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Post by Simon Jailler on Feb 18, 2014 9:12:09 GMT
Many thanks for providing this Marty - most enlightening (or not).
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Post by Marty Schultz on Feb 18, 2014 9:26:16 GMT
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Post by edhipkiss on Feb 18, 2014 10:16:48 GMT
Thanks for this - was wondering what Ian was on about too. Ian was also pretty clear that if there are missing episodes (of which he is clearly very convinced) The Restoration Team simply don't have them and Phil is "hoarding" them. So Steve's clarification about not being aware of any recoveries certainly rings true.
My big concern in all this however, is if there are more Missing Episodes (of any TV, not just Doctor Who) in Phil's hands and he's waiting to hand them over once his global search is concluded, does this not increase the likelihood of the prints degrading further? Does he have the facilities to essentially "freeze them in time"? Not handing any recovered material over ASAP seems like neglect to me if they are not in pristine condition. The RT team would be best placed to assess and preserve the contents.
But we're in danger of getting back into discussing the merits of the Omni-Rumour again, which I've no wish to do. I just really wanted to note that whilst handing it all back in one go might be cheaper from the POV of Phil's company, I'm not sure it's in the best interests of the material itself (and all the experts seem to be of the opinion there is more material, not necessarily Who material).
As always my attitude remains "wait and see" in terms of more recovered missing episodes. I just question some of the theory behind the supposed hoarding. But hey what do I know I just buy the stuff!
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Post by Simon Jailler on Feb 18, 2014 10:36:04 GMT
It's high stakes stuff but I'm certain that having gone to so much trouble, no one would allow retrieved material to turn into tar on their watch.
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Post by johnforbes on Feb 18, 2014 10:59:36 GMT
@ Edhipkiss
Dick Fiddy, Ian Levine, (and now) Steve Roberts, amongst others are of the opinion that PM has got a big stash of stuff(DW inc or not).
But, to hoard, one needs something to hoard. And so far, even with that original 3 tons shipping manifest that IL held, there is not one shred of hard evidence in the form of a film can or reel, that ANY tv other than the little bit recovered was recovered.
To house the "tens of thousands" of cans that DF alluded to, there'd have been ships coming in to Liverpool on a weekly basis. And PM would need a hell of a large dust free/humidity free vault to house them in good conditions. Such vaults are like money, they don't just grow on trees.
As far as is known, one ship came in, but that doesn't mean to say it was solely British tv, PM could have put anything in that container.
Of course it is not in the best interests of any of the supposed cans to wait until (insert day, month, year). No matter what storage conditions exist, the films are still subject to entropy.
Is PM so heartless that he will gladly stand by and watch people like Barry Letts (and others who are still alive) die, before getting one last chance to see their work whilst he is still searching / negotiating / preening ? Somehow, I really, really, really, don't think he is THAT bad.
At this point in time, people like IL are extremely frustrated. Probably they hoped that a physical search would have lead to more, indeed, if others had gone to the trouble of going to some of these places like Sierra Leone, Nigeria etc years ago rather than accepting a telephone call at face value at the time, there WOULD have been more than 9.
Sad fact is, they didn't go, because humans are too trusting, and even more lazier.
PM got us 9 back. I really don't think it is helpful for DF, IL, SR,(and fans,)to try and put public pressure on PM to hand something back which he quite clearly doesn't even have.
If THEY had got off their backsides and gone to look, they wouldn't have such sour grapes towards someone who actually did.
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Post by Simon Jailler on Feb 18, 2014 11:15:13 GMT
Strong words there, John F. The words "hornets', nest, a, stirring, could, be & you" spring to mind.
Why not allow someone to make a truly exhaustive search before all that rampant speculation is quashed by news that there are no more episodes in any TV stations to be found or worse still (and this makes me feel ill), what was found has deterioated beyond restoration? I'd like to stay optimistic though and hope that there are more finds out there waiting to be announced.
