Lines On My Grandfather's Forehead found

[darrenlee]

All regular series episodes broadcast by 4 Extra have been essentially the same as the archive.org episodes - they are all '30-minute' episodes. The only variation I noticed is that s2e7 when broadcast with the title 'From 06/03/2009' was 30.03 mins but more recently when broadcast as 'From 20/8/1972' was only 29.37 mins. This was entirely down to a difference in the length of the theme tune at the end. I assume there is a similar thing going on with the archive.org s1e1 (30.29 mins), which is longer than the other episodes because of the longer version of the theme tune at the end. One might argue about which version is 'correct', but I for one am not hugely bothered (the approx. 29.40 min episodes must be more convenient for the schedulers).

To summarise, my working hypothesis is that 4 extra has broadcast in full and in excellent quality all episodes except s1e1, s1e3 and s2e4 (which have not been broadcast at all) and s1esp, which has been broadcast with the last sketch cut.

I imagine the main problem with re-instating the cut sketch in the Christmas episode is there being sufficient will! I am reminded of the final episode of The Burkiss Way which was unnecessarily broadcast in its drastically cut 15 minute version for years (despite earlier being included in its full form in the 3-hour programme 'Celebrate The Burkiss Way') and has only recently started being broadcast uncut as part of the series.

EDIT:  Having heard the final Burkiss Way today, I should correct what I said above.  It's still being broadcast 3 and a half minutes shorter than the presumably uncut version on 'Celebrate ...' (and archive.org) and I don't think it was ever as short as 15 minutes!  

[Stephen Byers]

Great analysis - thank you. So what are the best quality encodes out there? Most OTR sites including Archive.org only have them in MP3 at max 128kbps. Some are only at 32kbps!! If from recent R4E airings they could have been capped in MP3 at 320kbps (say via get_iplayer). What are the encodes on the commercially available BBC cds? And are there any FLACs or WAVs out there?

[darrenlee]

The CDs will be PCM stereo, 44100 Hz, 16-bit, effectively WAVs, like any other audio CD. I don't have the CDs or equivalent downloads, but I am now a little curious having looked them up:

Description of the first '4-episode' 2-CD set includes:

"Among the sketches, Mr Serpent, a sales rep in the Garden of Eden, tries to flog a knowledge course to Eve (‘one bite and you’re a PhD’). A doctor has to give some bad news, but gets more emotional than the patient, and there’s love among the road reports. There’s an exclusive interview with ‘Charlie Chaplin’, some lavatory humour (a sketch set in a manager’s washroom), how to learn baby talk and 'Analysis Through the Looking-Glass'. A baptism causes naming problems, while among the songs is 'What Am I Going to Do About You?' (‘You’re like Everest with all its icy crags / I don’t think I’ll get over you somehow.’)"

I don't immediately place 'love among the road reports' (EDIT: it's S1E8) and 'Analysis Through the Looking-Glass', but if there are 4 genuine episodes as we understand them, that tells me it includes S1E3, S1E6 and S1E8. Yes, S1E3, an episode that 4 Extra does not broadcast ...

Description of the second '4-episode' 'More ...' 2-CD set includes:

"Here, the sketches include: a bizarre slice of Shakespeare, a poem for a man with a plan, and a forgetful actor. There are also people who use lots of words, but say very little. As well as a musing pianist, we also hear a two-headed Great Eccentric, a spoof Paul Temple, and wires get crossed on the telephone."

That should therefore be S2E3, S2E6, S2E7 and S2E8. But when I listen to a 'sample' at sites offering it, I get extracts from S2E2 or S2E5!

[Stephen Byers]

CDs are here ...

