Missing Episode Rumours

[Martin Kinsella]

Sept 5, 2013 17:07:29 GMT davidstead said:

I doubt we will know anything about anything before Paul is ready. There may be nothing at all in any of the rumours, but as I called paul two weeks before the announcement of the two eps of terry's in 2011, with the correct info and was deliberately mislead, by someone I thought was a friend and trusted one at that. After all he was the one who suggested the cover story when I had rescued Death to the Daleks part one (full version 625) from a watery grave at woodlands, in that it supposedly was supplied from the amatuer tv society, who had a copy. That cover story was used for a long time. There are other matters I wont elaborate on now where both paul and I were involved. You would have thought someone who has helped recover material and was archive asst at the archives wouldn't be left out of the loop as it were. It seems now I have retired down south, it's out of sight out of mind!

I wouldn't necessarily trust anything Paul comes out with....I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just talking from personal experience.

So hopefully this post wont be 'accidentaly or deliberately removed.

But the two episodes were all dealt with on a "need to know" basis.

Don't forget the bigger prize. Paul has said that, following the receipt of the first episode, had he not been dealing with it personally then it is unlikely we would have got the second episode back.

Paul could not even tell Dan Hall.

[Jason G]

Sept 5, 2013 18:10:12 GMT davidstead said:

I have just had a peek at the website for Philip Morris's TIEA. It seems their 'latest news' section is blank and 'being updated'. Anyone know if that's been like that for long? Interesting nevertheless!

Been like it since I first became aware of them earlier this year.

[Jaspal Cheema]

However,he is probably only a 'patsy' so to speak.The real subterfuge probably comes from the various BBC departments who tell their staff or affiliates what to say or do.You shouldn't really blame the poor bloke,he's only stuck in the middle.I'd do the same if I was in that situation.And you know what,either knowingly or unknowingly he's created a web-site which provides a lot of fans with a great deal of pleasure and one which really caters for Dr.Who missing-episode obsessives ( alright,alright I mean me )!

[davidstead]

As far as I'm aware Paul is not a BBC employee now.

[Martin Kinsella]

Sept 5, 2013 17:59:29 GMT davidstead said:

that of course is supposedly true, but it doesn't explain away the fact I was deliberately misled two weeks before the announcement, when I spoke to him while he was in the presence of Steve R and Peter C and then subsequently later that evening in a 121 via mobile.

I was I must say concerned in a recent post where Paul said he was reluctant to give Airlock back after tfr. They were and still are legally owned by Terry as Paul was well aware. Any programmes found on film by collectors are legally owned if bought as a 16mm film from another collector (no matter how they were originally obtained - obviously discounting stealing). The copyright is always retained by the BBC (or others depending what is found). But there is no legal obligation to hand them back to the BBC (or others).
That's why it's difficult for the BBC to take a stand other than they presently do. It would deter collectors from returning stuff and could cost them quiet a bit in legal proceedings.

I also feel if someone has the luck to find a missing programme these days, with the digital methods of tfr, there is no real need for the BBC to retain the original film print and after all the collector didn't have to hand a copy back, he was doing it for the love of television programmes, so why should he keep what he recovered.

Well obviously I do not know what Paul said to you but was not part of the reason for only telling a handful of people, on a need to know basis, to support Dick Fiddy's excellent MBW event which needed a boost as attendances were flagging ?

I strongly suspect if he could have told you he happily would have done so, especially as you are mates. Same goes for Dan Hall who he could not tell.

I too shared your concern at that comment about the film. It is hardly likely to encourage people to come forward knowing one of the people they may be dealing with would be reluctant to return your property. Perhaps Paul meant he had an emotional bond to the episode rather than anything malign.

The Beeb should be grateful to collectors for preserving the material they threw away.

[Martin Kinsella]

Sept 5, 2013 18:26:49 GMT davidstead said:

As far as I'm aware Paul is not a BBC employee now.

No. Freelances.

[Ron Merritt]

Sept 5, 2013 17:07:29 GMT davidstead said:

I doubt we will know anything about anything before Paul is ready. There may be nothing at all in any of the rumours, but as I called paul two weeks before the announcement of the two eps of terry's in 2011, with the correct info and was deliberately mislead, by someone I thought was a friend and trusted one at that. After all he was the one who suggested the cover story when I had rescued Death to the Daleks part one (full version 625) from a watery grave at woodlands, in that it supposedly was supplied from the amatuer tv society, who had a copy. That cover story was used for a long time. There are other matters I wont elaborate on now where both paul and I were involved. You would have thought someone who has helped recover material and was archive asst at the archives wouldn't be left out of the loop as it were. It seems now I have retired down south, it's out of sight out of mind!

