Not Only But Also

[Matthew North]

So How significant would it be if say 3 episodes of NOBA turned up as excallant quality audio recordings?

Best

Matt

[Geoff]

Potentailly very interesting indeed, depending which ones of course!(though obviously you mean ones that aren't known to exist anymore). Don't be such a tease, I can't bear suspense like this. :)Do you mean you have such recordings of missing NOBA, or know where such might be located? Which shows exactly? Do tell!
Btw, I often wondered what happened to the recordings Decca must have had to compile the LPs, and if they had full recordings of the shows to choose from.

[Matthew North]

Well wait and see but I might Just have found 3 complete missing episodes in audio form.


Matt

[Matthew North]

They are Episodes 4,5 and 6 from serise 2

[William NZ]

If this proves true, that's a great find - although, if this chunk of NOBA is treated with the usual consideration afforded to it by the Beeb, we can look forward to never hearing any of it (short of a seventeen second clip in a radio documentary). The rediscovered audio material that came to light in 2002-2003 - which definitely included episode two of the second series - doesn't even seem to have been properly catalogued, let alone released (any one know which episodes exactly this entailed)?

This rant aside, any news is good news when it comes to NOBA, my favourite archive series and my great hope when it comes to the return of classic TV. What's particularly intriguing from an archival/research perspective is that with a soundtrack of episode five we can attempt to transcribe "The Epic That Never Was" film item, of which only the first page of the script survives in the written archives. Much of the rest does exist on the '66 LP (Once Moore With Cook) (one sketch from 2:4, two from 2:5 and 2:6).

As an aside, the audio material that is probably most useful when it comes to some sort of DVD release would be soundtracks for series one, episode four and for a number of episodes from series three (see long thread below), for which mute visual material exists. Nonetheless, if this pans out - a chance to hear "Epic", "Commercials" and, indeed, any other previously unknown/unheard NOBA is very significant indeed! Great news if it all works out, and not too long after the Beyond the Fringe DVD was announced, too.

William

[Geoff]

Matthew said:

They are Episodes 4,5 and 6 from serise 2

Fantastic! Oh, I really hope we get to hear these, as has been already said, we only got a brief clip of recently discovred audio NOBA from the miserly BBC..but that recording sounded very lo-fi, you say these are good quality too? Wow, I'm very excited by this, NOBA is my favourite of the series with an "existence challenged archival" status. Great find. Do you plan on offering them to the Beeb? Mind you, they're so stingy with the NOBA material they've got, they've been trotting out those '90s compilations forever. Maybe something like this, plus the recently rediscovered film, might give them the required boot up the arse! Anyway, great find, can't wait to hear them

[Paul Vanezis]

Not wishing to get people's hopes up, but this afternoon I spoke to someone else who collects audio recordings who thinks he taped some 'Not Only But Also' and has kept them. I'm seeing him tomorrow afternoon as he has an extensive collection of radio and TV comedy and variety recorded since the early sixties.

This plus several exciting calls I've had today in response to a plea I put in the BBC newspaper Ariel last week and the telesnap recoveries make me feel very positive about missing episodes at the moment.

As soon as I get any lists of material I'll post them in the appropriate threads.

Regards,

Paul

[Geoff]

William said:

rediscovered audio material that came to light in 2002-2003 - which definitely included episode two of the second series - doesn't even seem to have been properly catalogued, let alone released (any one know which episodes exactly this entailed)?

William

I remember hearing that brief clip on the Radio 4 doco. tantalising, but annoying as they kept telling us of this recently rediscovered material, but actually let us hear such a small amount. If that was show 2 (and I don't know for sure either what it amounted to), then with these audios it would mean that only show 3 is missing completely, yes? Oh, that the BBC could put a complete "What's Left Of" package, with all the surviving video and audio, and stop fobbing us off with that damn "Best Of" (the video/DVD of which missed a few sketches from the tv version, so the video should have been called "Some of the Best of What's Left of.." ). The compilations were nice in their day, but so much has come to light since, in one form or another (plus the bits they left out in the first place, most weirdly the Good vs Evil cricket match), that I really hope they do something with it all.
Forgive my going on, but I love this show so much!

[Geoff Sear]

paulvanezis said:

Not wishing to get people's hopes up, but this afternoon I spoke to someone else who collects audio recordings who thinks he taped some 'Not Only But Also' and has kept them. I'm seeing him tomorrow afternoon as he has an extensive collection of radio and TV comedy and variety recorded since the early sixties.


Regards,

Paul

My god, I can only take so much excitement and suspense you know. Seriously, all I can say is 'Not Only But Also' is one of my favourite shows ever, and even the hope of any missing stuff emerging will deprive me of sleep due to sheer anticipation. Keep us posted! What potential joys await us....