====

Volume 1 - Lines - 2xCDs

www.amazon.co.uk/RONNIE-BARKERS-LINES-GRANDFATHERS-FOREHEAD/dp/B00I7T392W/ref=sr_1_1_twi_aud_1

capitadiscovery.co.uk/wandsworth/items/181654?query=collection%3A%22Audio+books%22

Ronnie Barker's Lines from my grandfather's forehead

'Lines From My Grandfather's Forehead' features two series of eight episodes as well as two 'special' episodes. The show starred Ronnie Barker and featured Terence Brady and Pauline Yates, with Gordon Langford at the piano

CD, CD, Audiobook. English.
Published Bath: BBC Audiobooks, 2010

Special episodes!!!!

www.discogs.com/Ronnie-Barker-Lines-From-My-Grandfathers-Forehead/release/7306809

Tracklist
1-1 Episode 1: 1 March 1971
1-2 Episode 1: 1 March 1971
1-3 Episode 1: 1 March 1971
1-4 Episode 1: 1 March 1971
1-5 Episode 1: 1 March 1971
1-6 Episode 1: 1 March 1971
1-7 Episode 1: 1 March 1971
1-8 Episode 1: 1 March 1971
1-9 Episode 1: 1 March 1971
1-10 Episode 1: 1 March 1971
1-11 Episode 2: 22 March 1971
1-12 Episode 2: 22 March 1971
1-13 Episode 2: 22 March 1971
1-14 Episode 2: 22 March 1971
1-15 Episode 2: 22 March 1971
1-16 Episode 2: 22 March 1971
1-17 Episode 2: 22 March 1971
1-18 Episode 2: 22 March 1971
1-19 Episode 2: 22 March 1971
1-20 Episode 2: 22 March 1971
2-1 Episode 3: 5 April 1971
2-2 Episode 3: 5 April 1971
2-3 Episode 3: 5 April 1971
2-4 Episode 3: 5 April 1971
2-5 Episode 3: 5 April 1971
2-6 Episode 3: 5 April 1971
2-7 Episode 3: 5 April 1971
2-8 Episode 3: 5 April 1971
2-9 Episode 3: 5 April 1971
2-10 Episode 3: 5 April 1971
2-11 Episode 4: 23 July 1972
2-12 Episode 4: 23 July 1972
2-13 Episode 4: 23 July 1972
2-14 Episode 4: 23 July 1972
2-15 Episode 4: 23 July 1972
2-16 Episode 4: 23 July 1972
2-17 Episode 4: 23 July 1972
2-18 Episode 4: 23 July 1972
2-19 Episode 4: 23 July 1972
2-20 Episode 4: 23 July 1972

====

Volume 2 - More Lines - 2xCDs

www.amazon.co.uk/Ronnie-Barkers-Grandfathers-Forehead-Classic/dp/1445864460/ref=pd_rhf_eeolp_s_cp_0_1

Here's a further cornucopia of clever comedy, featuring sketches, monologues, poems and songs in this 'sequential entertainment for radio'. The sketches on this recording include: a bizarre slice of Shakespeare, a poem for a man with a plan, and a forgetful actor. There are also people who use lots of words - but say very little. As well as a musing pianist, we also hear a two-headed 'Great Eccentric', a spoof Paul Temple, and wires get crossed on the telephone. Co-written by Gerald Wiley (the pseudonym used by Ronnie Barker) and many others, this sophisticated cabaret-cum-sketch-show contains plenty of witty wordplay. Starring Ronnie Barker, with Terence Brady, Pauline Yates, Josephine Gordon and Dick Abell.

====

[Stephen Byers]

Another audio sample here ...

listening-books.overdrive.com/media/468024

[darrenlee]

So discogs is showing the first CD set as containing S1E3, S1E6, S1E8 and S2E3 (and has corroborative images).



Discogs doesn't seem to have the 'More ...' set. To confuse things further, this site,

www.comedy.co.uk/radio/lines_from_my_grandfathers_forehead/shop/2843/more_audio/,

gives a completely different blurb from other sites, i.e.



'The office party is given a new take and you'll also find these subjects among the sketches on this recording: a day trip to Boulogne, Mr Perch, Edwardian soiree, marriage, the end of the world, the connoisseur, as per estimate, population control, baby-care, a night at the ballet, duel and plain speaking. As well as a special take on Hamlet, there are also the poems The Audience and Curtain.'



I definitely spot S1E2, S2E5 and S2E7 there.



