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Post by Brad Wolfe on Feb 20, 2020 23:32:21 GMT
I, along with a small but dedicated team, recently finished colourising an entire Hartnell era episode. It premiered in LA (GallifreyOne convention) on the weekend and was enjoyed by over a thousand people. I heard several stories about younger fans who had never watched early Dr. Who because they didn't engage with black and white footage. So for some this was their first exposure to the early years of the show. I desperately want to see this! The sixties is my favourite era. I'll always prefer the black and white, but it will always be there, so I welcome the experience of seeing the stories colourised (let's face it, they would have been in colour if it were an option). Here's hoping this will appear as extra on the Season 3 BluRay set when it eventually materialises? Or on the official BBC YouTube channel?
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Post by Luke Sherlaw on Feb 21, 2020 15:13:38 GMT
I'm grateful that the 60s episodes were made in black and white. It adds a certain ambiance and je ne said quoi to them. Some of them would look great in colour (The enemy of the world, perhaps) but some of them are just perfect in B&W. The Web of fear is an obvious candidate.
That being said...colourising these episodes is no easy feat and it's to be applauded. It'd be nice to get some younger ME hunters onboard too I suppose!
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Feb 22, 2020 9:30:16 GMT
The episodes were made in B&W and that's how I want to see them. The directors knew they were taping/filming in B&W and set up their lighting and scenes accordingly. Colorization destroys what the director intended. For the same reason I never watch movies dubbed into english from another language, or movies cropped to make them fit on a 4:3 screen (instead of lettebox) or stretched to fit on a 16:9 screen (instead of pillarboxed). I guess I am a purist -- I want to see it how it was made. The Pertwee episodes, of course, are a completely different story - they were made in color, so colorization makes perfect sense. Saying that,you could go even further and say that the 16mm B/W film copies of the Pertwees should be left as they are as well.Mind of Evil was superb when released as a B/W film print on VHS all those years ago,much more effective and atmospheric than the re-colourised DVD version.Shame the B/W film print wasn't included as an extra.Hopefully it will be on any future S8 blu-ray box-set.
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Post by simonashby on Feb 22, 2020 11:31:23 GMT
The episodes were made in B&W and that's how I want to see them. The directors knew they were taping/filming in B&W and set up their lighting and scenes accordingly. Colorization destroys what the director intended. For the same reason I never watch movies dubbed into english from another language, or movies cropped to make them fit on a 4:3 screen (instead of lettebox) or stretched to fit on a 16:9 screen (instead of pillarboxed). I guess I am a purist -- I want to see it how it was made. The Pertwee episodes, of course, are a completely different story - they were made in color, so colorization makes perfect sense. Saying that,you could go even further and say that the 16mm B/W film copies of the Pertwees should be left as they are as well.Mind of Evil was superb when released as a B/W film print on VHS all those years ago,much more effective and atmospheric than the re-colourised DVD version.Shame the B/W film print wasn't included as an extra.Hopefully it will be on any future S8 blu-ray box-set. No, you can't. The situations aren't even comparable. The b/w film recordings were a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in distributing material to other broadcasters, and certainly not anything to do with the original production (and the director's/production team's intention).
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Feb 22, 2020 11:55:21 GMT
Saying that,you could go even further and say that the 16mm B/W film copies of the Pertwees should be left as they are as well.Mind of Evil was superb when released as a B/W film print on VHS all those years ago,much more effective and atmospheric than the re-colourised DVD version.Shame the B/W film print wasn't included as an extra.Hopefully it will be on any future S8 blu-ray box-set. No, you can't. The situations aren't even comparable. The b/w film recordings were a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in distributing material to other broadcasters, and certainly not anything to do with the original production (and the director's/production team's intention). I know Simon,but in terms of nostalgia nothing smacks of the 1970s more than what was a pristine colour programme now only existing as a B/W film print!
