|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 25, 2013 22:10:02 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by John Green on Feb 25, 2013 22:57:11 GMT
What a great title.
Nope,hadn't heard about this.Nice one.
Added:It says that the tapes were forwaded to Kaleidoscope a couple of years ago.
If the BBC "turned down" a third series,how were there tapes of it(?) for the producer to take home? Was the recording OKed,but the broadcast nixed?
This site mentions that there are (were?) two episodes missing,but I can't make out what all those listings after the second series are?
|
|
|
|
Post by Christopher Perry on Mar 15, 2013 15:55:06 GMT
These recordings were listed on our last Raiders of the Lost Archives list, in amongst all the other radio items.
Interesting how newspapers make something out of a tiny part of a bigger story :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by Ed Brown on Apr 15, 2013 14:49:59 GMT
I have the consolidated episode guide to this series, 'Lines From My Grandfather's Forehead', which lists all of its broadcasts on Radio 7. There are no missing episodes from series 1 and 2.
Some individual sketches may have been written by, and even recorded by, Ronnie Barker in hopes of a third series; but I don't think it likely that any complete episodes exist.
More probably the recordings in question are rejected sketches, dropped from series 2 due to episodes over-running the allotted 30 minutes - sketches which might have found their way into series 3, if the show had been commissioned for a third series.
|
|
|
|
Post by Christopher Perry on Apr 16, 2013 9:40:54 GMT
These are studio recordings of sessions, for what purpose I don't know.
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisjbrady on Feb 25, 2014 23:37:01 GMT
I have the consolidated episode guide to this series, 'Lines From My Grandfather's Forehead', which lists all of its broadcasts on Radio 7. There are no missing episodes from series 1 and 2. Some individual sketches may have been written by, and even recorded by, Ronnie Barker in hopes of a third series; but I don't think it likely that any complete episodes exist. More probably the recordings in question are rejected sketches, dropped from series 2 due to episodes over-running the allotted 30 minutes - sketches which might have found their way into series 3, if the show had been commissioned for a third series. There are variations in each eps' make up. The versions I heard in NZ in the 1970s had a particular sequence of sketches that through repeated playing I kind of got to know off by heart. The eps. that I heard on R7 last year were slightly different. I think that the Beeb edited the eps. when creating the transcription discs for overseas sales. I think that the cassettes / CDs that the Beeb is selling right now might also have slightly different sketches. |
|
|
|
Post by chrisjbrady on Feb 26, 2014 12:19:41 GMT
Huh - once found the series 3 eps apparently disappeared into a 'black hole' never to be heard of again. AFAIAA they never did get aired on R7 / R4X nor released on CD. Shame.
|
|
|
|
Post by Charles Norton on Feb 27, 2014 14:02:16 GMT
An additional two episodes worth of material was recorded for series 2, that had to be snipped out for timing reasons. I'm not sure how many sketches that adds up to in total, but it's quite a few. The plan was to use these deleted sketches in series 3. A similar thing had apparently happened when they were making series 1. The recorded too much and so excess sketches were cut out and used the following year in series 2 - waste not, want not. Anyway, the BBC never commissioned a series 3 and so the sketches were never used.
Happily, the show's producer (John Fawcett Wilson) had kept all the mastertapes of the series (studio sessions, outtakes, trailers, everything). So, we now have that extra hour's worth of 'series 3' material that has (as yet) never been broadcast.
Keith Wickham, who's been doing a lot of work on the archive comedy for Radio 4 Extra, has assembled all the unbroadcast material into a pair of half-hour episodes, that match the format of the original and go some way to reflect what we would have gotten from series 3 (had it gone ahead).
Last year, Keith took his episodes to Radio 4Extra, who had already broadcast series 1 and 2. However, there was a problem. I don't know exactly what went on. However, recently Radio 4 Extra has been going through some changes in the way it is run, and that might have something to do with it.
Basically, to summarise, 4Extra used to have a station controller called Mary Kalemkerian, who effectively ran the network. She retired recently. However, rather than replace her with another full-time controller, the BBC instead decided to get the head of Radio 4's comedy department (Caroline Raphael) to take over some of her responsibilities and effectively just keep an eye on 4Extra, as an extension of her duties on Radio 4. The result of all this is that Radio 4Extra no longer has a proper commander and chief anymore. There isn't really anyone in charge like there used to be.
