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Post by Ben on Mar 10, 2005 18:23:16 GMT
A lot has been said about such people and I've often wondered if there has ever been any proof that such people exist. As I just said in another thread, I would much rather some selfish hoarder had the episodes than have them lost forever or hanging around waiting for time to destroy them.
I was thinking about Ian Levine's ingenious idea of keeping The Time Meddler episodes he had secret from fandom in order to do a swap for other missing episodes. It's a good idea, I think, which is partly why I ask about hoarders and if they exist. I think that such a trade would more likely be successful now with missing material being such a rareity. Plus, as I've said, it would be nice to know that episodes might just exist even if none of us will ever get to see them.
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Post by Nigel Bland on Mar 10, 2005 19:33:43 GMT
If anyone is hoarding episodes, I doubt we'll ever see them. Once said hoarder has died the episodes will either be passed on to another hoarder, or more likely thrown out by the next of kin. Effectively any such episodes are just as lost as if they had been destroyed.
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Post by Steven Sigel on Mar 10, 2005 21:12:34 GMT
It's extremely unlikely -- if someone really did have some missing episodes stashed away (and knew they were missing) - most likely someone would have heard about it -- it's very hard to keep that a secret. And what would be the motivation behind keeping episodes and never telling anyone you had them? If someone wanted to make money out of them all they would have to do is toss them on ebay and watch the frenzy...
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Post by Stephen Neve on Mar 12, 2005 10:05:20 GMT
It's extremely unlikely -- if someone really did have some missing episodes stashed away (and knew they were missing) - most likely someone would have heard about it -- it's very hard to keep that a secret. And what would be the motivation behind keeping episodes and never telling anyone you had them? If someone wanted to make money out of them all they would have to do is toss them on ebay and watch the frenzy... Not entirely convinced on that one! Steven. Even though I think it would be a very rare occurence, you can't totally dismiss the posibilitiy. Daleks Masterplan 4 dissapeared from Blue Peter along with 10th planet 4 and have bassically vanished without trace. Although it is Likely 10th planet 4 could have been returned at the BBC only ever held the first 3 episodes, BBC enterprises held all four and was continuing to sell the episodes abroad, so Its feasible tenth planet 4 was returned and then junked by enterprises, as for Masterplan 4 their is no evedience to say what ever happened to it. Ian Levine even stated recently the film had a can number, it would be interesting to know if that number appears on a junking list. Now before anybody jumps on the bandwagon I am not stating this posting as fact, only as my personal opion. The motivation of keeping episodes and not telling anyone about them Steven is..... 1. Knowing the fact no one else has it, I've got this and you haven,t... 2. Greed, , the episode would be worth a fourtune, if I retun it It won't be worth so much. Although this is not evedience it proves there are good reasons why episodes may be haoarded. Private collectors are a very secretive lot, in someways its like they have there own secret society, it would be quite easily to keep something secret. I also heard from a posting a few years ago that a missing episode from a different television programme was being hoarded, although I can't be sure of the totaly accurately of this claim, if it was true its proof that such things can happen. Regards |
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Post by William Martin on Mar 12, 2005 15:20:23 GMT
although of the many film collectors/traders I've been in touch with over the years only 1 knew vagely about missing tv, and most of them said that they had come accross TRs in the past but tended to avoid them because no one wanted them!!! we are a very small minority, many of the people most likely to come accross missing TV are still unaware of their importance, but the internet is changing this.
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Post by Steven Sigel on Mar 12, 2005 16:39:31 GMT
To Stephen:
I didn't totally dismiss the possibility -- I just think it's very unlikely. Much more likely would be the case of the guy who had Dalek Masterplan Pt2. He had no idea anyone had any interest in it, and when he found out, he gave it back....
The "I have this and you don't " mentality doesn't work unless you tell someone about it -- you can't gloat if it's a complete secret. And the greed factor only works if you are selling it -- it's not worth anything if it's sitting in your basement collecting dust. And if you start selling copies, then people will find out....
To William: I'm not sure which film collectors you've been talking to -- I've been a film collector for over 15 years and many of my friends know all about missing Tv. And whoever told you that "no one wants telerecordings" has no idea what they are talking about. Even leaving aside Dr. Who telerecordings which are highly desireable (I buy them whenever I find any) T/Rs generally are quite rare and many collectors are always on the lookout for them. I've got quite a number in my collection.