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Post by steveb on Feb 18, 2014 11:25:26 GMT
@ Edhipkiss Dick Fiddy, Ian Levine, (and now) Steve Roberts, amongst others are of the opinion that PM has got a big stash of stuff(DW inc or not). But, to hoard, one needs something to hoard. And so far, even with that original 3 tons shipping manifest that IL held, there is not one shred of hard evidence in the form of a film can or reel, that ANY tv other than the little bit recovered was recovered. To house the "tens of thousands" of cans that DF alluded to, there'd have been ships coming in to Liverpool on a weekly basis. And PM would need a hell of a large dust free/humidity free vault to house them in good conditions. Such vaults are like money, they don't just grow on trees. As far as is known, one ship came in, but that doesn't mean to say it was solely British tv, PM could have put anything in that container. Of course it is not in the best interests of any of the supposed cans to wait until (insert day, month, year). No matter what storage conditions exist, the films are still subject to entropy. Is PM so heartless that he will gladly stand by and watch people like Barry Letts (and others who are still alive) die, before getting one last chance to see their work whilst he is still searching / negotiating / preening ? Somehow, I really, really, really, don't think he is THAT bad. At this point in time, people like IL are extremely frustrated. Probably they hoped that a physical search would have lead to more, indeed, if others had gone to the trouble of going to some of these places like Sierra Leone, Nigeria etc years ago rather than accepting a telephone call at face value at the time, there WOULD have been more than 9. Sad fact is, they didn't go, because humans are too trusting, and even more lazier. PM got us 9 back. I really don't think it is helpful for DF, IL, SR,(and fans,)to try and put public pressure on PM to hand something back which he quite clearly doesn't even have. If THEY had got off their backsides and gone to look, they wouldn't have such sour grapes towards someone who actually did. You're obsessed with this one shipment aren't you! I think there were many shipments, it's just that one which coincidentally came to light. It's my belief that PM / TIEA has recovered a substantial amount of material, is working to a plan, and is not over-worried what the rest of us think. End of story in fact. We can fill up a lot of threads debating it, and Levine can break the internet with his twitters, but only one guy is controlling what happens next. PS and I don't enyy him the malaria. My father had that, all his life.
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Post by edhipkiss on Feb 18, 2014 11:26:24 GMT
@ johnforbes
Whilst I agree with you regarding putting pressure on PM to hand it over before he's good and ready, I find it ridiculous to suggest that PM found, in the whole of Africa and where ever else he's covered so far, 11 episodes of Doctor Who, 1 Sky At Night and a vinegarised Morecombe and Wise and that's it.
Now, it's a whole other argument as to whether any of the alleged hoard is actually missing material, but as has been repeated on this forum ad nauseum, even prints of existing material are important in case they are better copies or uncut. Why would someone like Ian Levine have a twitter-tantrum over nothing? Clearly he has heard something and is keen to smoke it out. As I say, I'm uncomfortable with trying to force Phil's hand but why do it if he wasn't reasonably sure there is *something* to be gained from doing it? You could of course be entirely correct but it seems an incredibly small haul after scouring the entire planet!
I also think your accusation of Ian at al being lazy is VERY unfair. In hindsight of course it's easy to see that Ian could have personally tried to strike up enough trust with the Nigerian TV people (for example) to let him fly over and personally check their inventory himself. But the fact is they DID return lost episodes when asked. Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to assume if they say "that's all we have" that they are telling the truth. No one deliberately holds back half of what they have when it's easier to say "sorry, we've got nothing here" if they just want to fob you off. Handing over only a few is a very elaborate way of doing it if they were! And let's not forget, when Phil first suggested personally searching for missing episodes, ON THIS VERY FORUM, Ian was the only one who encouraged him. Everyone else just ridiculed his idea!
That said, I agree that storage facilities aren't exactly easy to come by, which was the point of my post in the first place. If there are "tens of thousands" of cans and they are not being handed straight over as they are found, how are they keeping them in optimal condition for when the time is right?
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Post by Alex Dering on Feb 18, 2014 12:24:49 GMT
IN the outtakes of the RFS interview, the point is made by SR that PM: 1. has more episodes, 2. isn't holding them back arbitrarily, 3. has some sort of a plan.
Okay. What's his plan? At this point, I've put the Omnirumour aside, but I'm willing to still believe a few other episodes have been recovered. So what would be PM's motive? It has to be something both reasonable and unavoidable. If I had the cheekbones, I'd be able to deduce it. ...
Anyone?
