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Post by garysrothwellx on Feb 18, 2014 20:38:28 GMT
Is there a calendar link for all the remaining work left to be done with what remains (animations, recons, etc.) of the missing episodes? And when they'll be released? Crusade and Menace are left. Menace july ish at the mo. And Crusade already on seemingly permanent hiatus
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Post by shellyharman67 on Feb 18, 2014 20:51:35 GMT
Crusade and Menace are left. Menace july ish at the mo. And Crusade already on seemingly permanent hiatus Yes, it seems there is a couple of reasons for crusade not being done.
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 18, 2014 23:18:05 GMT
Crusade and Menace are left. Menace july ish at the mo. And Crusade already on seemingly permanent hiatus
Permanent hiatus? You make it sound as though it was planned at one point.
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Post by John Andersen on Feb 18, 2014 23:27:37 GMT
Yes, I am afraid some people have interpreted the symbolic gesture in different ways. With things just starting to quiet down over the last couple of months, adding potential fuel to the fire might not have been a good idea. Deliberate ? Maybe ! the fire has to stay alight for when the time is right there will be a hiatus of this that and the other, people will be finger ready over their i-pads ! Thats if there is more to come ! Keeps the fire burning ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I don't know it it was done deliberately to get a response, but he might be frustrated with the entire situation. Rumors have been circulating for well over a year, and many fans are already frustrated.
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Simon Collis
Member
I have started to dream of lost things
Posts: 536
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Post by Simon Collis on Feb 18, 2014 23:32:48 GMT
Deliberate ? Maybe ! the fire has to stay alight for when the time is right there will be a hiatus of this that and the other, people will be finger ready over their i-pads ! Thats if there is more to come ! Keeps the fire burning ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I don't know it it was done deliberately to get a response, but he might be frustrated with the entire situation. Rumors have been circulating for well over a year, and many fans are already frustrated. It reminds me of the hype surrounding new product launches from Apple and all the speculation that goes on there. Except with Apple you know there's going to be some shiny new iBollocks at the end of it, whereas all we know is Enemy is out on DVD and Web soon will be. Most everything else turns out to be a hoax - a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 19, 2014 0:53:05 GMT
Unfortunately, missing episodes can't be pulled out of a hat like a rabbit. Going back a couple of years who would have predicted that Airlock and UM2 would have turned up ? Nobody !
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Post by garysrothwellx on Feb 19, 2014 2:03:42 GMT
And Crusade already on seemingly permanent hiatus
Permanent hiatus? You make it sound as though it was planned at one point.
Good point - i think it was due to the one time general consensus that all stories with only up to 2 episodes missing would be done at some time as they would be the ones to be finacially viable, which now seems to have been a guideline rather than anything else.
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Post by johnforbes on Feb 19, 2014 8:39:21 GMT
@ Edhipkiss Dick Fiddy, Ian Levine, (and now) Steve Roberts, amongst others are of the opinion that PM has got a big stash of stuff(DW inc or not). But, to hoard, one needs something to hoard. And so far, even with that original 3 tons shipping manifest that IL held, there is not one shred of hard evidence in the form of a film can or reel, that ANY tv other than the little bit recovered was recovered. To house the "tens of thousands" of cans that DF alluded to, there'd have been ships coming in to Liverpool on a weekly basis. And PM would need a hell of a large dust free/humidity free vault to house them in good conditions. Such vaults are like money, they don't just grow on trees. As far as is known, one ship came in, but that doesn't mean to say it was solely British tv, PM could have put anything in that container. Of course it is not in the best interests of any of the supposed cans to wait until (insert day, month, year). No matter what storage conditions exist, the films are still subject to entropy. Is PM so heartless that he will gladly stand by and watch people like Barry Letts (and others who are still alive) die, before getting one last chance to see their work whilst he is still searching / negotiating / preening ? Somehow, I really, really, really, don't think he is THAT bad. At this point in time, people like IL are extremely frustrated. Probably they hoped that a physical search would have lead to more, indeed, if others had gone to the trouble of going to some of these places like Sierra Leone, Nigeria etc years ago rather than accepting a telephone call at face value at the time, there WOULD have been more than 9. Sad fact is, they didn't go, because humans are too trusting, and even more lazier. PM got us 9 back. I really don't think it is helpful for DF, IL, SR,(and fans,)to try and put public pressure on PM to hand something back which he quite clearly doesn't even have. If THEY had got off their backsides and gone to look, they wouldn't have such sour grapes towards someone who actually did. You're obsessed with this one shipment aren't you! I think there were many shipments, it's just that one which coincidentally came to light. It's my belief that PM / TIEA has recovered a substantial amount of material, is working to a plan, and is not over-worried what the rest of us think. End of story in fact. We can fill up a lot of threads debating it, and Levine can break the internet with his twitters, but only one guy is controlling what happens next. PS and I don't enyy him the malaria. My father had that, all his life. Not obsessed with one shipment. However, there is NO evidence to say that anything else came in apart from the one solitary slip that IL held. You may have a belief that PM recovered a substantial amount of material. But, there is not one molecule of evidence to back that belief up. On the contrary, most of the places in Africa bicycled their stuff on to the next buyer in line. THAT IS FACT !! Most places in Africa therefore DIDN'T have ANY material (DW or w/e else) to find. Places that might have had material, were checked. ZNBC was swimming in vinegarised film and Nigeria had 1 address to look in. "Tens of thousands of cans of film" is as unlikely as a cow jumping over a blue moon with a cat sat on its back playing the fiddle while Rome burns.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 19, 2014 9:02:04 GMT
That's right, unfortunately ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) The prints were quite expensive and had to be shared amongst as many broadcasters as possible.
