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Post by Andrew Haddow on Mar 4, 2012 17:50:04 GMT
Hello everyone, first time poster.
I very much enjoyed reading Wiped, and browsing this forum, and I have a question.
We all know that very few missing Doctor Who episodes have been returned in recent times, but I wondered if there had been any episodes found in the last decade that already existed in the archives, whether from private collections or returned by foreign stations? For example, The Romans/Daleks episodes that Paul Vanezis detailed in a recent thread.
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Post by Charles Daniels on Mar 4, 2012 18:08:02 GMT
Hello everyone, first time poster. I very much enjoyed reading Wiped, and browsing this forum, and I have a question. We all know that very few missing Doctor Who episodes have been returned in recent times, but I wondered if there had been any episodes found in the last decade that already existed in the archives, whether from private collections or returned by foreign stations? For example, The Romans/Daleks episodes that Paul Vanezis detailed in a recent thread. I'm not sure about in the last decade, but wasn't Dominators 5 returned by Australia in 1995?
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Post by Bobby Clark (synthpopalooza) on Mar 4, 2012 18:25:39 GMT
The ex-BBC employee who returned episode 2 of The Dalek Master Plan, also had a copy of episode 5 of The Daleks.
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Post by simonashby on Mar 4, 2012 18:33:21 GMT
I do wonder what might be out there. For example, The Time Meddler prints were of such a poor quality that VidFIRE would not work convincingly. Someone may knowingly hold copies of the story in better condition, but since the BBC holds the story, we may never know about any such copies.
The same goes for any suppressed prints that may be out there, when the BBC only hold stored recordings.
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Post by Dave Wood on Mar 4, 2012 19:02:41 GMT
BBC originally only had an edited print of The Time Meddler part 1 from Nigeria (without the TARDIS scene). I seem to recall that the complete print was returned via Ian Levine shortly before the 1990s repeat on BBC2. The complete version had been doing the fan circuits for some time. I recall having a ropey VHS copy of it mid-1980s and not even realising it was a bit special.
BBC already had a full but comparatively poor quality copy of The War Machines 2. The prints recovered from Nigeria were better quality but edited.
I seem to recall that a better copy of Reign of Terror 3 was returned from a private collector sometime after the original recoveries of 1-3.
There were two versions of Faceless Ones 1 doing the rounds back in the 1980s. One version had the shooting of the policeman edited down.
There also seemed to be two versions of Moonbase 4 doing the rounds at the same time. One version had the "next week The Macra Terror" caption. I remember being very peed off as the copy on the VHS Cybermen Years was a lot worse quality than the pirate copies doing the fan circuits. Thankfully that's all been made good with the Lost in Time DVD set.
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Post by Andrew Haddow on Mar 4, 2012 19:41:13 GMT
Yes, that's it. Even though, for example, The Daleks is held in complete form, it would be interesting to know which episodes have been returned since, where from, and if there was an interesting story behind it's return.
I know most people are only interested in missing material but discoveries of existing material tell us something as well.
The last Who story returned from a TV station was 20 years ago (Tomb) which is such a long time ago that it's seems unlikely any episode will be returned from a similar source again. But if, for example, ABC in Australia returned Episode 7 of The Daleks in 2004, and Nigeria found another print of Reign of Terror episode 1 in 2009 (which they didn't obviously), it would be interesting to know. Perhaps it could be an article in the next Nothing At The End of The Lane? A complete list of previously existing material returned to the BBC?
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Post by John Wall on Mar 4, 2012 19:51:32 GMT
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Post by Andrew Haddow on Mar 4, 2012 20:06:18 GMT
I wonder what the most returned episode of Doctor Who is?
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Post by Brad Phipps on Mar 4, 2012 20:46:39 GMT
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Post by Brad Phipps on Mar 4, 2012 20:48:29 GMT
BBC already had a full but comparatively poor quality copy of The War Machines 2. The prints recovered from Nigeria were better quality but edited. I thought it was the other way round. The War Machines 2 was full screen whereas the Nigerian prints were zoomed in. Then again I can't remember the quality discussion.
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Post by Andrew Haddow on Mar 4, 2012 21:20:01 GMT
So since 2004 the only full episode finds have been three episodes in 2011 - Galaxy 4: 3, Underwater Menace: 2, and the Romans episode in Essex?
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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 4, 2012 21:20:19 GMT
I wonder what the most returned episode of Doctor Who is? Episodes were being returned to the BBC all the time; it's just that prior to the establishment of the official Archive in 1978, none of those were kept, nor was a record of their return made. (Or, if one ever existed in the first place, such a register has not been found; if so, such discussions as these would be redundant! Pre-1978, the most returned would probably be from the first three serials, as copies of those were flying around all over the place for 'audition' purposes. Post-1978, as far as anyone knows, no more than two copies of the same episode has ever been returned.
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Post by Brad Phipps on Mar 4, 2012 21:31:05 GMT
So since 2004 the only full episode finds have been three episodes in 2011 - Galaxy 4: 3, Underwater Menace: 2, and the Romans episode in Essex? As far as I'm aware, yes. Then as I said I'm still getting back into Who so I quite possibly could have missed some.
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Post by Brad Phipps on Mar 4, 2012 21:33:57 GMT
Post-1978, as far as anyone knows, no more than two copies of the same episode has ever been returned. 3 copies of The Web Planet 2 have turned up since 1978; the original Film Library audit (1978), in Ian Levine's Villier's House discovery (1978) and from Nigeria (1985).
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Post by Jon Preddle on Mar 4, 2012 21:45:17 GMT
Post-1978, as far as anyone knows, no more than two copies of the same episode has ever been returned. 3 copies of The Web Planet 2 have turned up since 1978; the original Film Library audit (1978), in Ian Levine's Villier's House discovery (1978) and from Nigeria (1985). Sure, but only two of those were 'returned'.
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