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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 3, 2014 21:11:26 GMT
The book Wiped-original version says that episodes 5 and 10 are stored field and does not say which type episode 2 is. It would have been Stored. It's now understood (per Wiped the Revised Edition) that season 3 was not originally telerecorded as Suppressed then redone as Stored. They were only ever made as Stored telerecordings.
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Post by scotttelfer on Mar 4, 2014 23:15:46 GMT
The book Wiped-original version says that episodes 5 and 10 are stored field and does not say which type episode 2 is. It would have been Stored. It's now understood (per Wiped the Revised Edition) that season 3 was not originally telerecorded as Suppressed then redone as Stored. They were only ever made as Stored telerecordings.
Seems unusual then that a year later they'd order yet another copy of many of the stories form Series 3 if they were already in the stored format.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 5, 2014 0:52:21 GMT
It would have been Stored. It's now understood (per Wiped the Revised Edition) that season 3 was not originally telerecorded as Suppressed then redone as Stored. They were only ever made as Stored telerecordings.
Seems unusual then that a year later they'd order yet another copy of many of the stories form Series 3 if they were already in the stored format.
Um, they didn't...
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Post by scotttelfer on Mar 5, 2014 11:32:28 GMT
Seems unusual then that a year later they'd order yet another copy of many of the stories form Series 3 if they were already in the stored format.
Um, they didn't... From what I can gather they placed an order in early 1967 for every story up to and including The Gunfighters to be made in stored field format. Of course, this could be outdated information now (this was in early 2012) but that was certainly the claim, many of the stories from that series were already being sold. You'd think somebody would have noticed if this wasn't the case a bit sooner (as there haven't been any further recoveries from that period since then).
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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 5, 2014 19:36:36 GMT
From what I can gather they placed an order in early 1967 for every story up to and including The Gunfighters to be made in stored field format. Of course, this could be outdated information now (this was in early 2012) but that was certainly the claim, many of the stories from that series were already being sold. You'd think somebody would have noticed if this wasn't the case a bit sooner (as there haven't been any further recoveries from that period since then). Yes, it's "outdated". Current thought is that Seasons 1 and 2 were all redone as Stored in early 1967 (mainly to create the non-English prints), whereas Season 3 was only ever done as Stored, so didn't need upgrading.
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Post by Robert Lia on Mar 5, 2014 22:29:09 GMT
Why would they want to make another print of Daleks Master Plan after it failed to sell anyway?
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Post by scotttelfer on Mar 5, 2014 22:46:21 GMT
Why would they want to make another print of Daleks Master Plan after it failed to sell anyway?
No idea, that's why I always thought it looked a bit odd that they'd order another copy. The only other possible explanation would be they thought they could get a sale through other means but for those dates it would seem a bit pointless, unless there is another lot of sales records that have gone missing (although a lot more would have gone missing in the case of The Daleks' Master Plan as there is no evidence of any sale having ever happened, only a rejected offer from Australia, unless AFRTS want to surprise us even more).
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Post by Robert Lia on Mar 5, 2014 23:24:33 GMT
Yeah I would laugh my self to death if they found a copy of Daleks Master Plan in the basement of The Pentagon . The online search of AFRTS TV listings is continuing but as of now the only listings we have from AFRTS refer to the two Dr. Who movies plus the Tom Baker episodes. Jon Pertrwee is known to have run on the "US government owned station" ARMACO in Saudi Arabia on the NTSC channel. ARAMCO was AFRTS "affiliated" but so far Jon Pertwee listings have not turned up on any AFRTS military channels. In flying out to Los Angeles on Saturday and on to Hong Kong and Manila on a red eye Cathay Pacific Airlines flight on Monday Morning. Who knows after failing to find an episode on any of my overseas hunts in 1987,88,89,90,91,95,96,97,98,2009,10,1,,12 & 2013. Perhaps 2014 will be the year my luck changes
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Post by stephenwit1 on Mar 6, 2014 18:23:09 GMT
I'm watching THE DALEKS' MASTERPLAN again. It's amazing that 3 episodes have returned.
