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Post by Greg H on Dec 20, 2015 7:43:11 GMT
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Post by Stephen John Connett on Dec 20, 2015 10:53:40 GMT
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Post by John Green on Dec 20, 2015 11:07:30 GMT
We have to remember that we lack the specialised training that social-workers have.When I put the phone down on a council-officer in 2004,I litte realised that I was showing a "lack of deference towards social-services which constitutes a risk of significant harm" towards my disabled son.Consequently,I little realised that I should expect to have him removed from home for six years-he's an adult now and is no longer under the aegis of Children's services,thank God-under a now-ended Care order.I can never explain to my son why it was done,nor why Saville and the various Northern abusers were ignored/encouraged,but we were targeted.(The department was found Unfit for Purpose weeks after my son was removed,because it was "taking children as a first,rather than a last resort",but none of the children were released early).
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Post by Greg H on Dec 20, 2015 18:28:49 GMT
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Post by Greg H on Dec 20, 2015 19:56:40 GMT
Something to lighten the mood a bit:
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Post by Peter Stirling on Dec 24, 2015 16:15:39 GMT
Peter, whilst I don't claim to be omniscient, as far as I can see the first allegation of sexually improper behaviour against Savile was as far back as 1955, as the police have recorded it. There were regular allegations from there on. I don't have a precise number of people who have stated that they were either raped or otherwise sexually abused by Savile but it was quite a lot. I honestly don't think there is any doubt that he was a very disturbed person who didn't really have any regard for the lives of his victims in relation to satisfying his sexual appetites. It is my conviction that Savile only remained at large for so long as he had powerful friends who as it happens are now implicated in cover ups of paedophile rings amongst the wealthy and powerful and the systematic abuse of the most vulnerable of young people in the care system who were deemed to be 'worthless'. Let us not forget where he spent every new years eve for 11 years in a row and that that person is broadly accused of covering up for various people in parliament now. This isn't conspiracy theory but a matter of record. You are welcome to disagree with me on this as is your right, but I honestly think the boat has sailed on this one; Savile was guilty as a man can be. He is very fortunate he made the right friends or he would have been locked away from sight long before his death. Greg I am playing devil's advocate here because my chief point of annoyance is the fact that he was dead when this came to light,and without hard evidence you can say anything you like about somebody who is dead and it will be as true as how convincing the tale teller was...and obviously the fact he was not brought to court to defend himself. What you have said brings up another few problems... the post mortem Savile had a wide range of powerful friends who could cover up his foibles, obviously at great risk to their own reputations- why would they do that when it is revealed that the living Savile was not particularly liked by anyone in his industry and kept himself to himself. So can you honestly believe that someone like Prince Charles would have continued to remain associated with someone like that once M15 had had a discretionary word in his ear? (or how about Mossad advising the Israeli Prime Minister when Savile thought he could try and bring peace to the Middle East in the 1970s) You mention the paedophile ring during the Thatcher years this has been investigated by the police for over 2 years and they have found absolutely nothing. The invention of the personal computer was like to bees to honey to all the perverts out there- where is Savile's computer? ....and the acts themselves, perverts tend to stick with one gender, but apparently Savile assaulted the gamut of the human race including men,women ,children, the sick and the dead. |
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Post by James C on Dec 24, 2015 20:55:13 GMT
Is this really an appropriate topic of discussion for a missing episodes forum? Take your politics and conspiracy theories elsewhere.