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Post by James W on Mar 12, 2005 20:38:17 GMT
Whilst there is no credible evidence for the existince of hoarders (those who know the value of what they have), there is sadly evidence that there are many people who would happily become hoarders given the chance.
Wondering about this possibility (and wanting a laugh at the existence of Dr Who fans, natuarlly), several years ago I did an ebay missing episode hoax and although many saw through it, i did receive several emails from people offering huge sums of money for a quick, secret sale of the episode. Now, they may have merely wanted to buy themselves the 'glory' of being the one to return the episode to the BBC, but sadly I suspect they may not all have been thinking of sharing the find. Shame.
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Post by LanceM on Mar 13, 2005 18:32:32 GMT
What about those film collectors who travel around to other conutries buying film and telerecordings? They could of traveled to another country bought some films or telerecordings and added them to thier collection, they could be totally un aware of the importance of some of thier collection, just because they have not come accross any information that could tell them what is lost material. I had an idea that some fan's or fan clubs in thier perspective locations or countries could pool some money together and place a sizeable add in a prominent popular newspaper from thier area, listing the search for missing material and what the fans of vintage who are looking for. Who to contact and go about returning some material if they do indeed posess any. Just an idea for episode recovery, any other views or comments would be appreciated.
Thanks, Lance.
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Post by Wright Blan on Mar 14, 2005 3:01:34 GMT
What about those film collectors who travel around to other conutries buying film and telerecordings? They could of traveled to another country bought some films or telerecordings and added them to thier collection, they could be totally un aware of the importance of some of thier collection, just because they have not come accross any information that could tell them what is lost material. I had an idea that some fan's or fan clubs in thier perspective locations or countries could pool some money together and place a sizeable add in a prominent popular newspaper from thier area, listing the search for missing material and what the fans of vintage who are looking for. Who to contact and go about returning some material if they do indeed posess any. Just an idea for episode recovery, any other views or comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Lance. Lance, I'm not even sure if that's legal. I would think that international copyright laws would prohibit such transactions from occuring, especially with film and television. |
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Post by James Phillips on Mar 14, 2005 8:42:30 GMT
What about those film collectors who travel around to other conutries buying film and telerecordings? And which collectors are you referring to..? |
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Post by William Martin on Mar 14, 2005 17:01:26 GMT
To William: I'm not sure which film collectors you've been talking to -- I've been a film collector for over 15 years and many of my friends know all about missing Tv. And whoever told you that "no one wants telerecordings" has no idea what they are talking about. Even leaving aside Dr. Who telerecordings which are highly desireable (I buy them whenever I find any) T/Rs generally are quite rare and many collectors are always on the lookout for them. I've got quite a number in my collection. to a tv buff or TR collector the value of TRs is well known, but the vast majority of film dealers concern themselves with movies rather than TRs, and I can only speak from experience, that almost all of the film dealers I've been in contact with don't know about missing TV(although they do now) and say that their costomers don't wan't TRs because of the poor quality (I don't understand what they mean but thats what they say). and some of these people have been in the business for 30-40 years or more, apparently there were a number of TRs floating about around 25 years ago but as you say they are very rare and most do ask their sources specifically for movies as you know film collecting can be a rather closed business built around networks and word of mouth. perhaps its a geographical thing, where were your contacts made? personaly I've found it a rather frustrating excercise, I nearly got a George Fornby show a couple of years ago but the trail had gone cold. |
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Post by Stephen Neve on Mar 15, 2005 11:35:52 GMT
Lance, I'm not even sure if that's legal. I would think that international copyright laws would prohibit such transactions from occuring, especially with film and television. I belive it has been done actually. |
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Post by Wright Blan on Mar 16, 2005 1:47:51 GMT
I belive it has been done actually. Legally of illegally? |
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Post by Todd on Mar 16, 2005 3:44:17 GMT
It's perfectly legal. It happens on ebay every day. Just look in the 16mm category. There's no legal issue with the actual film prints -- just making copies, or running them in public. There were literally thousands of prints dumped onto the markets in the '80s when the TV distrbutors went to video distribution. The film prints in the warehouses were sold off (here in the US) to collectors. Same is true when a lot of the film rental companies went out of business -- they just sold off all of their prints.
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Post by Stephen Neve on Mar 16, 2005 9:59:22 GMT
Don't Know, Richard Bignell mentioned it in a post on a different thread. |
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