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Post by Peter Johnston on Feb 1, 2017 19:50:09 GMT
I reckon we have a good chance of getting Wheel back, along with Snowmen. If they were originally with Web and Enemy it stands to reason that they could potentially be tracked down. Unfortunately based on overseas sales we have less chance of finding stuff from Season 4...
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Post by Dylan Heath on Feb 1, 2017 21:40:14 GMT
I reckon we have a good chance of getting Wheel back, along with Snowmen. If they were originally with Web and Enemy it stands to reason that they could potentially be tracked down. Unfortunately based on overseas sales we have less chance of finding stuff from Season 4... Let's hope they weren't in Jos as that burned down a couple of years ago.
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 4, 2017 13:46:23 GMT
I reckon we have a good chance of getting Wheel back, along with Snowmen. If they were originally with Web and Enemy it stands to reason that they could potentially be tracked down. Unfortunately based on overseas sales we have less chance of finding stuff from Season 4... Let's hope they weren't in Jos as that burned down a couple of years ago. From what has been said the films had been separated long before they were found in Jos and there's some sort of records to verify this (understandably details are minimal for now).
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Post by Ed Brown on Feb 21, 2017 21:36:16 GMT
Not all the existing prints have to be ex-broadcast prints returned from overseas. Some may have been spare "oops, we made one too many, let's bung it on the shelf for now" copies. I wonder whether any consideration has been given to one rather obvious point: if Season One and Season Two were originally marketed as skip-field film prints in 1963/64, but were then re-transfered in 1967 as stored-field prints, does that not inevitably leave a large quantity of skip-field prints sitting on a shelf in London? Time and again I see the same point raised here, asking 'where did such-and-such an episode come from?' In the case of those serials which were TK'd twice (originally as suppressed-field, then as stored-field), surely the question answers itself: there must have been a large surplus of prints at the BBC which, having been made as skip-field were redundant once superceded by the stored field replacements. The superceded prints thereafter were no longer needed for "cycling", so never (or never again) left the UK. Being redundant prints, they were henceforward free to pass into the hands of film collectors (or actors, extras, producers, directors, stage crew - anyone at all really, who'd any connection with the episodes concerned). May I mention here that Gerald Campion, the actor who starred as Billy Bunter, wandered off with a film print of one episode of the BBC-tv series 'Billy Bunter of Greyfriars School' that he starred in, on leaving the show in 1961 - simply because he wanted a memento of the production. In the Sixties, if you were in it you could get hold of an episode even if you were walking away with the only existing recording of it! But to get back to the percentage game: if we consider purely those Hartnell Seasons which were TK'd twice, is it not inevitable that there is a greater probability of these surviving, given that being TK'd twice creates far more prints than you'd get for a 'normal' Season? We ask, 'Why do so few episodes turn up for Season Three and Season Four?', when what we should be asking is, 'Why do so _many_ episodes survive from Seasons One and Two?' The answer, at least in part, must logically be that, statistically, Seasons One and Two are over-represented due to having been completely re-TK'd, such that far more prints were made for them than for later Seasons: thus it is inevitable that more have survived, because there were more in existence to begin with. Also, when we hit the Troughton era we have to cross the great divide: the gap that some tv shows never survive, in losing their star and re-casting. Even at the BBC the show was thought to be doomed: the British audience was expected to hate the change in the lead actor; and foreign stations didn't buy Troughton serials, because their audiences prefered Hartnell. Here's another reason why Hartnell serials sold strongly even after 1966, while sales were weak for Troughton serials. This gives added impetus to the chances of the Hartnell episodes surviving: they continued to sell, because overseas stations were free to reject the new Doctor and re-contract for Hartnell serials instead. (The BBC failed to take into account that a significant part of the domestic audience were children, who accepted the change in the show's star far more readily than an adult audience might have done. But the serials were being ordered for viewing abroad by tv station managers overseas who were adults, and who seem to have believed what the adults running the BBC believed: they bought - or refused to buy - the Troughton serials based on their adult gut-reaction to the loss of the show's popular star, Bill Hartnell.)