I wouldn't necessarily trust anything Paul comes out with....I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just talking from personal experience.

So hopefully this post wont be 'accidentaly or deliberately removed.

I'm sure this has been covered in the past but just curious what was the reason for the cover story for Death to the Daleks? If it was returned and known about why the need to not tell the truth at the time? I also remember when Tomb was found that a cover story was given for the rumors that it was a redundant copy of An Unearthly Child I think it was.

[Crawford.P]

Sept 5, 2013 18:25:34 GMT davidstead said:

apparently the facebook page hasn't been updated since June 20th.

When did the large amount of rumours start?

The Current rumour (Omnirumour) got really big on the 13th of June when Bleeding cool publshed an article about it.

[Martin Kinsella]

Sept 5, 2013 19:14:55 GMT Crawford.P said:

Sept 5, 2013 18:25:34 GMT davidstead said:

apparently the facebook page hasn't been updated since June 20th.

When did the large amount of rumours start?

The Current rumour (Omnirumour) got really big on the 13th of June when Bleeding cool publshed an article about it.

It was on here well before that date.

Sadly the posts are no longer here

[davidstead]

Hi Ron,

The cover story was created for Death part 1, as I preferred to stay anonymous regarding the various recoveries and rescues I was involved in during my time at the beeb. It was Paul V. (for the Missing years Doc) & Richard Molesworth who persuaded me to indentify myself when writing his Wiped book. There are still a few things that are due to me, but not included in the book, but I think earlier posts on this site have covered some of those.

As far as a cover story for Tomb, I never knew there was any? The story with Tomb as explained in Wiped, and briefly in the missing years documentary, is that I was, in 1992, working at BBC worldwide's Production Operations Dept (the original dept that Pam Nash worked for when the f/r's of 'Who' were made/junked.). I received a call from an old friend Bruce Campbell, who mentioned that there were some episodes on their way back from Hong Kong, but it wasn't known exactly what. I then immediately popped down to despatch and there were several packages wrapped in brown packing (some of which had been already opened!, by whom and why, it has never been accertained. I checked those, then the other unopened ones and there were 4 plastic cans with Dr Who story MM on them. To save them mysteriously disappearing, I grabbed them and locked them away after having the shock of my life discovering from the leaders that it was Tomb. The films were then taken the following morning directly to David Jackson at BBC Video so they could be used for tfr for release on video - had they gone to the archive first, the copy used for release would have been a copy print off a duplicate negative of the prints (nowadays the episodes are usually taken from the master prints or neg, straight to digital form, but not back then).
Adam Lee was none to pleased they were returned initially to BBC Worldwide, but as David Jackson told him (I know as David told me with a wry smile on his face), the prints were made by enterprises and returned to enterprises(Worldwide), so they were enterprises property first and foremost, so he had every right to have use of them first for home video, before sending them to the Archive for permanent storage.

I only became aware of them after that call from Bruce Campbell, so if anything was known about them before that date, that may have been where a cover story may have originated from (poss Adam Lee), but I've never been aware of any cover story for them, until you mentioned there apparently was one!

Hope that helps clarify things a bit.

[Deleted]

It's always very interesting hearing the stories behind some of the key recoveries, David! So thanks for sharing with us.

[Ash Stewart]

I definitely remember reading about the Unearthly Child cover story in DWB; as I recall (and if I get the chance I'll pull out the issue in question and see what it says) it was because at the time the BBC were doing a run of repeats for each Doctor, and the talk was that if wind was got of the recovery Tomb may have been selected as the repeat, rather than Mind Robber; on the reasoning that if it was shown on telly before the video release it would mean a big dent in sales.

Edit; yes, above is mentioned in DWB #99, pages 2-3.

[Craig Pinner]

Anyone know why the missing episodes thread on GB had suddenly been locked?

[Ron Merritt]

Thanks for the reply David, that's some really interesting reading.

[Richard Tipple]

Sept 6, 2013 13:00:12 GMT Craig Pinner said:

Anyone know why the missing episodes thread on GB had suddenly been locked?

I wouldn't read much into it. I've always considered that site to be run moronically. The absolute abhorrence at any direct link to Doctor Who material while their site is fully plastered in ripped images further underlines my point.