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Post by Greg H on Dec 25, 2015 9:33:56 GMT
Greg I am playing devil's advocate here because my chief point of annoyance is the fact that he was dead when this came to light, Some might say that is precisely the point. It is now widely known that a network of powerful and rich paedophiles existed (or might still), who were not brought to justice in their own lifetimes. It is documented that several people attempted to whistleblow to the authorities whilst it was happening, but for some reason they were not listened to or were otherwise told to be quiet. None of that is conspiracy theory (which I absolutely loathe) but is documented fact. There was a cover up, to allow certain sections of the establishment to continue doing as they pleased and to save other sections of the establishment from the embarrassment by association with some of their colleagues and mates, who they closed ranks to shield from justice. Whilst Savile may not have been liked by his co-workers in the industry, he evidently was liked well enough by people in powerful positions in the UK to receive various honours: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile#Honours_and_awardsCyrill Smith was knighted too, despite allegedly having been caught several times having sex with minors, all charges of which mysteriously 'went away'. I don't know anything about the Mossad thing you mention there. However there is a very large body of evidence that would strongly suggest that money and influence can buy you immunity from the law that is not afforded to normal people. If you want I will find you a list of wrong minded people the royal family has been associated with, but I recall numerous incidents of association with the nazi party in the 1930s, including photographic proof that came to light recently. And if you look into the history of the investigation, we see a long history of deliberate 'incompetence' such as key documents 'disappearing, relatives and friends of the accused being appointed to key positions in the enquiry. I have to wonder why. It almost seems like deliberate obstruction of justice or some such. I haven't heard that Savile was a whiz with computers. I do not believe illegal porn is freely and openly available; I think it's illegality makes it underground, so if he did own a computer I do not know how much relevance that would have to the various rape and child molestation charges he managed to dodge. Also, speaking as someone who has actually done several work related qualifications in safeguarding kids, I know some deviants have a specific type and some are opportunistic; Savile seems to be the very opportunistic type from the vast body of evidence, someone who wasn't too fussy about how he gratified himself, but with a preference towards abuse, sadism and the macabre. You are welcome to defend him if you like, freedom of speech and all, but I really think you are barking up the wrong tree here; surely it would be closer to 'conspiracy theory' to suggest that somewhere in the region of 500 people colluded to make allegations that Savile raped or abused them? I believe that was the number at the time of publishing of this article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20686219That would be a lot of people telling fibs :/ Which other rich and famous people are going to be royally outed, after they have enjoyed a life of luxury? Anyone's guess really I suppose. If there is any precedent, they will not be held accountable for their actions due to their money or influence. I am not trying to be nasty or aggressive towards you, I just think the boat has well and truly sailed on Savile. If you don't agree, that's cool. |
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Post by Greg H on Dec 25, 2015 9:37:51 GMT
Is this really an appropriate topic of discussion for a missing episodes forum? Take your politics and conspiracy theories elsewhere. I am not certain if this was directed at me specifically or a general comment, however, I would personally state for the record that there is no inappropriate place for condemning child abusers. Ask anyone who has worked with kids who suffer from PTSD and mental health problems arising from abuse. Please see above for my personal views on 'conspiracy theory' which I regard as utter bunk. I am off to enjoy the day now. |
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Post by Peter Stirling on Dec 25, 2015 11:10:33 GMT
Is this really an appropriate topic of discussion for a missing episodes forum? Take your politics and conspiracy theories elsewhere. Of course it is as JS episodes are rapidly turning into missing episodes because of the above reasons. A message board survives on lively topic and debate If the thread subject puts you off ..then read another thread. |
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Post by John Green on Dec 25, 2015 12:55:40 GMT
I'm not seeing one of my sons today because he had his human rights removed,due to his autism,in 2013.There was no full Deprivation of Liberty order because it was said that since he could not define 'freedom'(he doesn't speak or sign) he couldn't know the difference if his rights were removed.The Supreme Court suggested in 2013 that this might be bad law.
All because I put the phone down on a council officer when he refused to act when I tiold him my son's life was at risk from his carer.
I sometimes wonder if the social services' court should be open,so that the public can see what's being done,and more importantly,what isn't.The excuse is that it would humiliate kids if their school-fellows knew that dad was accused of showing a lack of deference to a social-worker.Odd that we can have stories about "Brothel-keeping heroin addict father-of-three Dan Dyslexia of Wrongspelling Road has been found guilty of rape and knicking underwear from washing-lines...
It's almost as though the Family Courts are run in secret to cover social services.
At least I was allowed to have Christmas dinner with my son yesterday,though it looked 'till the last minute that it wouldn't happen.