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Post by johnforbes on Feb 19, 2014 9:03:59 GMT
I've had a look at the interview with Steve, thanks Marty for the post. Obviously, it's a very interesting piece and Steve is a senior guy whose words carry some weight. However, just because MP was sold to more countries than any other, it DOES NOT mean it is more likely to be found than any other. We have 4 eps of DMP, and that wasn't sold anywhere. Besides, MP went around in the same bicycle chains that all of the others did so it was just passed on more, but it WAS passed on and NOT kept. PM has said in an early interview that he has DW's fans' best interests at heart. He has also stated via his site last summer that TIEA hold NO MORE eps of DW. If Steve is saying, without one shred of evidence, having (apparently) seen not one more can of film of any TV material whatsoever than anyone else, that PM has got more eps of DW, then frankly I call that absolutely brilliant speculation. IF, and that is a MASSIVE if, PM has got anything else apart from the 2 TSAN's, 11 DW's and the can of tar that was a M&W in a previous life, all of which he handed back in, plus an ep of Basil Brush that he has not handed back in, then PM was obviously lying in making that public statement and nothing that he says in the future will ever be able to be believed. And IF, PM has got anything else, far from "having DW's best interests at heart", by lying, and then waiting (insert number of months) to hand whatever back, letting people closely associated with the making of/acting in, those episodes, die before getting the chance to see them again, FAR from showing he had DW's fans' best interests at heart, he'd be showing everyone that he only has PM's pocket at heart. Even as a fan who is wanting some sort of return on your find, could YOU be THAT heartless just to keep a secret ? If MP is back, as Steve believes and suggests to the public that it is, then it is highly likely that other missing episodes were found with it, specifically, Crusade and Reign. Personally, on one hand I would like to think that by coming out with his statements, SR is being a little conservative with the truth and knows for sure that MP is back and he wants to get the ball rolling a little quicker. But, given that it is human nature to burst rather than keep a secret, that not one person has claimed to have seen one more can of anything whatsoever, then personally, I FIRMLY believe that PM has got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LEFT. "I used to believe in the omnirumour but then reality kicked in" !! Mmmmmmm....aside from the fact that phil said tiea held no episodes of dr who......then proceded to provide web and enemy...(totally understand his reasons for the secrecy...same goes for paul v and steve r on this issue). Something as commercially viable as these cans need to be protected. Tiea is not the only archival company out there. To have someone undercut them by doing it cheaper could be disastrous for who fans. Of couree its fustrating but thats life. But I do think it is JUST as speculative to say pm has absolutely nothing left as it is to say he has 96. Time will tell. I personally will wait until phils search is over and the spoils are declaired before believing either side of the argument. Thats my opinion anyway. If one looks at the timing of the TIEA anouncement, those 11 eps are likely to have already been given to the RT by that time. Therefore making the web statement correct. (No eps of DW because he had already given back all that he had) @ Edhipkiss, it may be a hard pill to swallow,that 11 DW, TSAN, M&W plus a BB that PM still has is all that he found after a search. But, like I said in a post above, countries bicycled stuff on, so there really, really, really wasn't a massive haul somewhere in wonderful storage conditions just waiting to be found. Imho 1 storage container, the slip of which IL held, was sufficient to bring back those and any other scraps that he found. Given that he knew it would be unlikely he would be returning to Africa since he had effectively decided to change his proffession, that container would likely contain his personal belongings as well. The slip was for 3 tonnes. That includes the weight of the container itself as well. "Tens of thousands of cans" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ?? "Significant haul" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? Absolutely no way. In a few weeks it will be a year since he handed anything back in, I think that in itself puts into perspective just how much he really found out there. I live in a country that now seems to be on the brink of a civil war. And the gulf of difference between both sides seems to be the same gulf between the omnirumour and reality.
