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Post by Steven Sigel on Aug 8, 2013 18:29:49 GMT
I think the answer to the first question can be answered by the question of whether the BBC would have produced these in colour in the 1960s if they could have. If there's an episode or scene that makes more sense artistically in B&W then keep it in B&W. I don't think that question is relevant -- they DID make them in B&W and therefore the costumes, lighting, cinematography etc. were done with the knowledge that it would be in B&W regardless of what the preference might have been. There were shows made in color before their time (so to speak) - the 1950s superman series in the US was shot in color after the 2nd series - but was shown in B&W on TV. They filmed it in color specifically because they knew that eventually it would be possible to broadcast in color and they wanted to be able to capitalize on that. The BBC could have done the same had they so chosen (it probably wasn't worth the additional cost for them). I'm not saying that they shouldn't colorize them if they want to - but I for one would have zero interest in watching them - it would be someone else's interpretation, not the director's - the mood and presentation would be completely different.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 19:07:02 GMT
There were shows made in color before their time (so to speak) - the 1950s superman series in the US was shot in color after the 2nd series - but was shown in B&W on TV. They filmed it in color specifically because they knew that eventually it would be possible to broadcast in color and they wanted to be able to capitalize on that. The BBC could have done the same had they so chosen (it probably wasn't worth the additional cost for them). I'm not saying that they shouldn't colorize them if they want to - but I for one would have zero interest in watching them - it would be someone else's interpretation, not the director's - the mood and presentation would be completely different. Quite a few British TV shows that were being made in colour a few years before it was possible to see them in that format - The Avengers being a notable one, the 5th series being shot on 35mm colour film during 1966 and the transmissions of all of that was in b+w in the UK... wasn't until Channel 4 came along we Brits finally got to see those in colour as made. Then there were the various Lew Grade ATV filmed series from the mid to late 60's. Then there was the third series of "Dad's Army" which they started shooting in early 1969 and the earlier episodes were broadcast in b+w, the switchover to colour occurring around three quarters of the way through the showing of that series with I think "Branded" being the first episode to be broadcast in colour. Also, colour TV in the UK didn't really start to take off until around 1972 or 1973 so the first few years of colour TV would had still been watched by most in b+w anyway. That didn't alter the way the TV companies shot or showed the material.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Aug 8, 2013 20:15:29 GMT
It would be someone else's interpretation, not the director's - the mood and presentation would be completely different. Yes, that's true. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Different, yes.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Aug 8, 2013 21:24:40 GMT
On my TV I simply lowered the Colour setting to 0, and there was Verity Lambery and Sydney Newman in B&W instead of colour. Well I'm delighted for you. It still doesn't alter the fact that for certain set ups, turning the colour settings down is impossible.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Aug 8, 2013 22:08:01 GMT
On my TV I simply lowered the Colour setting to 0, and there was Verity Lambery and Sydney Newman in B&W instead of colour. Well I'm delighted for you. It still doesn't alter the fact that for certain set ups, turning the colour settings down is impossible. I'd be really surprised to learn that there are many TV's out there with no colour control. I don't see how the set-up would impact it ... it's surely only the monitor, which would have it's own controls. But if there were ... wouldn't one simply buy one that does if that's important? BTW, do you know the source of that Newman interview?
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Post by Michael D. Kimpton on Aug 8, 2013 22:39:25 GMT
I wouldn't mind seeing a novelty version for a DVD, with say one episode for each story being done that way, as it would be easier and cheaper.
I'd love, for example, a Special Edition of The Mind Robber with Episode 5 (as pretty much all the characters are in it) being colourised as a special feature, and if Marco Polo was found, I'd love to see a bonus of all 7 episodes colourised, though the odds of that being affordable, or the serial itself being recovered, are extremely unlikely.
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Post by Alan Hayes on Aug 8, 2013 22:57:36 GMT
Well I'm delighted for you. It still doesn't alter the fact that for certain set ups, turning the colour settings down is impossible. I'd be really surprised to learn that there are many TV's out there with no colour control. I don't see how the set-up would impact it ... it's surely only the monitor, which would have it's own controls. But if there were ... wouldn't one simply buy one that does if that's important? I've certainly had a couple of TVs in the past 10-15 years that had no colour control whatever on RGB sources. What Richard says is quite true.