4Extra is thought of more as an adjunct to Radio 4, rather than a station in its own right these days. Obviously, this has led to a reduction in the number of 'new' programmes making it to air on 4Extra. To be fair, it's pretty understandable really. Without a full-time controller, no radio station can be expected to be particularly ambitious.
Anyway, Keith came to 4Extra with his Ronnie Barker tapes, right in the middle of all this and I suspect that this might have had something to do with 4Extra's reluctance in moving forward with the idea. Don't forget that it had originally been Mary Kalemkerian who had championed the restorations and broadcasts of series 1 and 2 and she's gone now.
It would require quite a bit of work to clear the new material and it has perhaps been judged that it's just simply too much work for 4Extra to handle with too few resources. Radio 4Extra just can't be as ambitious as it used to be. It doesn't have the same money and backing that it used to.
Quite separately, while Keith spoke to 4Extra about the Ronnie Barker material, I also tried to do what I could. I spoke to AudioGO about an audiobook release for it. Regardless of whether there was a broadcast, this seemed like something worth getting out on CD. So, I had a talk with AudioGO's head of comedy (Duncan Honeyman) about the idea. He liked the notion. We were however already working on a number of other archive discs (including a boxset of all the missing Morecambe and Wise TV episodes) and so we wouldn't be able to press on with the Ronnie Barker stuff for a little while.
Then Duncan Honeyman left AudioGO and took up a new job with the estate of Spike Milligan. This further put the brakes on things, as a period of transition followed at AudioGO's offices in Bath. Michael Stevens started looking after the comedy range and I took up the project with him, in the hope that we could look at the material after we'd finished with the next Dad's Army CD.
Then AudioGO ceased trading and everything stopped. The company has now gone into liquidation.
So, that's where we are now. All the best intentions, but so far every attempt to get this new Ronnie Barker stuff out there has been frustrated. These things happen, I'm afraid (a lot, actually). It's partly a consequence of less hospitable economic situation (both inside and outside the BBC). Blame the Tories - that's always a fairly safe bet.
Anyway, maybe one day the material will finally get picked up again. I'm sure Keith's not given up on it. However, I wouldn't expect anything any time soon.
|
|
|
|
Post by Stephen Byers on Aug 12, 2015 20:26:39 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisstratton on Aug 17, 2015 17:39:38 GMT
Listened to it at noon yesterday....very good programme and very funny!
|
|
|
|
Post by Stephen Byers on Aug 18, 2015 21:24:00 GMT
BUT the first episode's start was TRUNCATED on iPlayer. The intro. was missing, the signature tune was missing, and the recording actually started in the middle of the sketch (the cruise ship captain's announcement).
This is not for the first time. Indeed hundreds of complaints have been made on the Beeb's forums about truncations on iPlayer - yet nothing gets improved. Appalling.
SB
|
|
|
|
Post by Stephen Byers on Aug 18, 2015 21:35:16 GMT
P.S. A friend of mine is having a massive clear out right now and found that he has some reel-reel tapes of this show. They are complete episodes with no truncations. Better than the rubbish recordings put out on iPlayer.
|
|
|
|
Post by Barry Hodge on Aug 18, 2015 21:52:10 GMT
I got both the thus far broadcast episodes and both are complete (as far as I can tell, as both have opening music & announcements at least). Maybe they've reuploaded Ep1 since you heard it, as they often do after they're made aware...?
|
|
|
|
Post by Stephen Byers on Aug 19, 2015 10:08:29 GMT
Barry - you're right
- the first episode was 29.31 mins. first time round - but was truncated at the start; now it is 32.12 mins - and is complete.
- the second episode is 29.52 mins. but does not seem to be truncated (just)
However it is unacceptable in having to listen again after a few days to see if they've corrected matters. I'm not sure if this truncation affects downloads. But if they start charging for downloading then they have to get the uploads right first time. I'm certainly not paying twice for a truncated download, only to have to download an episode again in the chance that it has been replaced with a complete version.
The other question is how is this happening - is the Beeb really capturing its own streams yet getting the timings wrong? If they simply added a minute at either end then programmes wouldn't be truncated, and even with thousands of files available that doesn't add up to much extra storage - especially since storage is so cheap. This appears to be a consequence either of shear incompetence or penny pinching.
Dad's Army, Navy Lark, and loads of other programmes are affected - and folks are not happy.
Maybe someone here with contacts in the Beeb can elucidate why this is happening, and why the Beeb isn't doing anything about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by George D on Aug 20, 2015 14:56:09 GMT
I found lines on my grandfather's forehead also; )
|
|