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 19, 2014 11:04:32 GMT
The problem will be trying to prove the negative. At the end of the day, it is entirely possible he's holding on to everything and plans to return pretty much everything all at once. If that is the case, then he must have been really in luck, because the stuff he has returned so far was all in a "worrying state" which turned out in the case of the Doctor Who episodes (the film can for Web 6 has a corrosive substance on it, thankfully only the can was damaged) to be a false alarm thankfully, but sadly the same couldn't be said for the M&W episodes (with one effectively reduced to mush).
Really, that is the best we can take out of it, if he is hoarding the recovered footage, if anything desperately needs looking at, he'll hand it over as soon as possible.
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Post by Simon Jailler on Feb 19, 2014 11:16:00 GMT
Perhaps people are waiting for the WOF DVD to go on sale and to monitor sales before there are any developments. They'd not want sales undermined by competing missing/recovered episodes and the sales might determine any financial terms to be finalised for other returns.
Pure speculation on my part and not hard reasoning as posted by John F and others further above. It's difficult to place hope above some of that hard logic but I live in hope above cold expectation. It's what being a fan of a sci-fi show is to me, all about.
Hopefully we won't have to rely on the Daily or Sunday Mirror for breaking news again.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Feb 19, 2014 13:53:31 GMT
Perhaps people are waiting for the WOF DVD to go on sale and to monitor sales before there are any developments. They'd not want sales undermined by competing missing/recovered episodes and the sales might determine any financial terms to be finalised for other returns. Pure speculation on my part and not hard reasoning as posted by John F and others further above. It's difficult to place hope above some of that hard logic but I live in hope above cold expectation. It's what being a fan of a sci-fi show is to me, all about. Hopefully we won't have to rely on the Daily or Sunday Mirror for breaking news again. You cant say there is no more. We just dont know ! But the probability is that there is more. Awaiting Mr Walls response ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by richardfitzgerald on Feb 19, 2014 14:30:11 GMT
The problem will be trying to prove the negative. At the end of the day, it is entirely possible he's holding on to everything and plans to return pretty much everything all at once. If that is the case, then he must have been really in luck, because the stuff he has returned so far was all in a "worrying state" which turned out in the case of the Doctor Who episodes (the film can for Web 6 has a corrosive substance on it, thankfully only the can was damaged) to be a false alarm thankfully, but sadly the same couldn't be said for the M&W episodes (with one effectively reduced to mush). Really, that is the best we can take out of it, if he is hoarding the recovered footage, if anything desperately needs looking at, he'll hand it over as soon as possible. I've bolded this part of your comment above because I think it hints at how PM has been taking a practical approach throughout. Note that everything he returned to the BBC had a "time-critical" element to it - leaving aside the condition of the DW prints it's obvious the impact two (near) complete Troughton serials being returned would have in the run-up to the 50th anniversary celebrations and so it proved with the publicity gathered. The Sky At Night finds brought great pleasure to the veteran Patrick Moore before his death while the M&W print was in such a state that if anything at all could be retrieved from it work had to start asap. So in each case, a clear pressing reason existed to lodge the material back with the BBC. Which brings us to the Basil Brush show - the only other find PM has mentioned but which has NOT been returned as of yet. And why should it? With respect to Basil, there is no active fanbase clamoring for a new release of archive material, his creator Ivan Owen died several years ago and the film itself is in a stable viewable condition (how else would PM know The Kinks guested on it as that sort of info wouldn't have been on the film can) So there is no imperative to do anything with it right now, a position the BBC seems happy with at the moment. Which leaves the question - if these were the only things PM recovered, how likely would it be that almost all of them had these exceptional factors associated with them. Isn't it much more likely PM has found substantial material (whether dozens, hundreds or whatever number of film cans) and only returned the items that really needed immediate attention for whatever reason. That doesn't suggest he has any more complete DW serials of course, but maybe more orphan episodes?
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Post by adamjordan on Feb 19, 2014 15:10:25 GMT
Unfortunately, missing episodes can't be pulled out of a hat like a rabbit. Going back a couple of years who would have predicted that Airlock and UM2 would have turned up ? Nobody ! I'm so glad the missing episode hunt didn't end with those two. Day of Armageddon was a wonderful episode to get back all those years ago. As a full stop that was a great way to end...it seemed. If Web and Enemy are the last survivors, I'll go with that.
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