On the other hand, the previews here

itunes.apple.com/gb/album/more-ronnie-barkers-lines-from-my-grandfathers-forehead/506305664?i=506305954

are from S2E2, S2E5, S2E7 and S2E8.



It's all a bit mysterious, but perhaps the audio samples are more to be trusted than the written descriptions (where did they come from if they're wrong??).



I do own this 3-CD set

www.discogs.com/Ronnie-Barker-Ronnie-Barker-At-The-Beeb/release/7306659

which includes numerous LFMGF sketches (though I'm not sure where I've put it). I note that it contains material from S2E4!



So it seems likely that the BBC has S1E3 and S2E4 available and some sort of inertia is all that stops them being broadcast.

[Stephen Byers]

Some transcription discs are now in the OTR domain. Here are scans of the inserts for episodes (sides) 5 / 6 / 9 / 10 / 11 / 12 / 13

Apparently they came from British Guiana many years ago.

If the scribbling on the inserts are a guide the discs have only been played twice, although maybe successive owners have played them too. 

Originally there would have been a set of 7 discs, with 25 mins on each side. The back of the disc for ep. 13 is blank with the TS logo embedded. 

Download link
we.tl/t-Qo9eDKaMyC

1 file
LFMGF-TSD-Scans.zip

Message
LFMGF-TSD-Scans-Inserts

====

[darrenlee]

From the inserts, it's evident that the trans discs are 25 minute versions as follows:

ep5    s1e6

ep6    s1e8

ep9    s2e3

ep10  s2e4

ep11  s2e6

ep12  s2e7

ep13  s2e8

The only cut from the 30 minute episodes that's obvious from the 'cues' is the pre-intro 'Right lads, I want you to go straight into the attack ...' sequence from s2e6.

[darrenlee]

Well, here we go again with 4 Extra kicking off next week, www.bbc.co.uk/schedules/p00fzl7l/2019/08/27, with 'From 22/02/1971' (which is Series 1 Episode 2) followed by 'Episode 3' (which is Series 2 Episode 3) and then 'From 08/03/1971' (which is Series 1 Episode 4).  Still no sign of s1e1 or s1e3 (and they think they can fool us by putting something called 'Episode 3' between s1e2 and s1e4).  Why can't they just play all the episodes in order with their 'proper' 'series x, episode y' titles like most other series?   It's almost as though they haven't read this thread.  Baffling.

[Stephen Byers]

Hi Darren - I've been a bit quiet recently. But I have all of the latest 'Lines...' from R4X using get_iplayer. I've just tried to check Archive.org - but it is down!! Meanwhile I must digitise the TS discs in the next few days ...

[darrenlee]

Here's what we got on the current 4 extra run, with an appearance by all the episodes they ever air:



27/08/2019 'From 22/02/1971'     (Series 1, Episode 2)

03/09/2019 'Episode 3'                (Series 2, Episode 3)

10/09/2019 'From 08/03/1971'     (Series 1, Episode 4)

17/09/2019 'From 15/03/1971'     (Series 1, Episode 5)

24/09/2019 'From 22/03/1971'     (Series 1, Episode 6)

01/10/2019 'From 29/03/1971'     (Series 1, Episode 7)

08/10/2019 'From 05/04/1971'     (Series 1, Episode 8)



25/12/2019 'Sue Perkins' Christmas Comedy Stocking 2' (Christmas Special)



01/01/2020 'Series 2, Episode 1'

08/01/2020 'Series 2, Episode 2'

15/01/2020 'Series 2, Episode 5'

22/01/2020 'Series 2, Episode 6'

29/01/2020 'Series 2, Episode 7'

05/02/2020 'Series 2, Episode 8'



1. There's still no sign of s1e1, s1e3 or s2e4.

2. There's either a conspiracy or genuine error putting s2e3 where s1e3 should be.

3. 'Sue Perkins' ...' is a 'new' one-hour programme, being the second third of the previously broadcast 3-hour 'Sue Perkins' Christmas Comedy Stocking Part 1'. This may be for easier scheduling, but I suspect also to bury the 3-hour 'Sue Perkins' Christmas Comedy Stocking Episode 2', which contained an episode of 'People Like Us' they don't want to air.  In case you think they are starting to get a bit of a grip, have a look here www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00wx9yp/episodes/guide to see how the two 'old' parts are listed as being from a series of 3.  The LFMGF special is still missing the Dylan Thomas parody as before.