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,864
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Post by RWels on Feb 21, 2017 23:34:54 GMT
May I mention here that Gerald Campion, the actor who starred as Billy Bunter, wandered off with a film print of one episode of the BBC-tv series 'Billy Bunter of Greyfriars School' that he starred in, on leaving the show in 1961 - simply because he wanted a memento of the production. In the Sixties, if you were in it you could get hold of an episode even if you were walking away with the only existing recording of it! Can I ask if there is a reliable source for this? It doesn't sound very likely given that many other writers/actors were totally unable to do so. I heard a different version, namely that at some later date he was presented with several 16mm prints on a special occasion. One of them was "Double Bunter" which from then on was no longer in the BBC archive (a bootleg copy was later returned). (Ironically it seems that this is a remake of "Billy Bunter's Double", but both the old and the new version survive!) Note. I believe the BBC archive would still like to borrow the 16mm print of the missing episode from his widow, who is living in France; don't suppose anyone knows where to contact here?
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Post by John Wall on Feb 22, 2017 10:44:08 GMT
Not all the existing prints have to be ex-broadcast prints returned from overseas. Some may have been spare "oops, we made one too many, let's bung it on the shelf for now" copies. I wonder whether any consideration has been given to one rather obvious point: if Season One and Season Two were originally marketed as skip-field film prints in 1963/64, but were then re-transfered in 1967 as stored-field prints, does that not inevitably leave a large quantity of skip-field prints sitting on a shelf in London? Time and again I see the same point raised here, asking 'where did such-and-such an episode come from?' In the case of those serials which were TK'd twice (originally as suppressed-field, then as stored-field), surely the question answers itself: there must have been a large surplus of prints at the BBC which, having been made as skip-field were redundant once superceded by the stored field replacements. The superceded prints thereafter were no longer needed for "cycling", so never (or never again) left the UK. Being redundant prints, they were henceforward free to pass into the hands of film collectors (or actors, extras, producers, directors, stage crew - anyone at all really, who'd any connection with the episodes concerned). May I mention here that Gerald Campion, the actor who starred as Billy Bunter, wandered off with a film print of one episode of the BBC-tv series 'Billy Bunter of Greyfriars School' that he starred in, on leaving the show in 1961 - simply because he wanted a memento of the production. In the Sixties, if you were in it you could get hold of an episode even if you were walking away with the only existing recording of it! But to get back to the percentage game: if we consider purely those Hartnell Seasons which were TK'd twice, is it not inevitable that there is a greater probability of these surviving, given that being TK'd twice creates far more prints than you'd get for a 'normal' Season? We ask, 'Why do so few episodes turn up for Season Three and Season Four?', when what we should be asking is, 'Why do so _many_ episodes survive from Seasons One and Two?' The answer, at least in part, must logically be that, statistically, Seasons One and Two are over-represented due to having been completely re-TK'd, such that far more prints were made for them than for later Seasons: thus it is inevitable that more have survived, because there were more in existence to begin with. Also, when we hit the Troughton era we have to cross the great divide: the gap that some tv shows never survive, in losing their star and re-casting. Even at the BBC the show was thought to be doomed: the British audience was expected to hate the change in the lead actor; and foreign stations didn't buy Troughton serials, because their audiences prefered Hartnell. Here's another reason why Hartnell serials sold strongly even after 1966, while sales were weak for Troughton serials. This gives added impetus to the chances of the Hartnell episodes surviving: they continued to sell, because overseas stations were free to reject the new Doctor and re-contract for Hartnell serials instead. (The BBC failed to take into account that a significant part of the domestic audience were children, who accepted the change in the show's star far more readily than an adult audience might have done. But the serials were being ordered for viewing abroad by tv station managers overseas who were adults, and who seem to have believed what the adults running the BBC believed: they bought - or refused to buy - the Troughton serials based on their adult gut-reaction to the loss of the show's popular star, Bill Hartnell.) I recall reading somewhere that most of the first two seasons were recovered from Enterprises - when people like Sue Malden and Ian Levine got in there in the late 70s.
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