Steal a little and they'll put you in jail
Steal a lot and they'll make you king. (Dylan)
Saville was too big and too abusive to get into any trouble.If only he'd put the phone down on a local government officer he might have been stopped.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Dec 25, 2015 14:36:36 GMT
I'm not seeing one of my sons today because he had his human rights removed,due to his autism,in 2013.There was no full Deprivation of Liberty order because it was said that since he could not define 'freedom'(he doesn't speak or sign) he couldn't know the difference if his rights were removed.The Supreme Court suggested in 2013 that this might be bad law. All because I put the phone down on a council officer when he refused to act when I tiold him my son's life was at risk from his carer. I sometimes wonder if the social services' court should be open,so that the public can see what's being done,and more importantly,what isn't.The excuse is that it would humiliate kids if their school-fellows knew that dad was accused of showing a lack of deference to a social-worker.Odd that we can have stories about "Brothel-keeping heroin addict father-of-three Dan Dyslexia of Wrongspelling Road has been found guilty of rape and knicking underwear from washing-lines... It's almost as though the Family Courts are run in secret to cover social services. At least I was allowed to have Christmas dinner with my son yesterday,though it looked 'till the last minute that it wouldn't happen. Steal a little and they'll put you in jail Steal a lot and they'll make you king. (Dylan) Saville was too big and too abusive to get into any trouble.If only he'd put the phone down on a local government officer he might have been stopped. Your post reveals just how crazy things are today,and how opinions are formed..... but was Savile that big? he did a Totps once or twice a month and milked the gimmick (having no other discernible talent) of having long bleached hair in the 1960s-70s. He was not even a good interviewer or host . He had one popular TV show 'Jim'l Fix it' it was popular because of the format and the public liked the good that Savile did and that was a hell of a lot, including apparently raising over 40 million quid for charitable causes. Are we really expected to believe that millionaire Savile spent countless hours in hospitals amongst the very sick and distressed so that he could nip down to the mortuary and have a fumble? But I will be convinced once the smoking gun has been found, in the meantime surely innocence until proven guilty surely must prevail? |
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Post by John Green on Dec 25, 2015 15:13:22 GMT
The trouble is...it's often one person's word against another's.When it's several hundred persons' words against one other ,we naturally attach more credibility to the accusations.I hate the idea of abusers going unpunished,but don't greatly like the idea,which seems to be spreading,of guilt by accusation.Whenever a celebrity is found 'not guilty' in a sex case,someone on a Guardian thread will say "No,they weren't found 'innocent' the case was unproven; the verdict was 'not guilty' not 'innocent'".All very Crucible.
I had about a thousand contacts at home with my kids when they were held under Care Orders.Always at home.always unsupervised.They were lodged around the corner,so I'd pick them up and walk home with them holding their hands for safety.I missed just two contacts over the course of several years (because I was in court).One judge called me "an exemplary father" 10 minutes before he ruled,as he was bound to,that I posed "a risk of significant harm" to my sons.(Though not to the 16 year=old who'd chosen to live with me.
Did any of my neighbours see me picking up the kids every day? Apparently not.Did they see the police come round and pin my son's arms behind his back to force him back to the unit in tears,with me crying at his side? Maybe.Are they all convinced I'm an abusive monster because of the Care Orders? Apparently.
I've have no financial support for meeting the needs of my sons for the 60 hours a week they're with me.Tristrum Hunt suggests I use my Carer's Allowance,which gives me an income on the days I can't work,to feed them,heat their rooms.
Nobody's going to give me any civic awards or MBEs.As Hunt said "You want paying for looking after your own children?".
We're being allowed more time together on Monday,because of staffing problems at the unit.
Moan,moan,etc.!
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Post by James C on Dec 26, 2015 20:57:57 GMT
Is this really an appropriate topic of discussion for a missing episodes forum? Take your politics and conspiracy theories elsewhere. Of course it is as JS episodes are rapidly turning into missing episodes because of the above reasons. A message board survives on lively topic and debate If the thread subject puts you off ..then read another thread. Now then now then. |
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Post by John Green on Dec 26, 2015 21:52:16 GMT
My concern is that Saville case and other celebrity ones are leading to the devotion of enormous amounts of resources to discover if disc-jockey x really did touch Miss Mandible's breast at a discotheque in 1968.Have we the means and manpower to bring Johnny 'Disc-Spinner' DuPrix to account,if he is guilty?
I'm also worried that there's a tendency towards guilt-creep (if you'll forgive the expression).So..
Saville was a celebrity,and was abusive.So...
All celebrities are abusive.So...
All the abusive celebrities are men.So...
All men are abusive.
I'm concerned that there's so little celebration of the majority of men who are loving fathers.I believe there's been an anti-man agenda amonst many social-workers since the 1970s.I'm not convinced that the things that they've forwarded-the elimination of fathers from families,more children held in council units-has lead to a diminution of abuse.The 'step-father' who's so often the abuser,is in no legal or familial relationship with the child,but just an acquaintance of the mother's.
It's said that in the Crimean war,when we were allied to the French,one British commander was wont to cheer his troops on with "Let's get the Froggies!".(He was still,mentally,fighting the Napoleonic Wars).Nowadays,we have Neil Morrissey coming to Stoke to make a programme about abuse in Care homes in the 70s.Fine.But why is it so hard for TV to look at the way that today's institutions are run? Today's victims can be helped,and freed.In the words of Buffy St.Marie: "It's here and it's now that we need a hand!".
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