[Stephen Byers]

These are from a website ... they are from recordngs dated 2016 but may be earlier ...

Lines From My Grandfather's Forehead (BBC R4)

A sequential entertainment for radio starring Ronnie Barker also featuring Terence Brady and Pauline Yates with Gordon Langford at the piano.

Produced by John Fawcett Wilson

Throughout the series, the lines were contributed by
Tony Bilbow, Mike Fentiman, Terence Brady, John Graham, Harold Pinter,
Myles Rudge, Ted Dicks, Gerald Wiley, Allan Scott, Chris Bryant,
Gordon Langford, Chris Miller, Robert W. Service, Chris Allen, J.H.B. Peel,
Peter Spence, Donald Churchill, David Climie, Charles Mackay,
Spike Milligan, Roger Till, David Nobbs, David McKellar, Peter Vincent,
Donald Monat, June Dixon, W. W. Mayne, Leslie Harris, Michael Palin,
Dylan Thomas, Cyril Bell, Laurie Holloway, Peter N. Christie, Jim Eldridge,
Miles Kington, Roy Lomax, Max Harris, Arnold Brown, Don Currell,
Andy Kelvin, Charles Griffin, J.G. Saxe, Bert Fisher, Christopher Langham,
Katie Moss, Guy Boas, Kevin Paul, Harold Arpthorp, Peter Campbell,
Ted Clayton, Patrick Ennis, and Frank A. Terry.

Gerald Wiley, who contributed many of the lines, and who also wrote for
"The Two Ronnies" was the penname of Ronnie Barker.

===============================================

S01E01 - (Broadcast 15 February 1971)
Missing.

S01E02 - (Broadcast 22 February 1971)
First line: "Good evening. This is an announcement for all passengers..."
Also featuring Josephine Gordon.

S01E03 - (Broadcast 1 March 1971)
Missing.

S01E04 - (Broadcast 8 March 1971)
First line: "Good morning, Mr. Braithwaite. Sit down, won't you?..."

S01E05 - (Broadcast 15 March 1971)
First line: "Aye, you may laugh, Master Marlowe..."

S01E06 - (Broadcast 22 March 1971)
First line: "Could I have the baby, please?..."

S01E07 - (Broadcast 29 March 1971)
First line: "In the House of Commons today..."
Also featuring Peggy Ann Wood.

S01E08 - (Broadcast 5 April 1971)
First line: "Ladies and gentlemen. I have been asked..."

S01ESP - Lines from my Grandfather Christmas's Forehead
(Broadcast 24 December 1971)

S02E01 - (Broadcast 9 July 1972)
First line: "And now at the Albert Hall, we come to the main item in
tonight's concert program..."

S02E02 - (Broadcast 16 July 1972)
First line: "Good evening. I want to talk to you tonight about improvement
grants..."

S02E03 - (Broadcast 23 July 1972)
First line: "We present the last and final episode of 'Paul Chappell & the
Squalid Affair'..."
Also featuring Ann Beach.

S02E04 - (Broadcast 30 July 1972)
Missing.

S02E05 - (Broadcast 6 August 1972)
First line: "And now, before the next programme, there's just enough time
to tell you about some of the exciting things later this
evening..."
Also featuring Dick Abell on banjo.

S02E06 - (Broadcast 13 August 1972)
First line: "Right, lads. I want you to go straight into the attack..."

S02E07 - (Broadcast 20 August 1972)
First line: "He seemed to have so much to say into his neighbour's ear..."
Also featuring John Graham.

S02E08 - (Broadcast 27 August 1972)
First line: "Come in, come in, Mr. Brown..."
Also featuring Dick Abell on guitar.