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Post by simonashby on Feb 22, 2020 15:35:02 GMT
No, you can't. The situations aren't even comparable. The b/w film recordings were a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in distributing material to other broadcasters, and certainly not anything to do with the original production (and the director's/production team's intention). I know Simon,but in terms of nostalgia nothing smacks of the 1970s more than what was a pristine colour programme now only existing as a B/W film print! But but but... you're now talking about something completely different to the point you were making in the first place. If you did know, as you point out to me, you wouldn't have written it in the first place! It's so clearly nonsensical! In any case, I'd suggest what you are pining for is extremely niche and not likely to happen.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Feb 23, 2020 16:52:23 GMT
I know Simon,but in terms of nostalgia nothing smacks of the 1970s more than what was a pristine colour programme now only existing as a B/W film print! But but but... you're now talking about something completely different to the point you were making in the first place. If you did know, as you point out to me, you wouldn't have written it in the first place! It's so clearly nonsensical! In any case, I'd suggest what you are pining for is extremely niche and not likely to happen. Simon luv,I know exactly what you're talking about but I'm talking my subjective view of colorization and how much I enjoyed Mind of Evil in it's raw B/W state and that's the whole point surely?What if the colorization technology had never been developed or episode 1 of Invasion of the Dinosaurs had never been found,then we might not only have had to watch B/W 3rd Doctor episodes but possibly a Pertwee animation. And besides, it can't be niche because Mind of Evil was released in 1998 as a best-selling B/W VHS release! 😂
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Post by simonashby on Feb 23, 2020 22:15:59 GMT
Simon luv,I know exactly what you're talking about but I'm talking my subjective view of colorization and how much I enjoyed Mind of Evil in it's raw B/W state and that's the whole point surely?What if the colorization technology had never been developed or episode 1 of Invasion of the Dinosaurs had never been found,then we might not only have had to watch B/W 3rd Doctor episodes but possibly a Pertwee animation. And besides, it can't be niche because Mind of Evil was released in 1998 as a best-selling B/W VHS release! 😂 Nope. The original point was about watching a programme/film as the director originally intended. A b/w copy of a colour programme was a result of a technical/commercial limitations, not because the production team wanted it that way. It has nothing to do with that you subjectively like. If colourisation technology hadn't progressed to the point where B/W Pertwees could be seen in colour, or even animated if totally lost, is a completely irrelevant point of discussion. Partly because that is not the case anyway, and partly because we'd just have to make do. Again, nothing to do with the point of discussion. Merely a nonsensical tangent. I don't know the sales figures of The Mind of Evil, however, people bought the VHS because they wanted to see that serial. The fact that it was in B/W was a technical limitation that has now been overcome. B/W was, at the time, the only way to see it. Now we have a colour version a B/W version is now just a niche interest. The B/W version is further away from the original than the recoloured version. Just because you love the B/W version so much doesn't make your take on the above points correct. All evidence/facts suggest otherwise, no matter how you dress it up.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Feb 24, 2020 4:33:39 GMT
No, you can't. The situations aren't even comparable. The b/w film recordings were a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in distributing material to other broadcasters, and certainly not anything to do with the original production (and the director's/production team's intention). Surely the B&W 1960s episodes were also a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in filming and broadcasting material. That there's been no completely B&W Doctor Who episodes made in over 50 years suggests that it wasn't typically done as an artistic choice.
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Post by Richard Tipple on Feb 24, 2020 9:31:25 GMT
No, you can't. The situations aren't even comparable. The b/w film recordings were a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in distributing material to other broadcasters, and certainly not anything to do with the original production (and the director's/production team's intention). Surely the B&W 1960s episodes were also a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in filming and broadcasting material. That there's been no completely B&W Doctor Who episodes made in over 50 years suggests that it wasn't typically done as an artistic choice. I agree with this. It wasn't high-cinema, it wasn't an artistic choice. It was an economic compromise. That said I adore B&W Doctor Who, and personally feel it's the strongest era of the show. I would never want them to never be available in this format, as originally screened. There's a wonderful nostalgia to them. That said, if younger fans need an 'in', something that opens this era up to them then a colour episode (or story) is a smart way to go imo. I appreciate certain quarters will - let's be honest - hate colourisation, however good the results/intention. I'd like to thank you all for the kind comments, and hope this episode will see a wider audience at some point. It's certainly worth seeing as it does give a good impression of how this could have looked in colour. Plus you've got Hartnell, Purves, Courtney, Stoney, Daleks, jungle planets, spaceships, and flamethrowers - what's not to love?
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Post by simonashby on Feb 24, 2020 12:51:51 GMT
No, you can't. The situations aren't even comparable. The b/w film recordings were a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in distributing material to other broadcasters, and certainly not anything to do with the original production (and the director's/production team's intention). Surely the B&W 1960s episodes were also a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in filming and broadcasting material. That there's been no completely B&W Doctor Who episodes made in over 50 years suggests that it wasn't typically done as an artistic choice. Two different situations. The production team/director of a programme made in B/W knew what they were dealing with. The technical limitations (B/W is the only choice) set out the "rules" and production would have tailored and optimised the programme they created accordingly. The same goes for the production of a colour programme. However, then having B/W copies of it made afterwards - by a completely different set of people in a completely different part of the BBC, had nothing to do with the original production team and their creation/creative intentions. Doesn't matter how highbrow you think the productions were. This is about the objective and logical truth. That all being said... I have nothing against colourisation as an addition to the originals. My main point was about the lack of logic behind the suggestion that The Mind of Evil should be left in B/W... I shan't repeat myself, it's all there to read!
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Post by brianfretwell on Feb 29, 2020 10:02:14 GMT
2 Points. 1. Also with the B&W cameras of the time actual colours on set may not have been natural to achieve a good B&W image (ie the green of the TARDIS consul to prevent overloading the tube).
2. The B&W film prints that were used for the recolourisations actually contained the original colour sub-carrier (but not the reference burst at the start of the line) as with Pal videotape so really it was nothing different to playing back the tape as that is a B&W signal that is coloured on playback.
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Post by Richard Tipple on Mar 5, 2020 16:16:28 GMT
It's frustrating how one person saying something factually incorrect starts an avalanche of posters looking to put him straight - and in doing so it veers the discussion off-topic.
Anyway...
For those interested, the colourisation of 'Day of Armageddon' will be premiered in the UK for the first time on the 9th May 2020. 'G'Day of the Doctor' is a fundraiser for the Australian bushfire relief and is being held at London's Royal Vauxhall Tavern. There's plenty of big names coming down, including Katy Manning, Janet Fielding and Nicola Bryant... there's even a VERY special guest who'll be announced tonight on Twitter. Search for the hashtag #SavetheGday or follow me, @farfromallover
Tickets will go on sale Monday 9th March and are expected to sell quickly.
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Post by brianfretwell on Mar 21, 2020 17:00:28 GMT
I only hope the pub will be open again by then.
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