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Post by Peter Ledwith on Feb 18, 2014 13:16:17 GMT
I've had a look at the interview with Steve, thanks Marty for the post. Obviously, it's a very interesting piece and Steve is a senior guy whose words carry some weight. However, just because MP was sold to more countries than any other, it DOES NOT mean it is more likely to be found than any other. We have 4 eps of DMP, and that wasn't sold anywhere. Besides, MP went around in the same bicycle chains that all of the others did so it was just passed on more, but it WAS passed on and NOT kept. PM has said in an early interview that he has DW's fans' best interests at heart. He has also stated via his site last summer that TIEA hold NO MORE eps of DW. If Steve is saying, without one shred of evidence, having (apparently) seen not one more can of film of any TV material whatsoever than anyone else, that PM has got more eps of DW, then frankly I call that absolutely brilliant speculation. IF, and that is a MASSIVE if, PM has got anything else apart from the 2 TSAN's, 11 DW's and the can of tar that was a M&W in a previous life, all of which he handed back in, plus an ep of Basil Brush that he has not handed back in, then PM was obviously lying in making that public statement and nothing that he says in the future will ever be able to be believed. And IF, PM has got anything else, far from "having DW's best interests at heart", by lying, and then waiting (insert number of months) to hand whatever back, letting people closely associated with the making of/acting in, those episodes, die before getting the chance to see them again, FAR from showing he had DW's fans' best interests at heart, he'd be showing everyone that he only has PM's pocket at heart. Even as a fan who is wanting some sort of return on your find, could YOU be THAT heartless just to keep a secret ? If MP is back, as Steve believes and suggests to the public that it is, then it is highly likely that other missing episodes were found with it, specifically, Crusade and Reign. Personally, on one hand I would like to think that by coming out with his statements, SR is being a little conservative with the truth and knows for sure that MP is back and he wants to get the ball rolling a little quicker. But, given that it is human nature to burst rather than keep a secret, that not one person has claimed to have seen one more can of anything whatsoever, then personally, I FIRMLY believe that PM has got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LEFT. "I used to believe in the omnirumour but then reality kicked in" !! Mmmmmmm....aside from the fact that phil said tiea held no episodes of dr who......then proceded to provide web and enemy...(totally understand his reasons for the secrecy...same goes for paul v and steve r on this issue). Something as commercially viable as these cans need to be protected. Tiea is not the only archival company out there. To have someone undercut them by doing it cheaper could be disastrous for who fans. Of couree its fustrating but thats life. But I do think it is JUST as speculative to say pm has absolutely nothing left as it is to say he has 96. Time will tell. I personally will wait until phils search is over and the spoils are declaired before believing either side of the argument. Thats my opinion anyway.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Feb 18, 2014 13:20:09 GMT
IN the outtakes of the RFS interview, the point is made by SR that PM: 1. has more episodes, 2. isn't holding them back arbitrarily, 3. has some sort of a plan. Okay. What's his plan? At this point, I've put the Omnirumour aside, but I'm willing to still believe a few other episodes have been recovered. So what would be PM's motive? It has to be something both reasonable and unavoidable. If I had the cheekbones, I'd be able to deduce it. ... Anyone? Marketing and profit ( but not in the bad sense,just economic necessity that's all).
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Post by shellyharman67 on Feb 18, 2014 13:53:52 GMT
And if some were not complete, would we want 2 eps animated only to find he found the other 2 later on ? Of course cash is a big factor.
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Post by Robbie Moubert on Feb 18, 2014 14:14:23 GMT
if others had gone to the trouble of going to some of these places like Sierra Leone, Nigeria etc years ago rather than accepting a telephone call at face value at the time, there WOULD have been more than 9. Sad fact is, they didn't go, because humans are too trusting, and even more lazier. <snip> If THEY had got off their backsides and gone to look..... Yeah, 'cause it's that easy. Give me strength.
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Post by John Green on Feb 18, 2014 15:57:27 GMT
Peter.If I told someone that their granny had died,when I knew that she only had a cold,I'd be doing more than practicing secrecy...
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Post by John Wall on Feb 18, 2014 16:16:37 GMT
It seems clear that PM hasn't told anybody anything, but the world and his wife are "sure" that he's found more missing Dr Who.
Some people really ought to be more careful what they say as it just keeps the rumour mill turning....
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