===============================================

[Stephen Byers]

Jan 24, 2020 16:41:26 GMT darrenlee said:

Here's what we got on the current 4 extra run, with an appearance by all the episodes they ever air:

=== snip ===

1. There's still no sign of s1e1, s1e3 or s2e4.

2. There's either a conspiracy or genuine error putting s2e3 where s1e3 should be.

3. 'Sue Perkins' ...' is a 'new' one-hour programme, being the second third of the previously broadcast 3-hour 'Sue Perkins' Christmas Comedy Stocking Part 1'. This may be for easier scheduling, but I suspect also to bury the 3-hour 'Sue Perkins' Christmas Comedy Stocking Episode 2', which contained an episode of 'People Like Us' they don't want to air.  In case you think they are starting to get a bit of a grip, have a look here www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00wx9yp/episodes/guide to see how the two 'old' parts are listed as being from a series of 3.  The LFMGF special is still missing the Dylan Thomas parody as before.

Downloading using get_iplayer most of the files are tagged [shortened] - implying anti-pc cuts might have been made to items, or intros / outros have been truncated.

This is tagged [original] - Lines_From_My_Grandfathers_Forehead_Series_1_-_Episode_From_22_02_1971_b00g2gm2_original

This is tagged [other] - Lines_From_My_Grandfathers_Forehead_Series_2_-_Episode_1_b008kmkg_other

[Stephen Byers]

Series 1 Episodes 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 appears to be here:

www.discogs.com/Ronnie-Barker-Lines-From-My-Grandfathers-Forehead/release/7306809

Series 1 Episodes 1 / 2 appears to be here:

www.discogs.com/Ronnie-Barker-Lines-From-My-Grandfathers-Forehead/release/13175381

====

[Stephen Byers]

Attachment Deleted

__
Scan of insert to Ronnie Barker @ the BBC - 3 x cd. Includes listings of tracks from LFMGF.

Tracklist
1-1 Ronnie Barker Introduction
1-2 Water Quickie
1-3 Floggit's
1-4 Floggit's 2
1-5 The Navy Lark
1-6 Lines From My Grandfathers Forehead: Forecast
1-7 Ask No Questions
1-8 Sportsnight
1-9 Day Trip To Boulogne
1-10 Laughing Taxman
1-11 A Question From Hampshire
1-12 Justice To Scotland
1-13 Babytalk
1-14 Your Baby 'as Gorn Dahn The Plug 'Ole
1-15 Cabinet In The Sky
1-16 Improvement Grants
1-17 The Weaker Sex
1-18 The Piano Moving Recital
1-19 Chopin In London
1-20 Three Hander
1-21 Old Man Remembers
1-22 The Road To London
1-23 Not Too Tall - Not Too Short
1-24 Opting Out
1-25 Population Control
1-26 The Duel
1-27 The Gravedigger's Wedding
2-1 Speech Day
2-2 Alphonse Loves Lisa
2-3 I Say - Waiter!
2-4 A Remarkable Article
2-5 Marriage
2-6 Susan Simpson
2-7 Trousers
2-8 Irish Mother's Song
2-9 Youth
2-10 Moonlight Sonata
2-11 Hamlet
2-12 Hamlet 2
2-13 Politician
2-14 What's In A Number?
2-15 Road Reports
2-16 An English Gentlemen
2-17 Frost Over England : Class
2-18 Porridge: Prisoner And Escort
2-19 Open All Hours
2-20 The Two Ronnies : Complete Rook
2-21 Cheers
2-22 Cockney Rhyming Slang Vicar
2-23 Lillie And Edie And Sid And George
3-1 Ronnies Reminiscing About The War
3-2 Hearing Aid
3-3 Ronnies At The Bar
3-4 Country Bumpkins
3-5 Morris Men
3-6 The Frost Report: Police Training
3-7 Porridge: A Quiet Night In
3-8 Open All Hours
3-9 The Stars At Night - Patrick Moore's Brother
3-10 Ronnies At The Bar
3-11 Mastermind
3-12 Beans With Everything
3-13 Swear Box
3-14 Fork Handles
3-15 Aldershot Brass Band

====