'm curious as to what WIS-3 is. I never heard of a Gibraltar print before, so unless it is a shelf copy I'm left thinking it could be from Nigeria. But that just sounds as unlikely in my head. So I'm curious what people thought about this reel. What was the other story, The Ice Warriors or The Abominable Snowmen? Abominable Snowmen. |
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 28, 2014 19:10:53 GMT
It's definitely not the Nigerian copy as they are unaccounted for (so people automatically assume "destroyed"), given almost half that batch of 24 episodes showed up recently I wouldn't rule out anything, but they certainly weren't sent back to the BBC, so they are out there somewhere (could be as a pile of ash by now, but let's stay optimistic). What was the other story, The Ice Warriors or The Abominable Snowmen?
The four stories were sold in later 1974 (after a last minute push by the BBC to sell episodes before the rights expired). The 24 episodes consisted of The Abominable Snowmen, The Enemy of the World, The Web of Fear and The Wheel in Space. Given Phillip Morris thinks that Web 3 was "separated" from the rest of them, rather than it simply being those eleven survived destruction it could be possible the other twelve went walkies at the same time. Hardly any firm proof, but it certainly is a possibility.
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Post by edhipkiss on Feb 28, 2014 23:28:41 GMT
What was the other story, The Ice Warriors or The Abominable Snowmen?
The four stories were sold in later 1974 (after a last minute push by the BBC to sell episodes before the rights expired). The 24 episodes consisted of The Abominable Snowmen, The Enemy of the World, The Web of Fear and The Wheel in Space. Given Phillip Morris thinks that Web 3 was "separated" from the rest of them, rather than it simply being those eleven survived destruction it could be possible the other twelve went walkies at the same time. Hardly any firm proof, but it certainly is a possibility.
I agree completely with you Scott. I know statistically we are most likely to see Marco Polo & Reign 4 & 5 returned (most prints struck and sold abroad), but Nigeria has been such a rich hunting ground for lost Who I personally think Snowmen and Wheel (and Web 3) are the most likely finds if there are more to come. There is no evidence they were destroyed, and if Enemy & Web can turn up in an old almost-forgotten storehouse, I'd personally think the same is probably true of Snowmen & Wheel - just somewhere further along the chain, maybe in another storehouse. If so, Phil will have them tucked away in the TIEA storehouse by now, so one day we may find out |
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Post by Robert Lia on Mar 1, 2014 0:20:23 GMT
I hope that the other 2 story's plus Web of Fear part 3 are still sitting on a dusty forgotten shelf instead of being burned 30 years ago.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 1, 2014 4:25:52 GMT
Not all the existing prints have to be ex-broadcast prints returned from overseas. Some may have been spare "oops, we made one too many, let's bung it on the shelf for now" copies.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Mar 1, 2014 5:08:18 GMT
Not all the existing prints have to be ex-broadcast prints returned from overseas. Some may have been spare "oops, we made one too many, let's bung it on the shelf for now" copies. That's another option I had thought of as well. I didn't know if there was any physical evidence on the reel to suggest anything. Splices where commercials use to be, a number on the lead at the beginning, a label ... EDIT: The absence of any splices would be telling as well. |
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Post by Robert Lia on Mar 1, 2014 5:38:31 GMT
That is an interesting possibility that the BBC ran off to many copies when they made the sales copy's
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Post by andrewfrostick on Mar 1, 2014 7:49:02 GMT
That is an interesting possibility that the BBC ran off to many copies when they made the sales copy's That is an interesting thought. I wonder how the master copies were stored and collected for copying? by production code? So if I was sloppy with my typing or writing I could request a copy of story V instead of VV. Oops I've got Daleks Master Plan instead of the Invasion. Bugger, give it to Bob in the mail room to get rid if it. He's a Dalek buff and reorder story V pronto ! Who knows? |
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