[William NZ]

I have never understood the BBC/public indifference to NOBA and a proper release of the surviving material, outside of it being black and white and incomplete. There's Cook (maybe not hugely well-known in the states, but party to a certain respect in the UK at least), Moore (hardly obscure himself), Lennon (if legal difficulties could be resolved), Sellers, Clement, McGrath... (what a blurb - "Starring comedy legends Dudley Moore (10, Arthur) and Peter Cook (Beyond the Fringe, The Princess Bride) and featuring Peter Sellers, Barry Humphries and John Lennon... directed by Joe McGrath (It's a Square World, The Magic Christian), Dick Clement (The Likely Lads, Porridge) and James Gilbert ("The Two Ronnies")..."

Problem is, the longer the actual show goes unrecognised/left out of the public forum, the harder it becomes to establish that recognition as the historical context (predessecor to Python, birth of surrealist comedy, off-shoot of "Fringe" satire movement) and the individual players fade from the public conciousness. The death of Moore would have been an opportunity for a release (opportunist but appropriate); more tastefully, a launching pad would have been the discovery of the (ever-marketable) Sellers episode.

Secondly is the received impression that either "most of it's been released" or "the archival situation is a mess". Well, the archival situation is in flux; exactly what exists, particularly as regards mute film sequences, needs to be properly sorted out. Most people seem to be going by Thompson's biography of Cook, which is often confusing and sometimes simply misleading. The fact is that eight complete shows survive:

Series One: Pilot (50 mins), One, Two, Three, Five (all 45 minutes)
Series Two: One, Seven (30 mins each), Christmas special (50 mins)

So, FIVE HOURS AND FORTY MINUTES, not including the monochrome clips or the surviving series three material; leaving a full 3 hours unreleased. That is, sports fans, the same again as the amount of material that has been released (3x 25 min compilations and, later, the 100 minute video).

And sure, this includes the torch singers and the jazz interludes and the outside monologists, but you don't discount Terry Gilliam animations in MP as "not part of the show" because they're not live-action sketches. The musical breaks, tedious or old-fashioned as they may be (I happen to like them) are part of the flow of NOBA in the same way.

NOBA is a seminal series - and not only that, extremely funny (true, the first couple of episodes, with their McGrath-Fuest bits and a couple of overlong film segments are a bit dodgy) - as well conceived and performed, in the main, as it is influential. And to limit the awareness of it to "The Best of Cook and Moore" (the show itself, its name, tone and format, not only reduced in stature but entirely ignored and subsumed into the identities of its stars; the series should be allowed to exist outside them, in the same way as even 'Fawlty Tours' exists outside of John Cleese and Connie Booth) is, I feel, a tragedy equal (or close to) the wiping of the original tapes. What good is the existence of all the wonderful material that is extant if we are either not allowed to see it in its original context, or at all?

William

[Matthew North]

Geoff said:

Do you plan on offering them to the Beeb?

Well I have already sent listening copies to the archivist, and the better quality versions are now on my laptop being burned to cd and then will be sent in the post later on today.

Oh and Ive just gone through the Reel and the Steptoe episodes thet were on it were the whole of Serise 4 from the original Transmissions (as some of the notes in the box tally with the orig tx dates)



Matt

[Paul Vanezis]

Further recoveries...

Tonight I have been going through the collection of a comedy enthusiast who recorded many radio and tv shows from the early sixties onwards on audio tape.

I will start a different thread with everything listed. However, there does seem to be 2 further episodes from series 3 amongst these tapes.

The gentleman recorded the 18/02/1970 and the 18/03/1970 editions.

However, he also recorded something on 30/08/1976 which was also a 'Not Only...'.

Anyone have any idea what that could be? A repeat of some sort?

Regards,

Paul

[Geoff Sear]

Hurrah, two from the 3rd series as well. This is turning into a deluge! Really great news, about this and the other stuff this chap recorded. I think I might be compelled to do a dance round the room once I've posted this
Might the one from 1976 be a repeat of the "Best Of" thing from '74, which was the surviving film bits from Series 3, plus some new linking material filmed in New York? Still exists, though I've never seen it. Or, if not that, when was the BBC version of Behind the Fridge/Good Evening shown?
You say these are line recordings of some kind too, which promises well for the quality. Thanks so much for telling us about this so promptly. Hope we get a chance to hear this soon, can't wait

[Paul Vanezis]

Thanks Geoff.

Take a look at the new 'Further recoveries' thread. I think that will amuse you even more.

I will try and get these transferred as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Paul

[William NZ]

Poets Cornered!
Poets Cornered!
POETS CORNERED!
With Spike Milligan, no less!

And Pete and Dud on Racial Prejudice!

Phenomenal