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Post by John Endicott on Aug 8, 2013 23:04:03 GMT
I'm not saying that they shouldn't colorize them if they want to - but I for one would have zero interest in watching them - it would be someone else's interpretation, not the director's - the mood and presentation would be completely different. what if they got the original director (in the case of episodes where the director is still alive) in to oversee the colourization? would that be acceptable then?
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Post by John Endicott on Aug 8, 2013 23:05:40 GMT
I'd love, for example, a Special Edition of The Mind Robber with Episode 5 (as pretty much all the characters are in it) being colourised as a special feature, and if Marco Polo was found, I'd love to see a bonus of all 7 episodes colourised, though the odds of that being affordable, or the serial itself being recovered, are extremely unlikely. Sadly, the odds of it being affordable are better than the odds of a recovery of all 7 episode being likely.
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Post by Alan Hayes on Aug 8, 2013 23:40:20 GMT
I'm not saying that they shouldn't colorize them if they want to - but I for one would have zero interest in watching them - it would be someone else's interpretation, not the director's - the mood and presentation would be completely different. what if they got the original director (in the case of episodes where the director is still alive) in to oversee the colourization? would that be acceptable then? Having seen the Legend Films colorisations that were done in collaboration with Ray Harryhausen (and are pretty poor), I'm sure I'd rather put my trust in an experienced, expert colorist/grader than in an original director.
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Post by John Endicott on Aug 9, 2013 0:22:05 GMT
what if they got the original director (in the case of episodes where the director is still alive) in to oversee the colourization? would that be acceptable then? Having seen the Legend Films colorisations that were done in collaboration with Ray Harryhausen (and are pretty poor), I'm sure I'd rather put my trust in an experienced, expert colorist/grader than in an original director. I don't disagree. However the poster I was replying to seemed to put large stock in only wanting "the director's vision".
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Aug 9, 2013 1:29:13 GMT
For Mind of Evil, it was necessary to have an additional budget to colorize one episode of a story that should have already existed in color anyway. In other words, the colorization was an additional expenditure for that DVD.
By contrast, let us suppose that all the classic black-and-white stories get released on DVD, but the BBC has an interest in selling yet another version of (for example) 'The Aztecs' on DVD. Well, that already exists as a completed DVD (or two, since it exists as a DVD and a Special Edition DVD, plus one disc of bonus materials). A color edition DVD could be identical in content to the previous special edition potentially so the content budget for the colorized edition of 'The Aztecs' could be directed entirely toward the colorization process. Under those circumstances, colorized versions MIGHT be economically feasible, but I don't know that for sure.
I was also always uninterested in colorized versions of old black-and-white shows, but I've warmed up to them some. First of all, colorization is far, far better than it used to be. Secondly, there is a demographic out there, such as children, who can be highly resistant to black-and-white shows. This is why once the original version DVDs have been sold for a time, colorized versions could be contemplated for those who want to by them, if it should prove economically viable to produce them. I think they would certainly sell.
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Post by Steven Sigel on Aug 9, 2013 2:15:43 GMT
I'm not saying that they shouldn't colorize them if they want to - but I for one would have zero interest in watching them - it would be someone else's interpretation, not the director's - the mood and presentation would be completely different. what if they got the original director (in the case of episodes where the director is still alive) in to oversee the colourization? would that be acceptable then? No - for the same reason I want to watch the 1977 original issue of "Star Wars" (before it was called "A New Hope") rather than one of the "improved" versions...
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Post by Michael D. Kimpton on Aug 9, 2013 9:34:29 GMT
"Improved" is quite a nice way of putting it where Star Wars is concerned... More a sort of "Butchered", I'd say.
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Post by jlaird69 on Aug 9, 2013 18:04:39 GMT
what if they got the original director (in the case of episodes where the director is still alive) in to oversee the colourization? would that be acceptable then? Having seen the Legend Films colorisations that were done in collaboration with Ray Harryhausen (and are pretty poor), I'm sure I'd rather put my trust in an experienced, expert colorist/grader than in an original director.
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