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Post by Andrew Millichip on Jul 20, 2005 23:25:40 GMT
So, am I right that the completely missing episodes of radio Hancock are these ones? Series 1 The Hancock Festival The Department Store Santa Christmas At Aldershot The Christmas Eve Party The Marriage Bureau Series 2 A Holiday In France (Secombe) The Crown Jewels (Secombe) The Racehorse (Secombe) A Visit To Swansea (Secombe leaves) Prime Minister Hancock The Three Sons The Matador Series 3 The New Neighbour The Winter Holiday The Red Planet A Visit To Russia The Trial Of Father Christmas Cinderella Hancock The New Years Resolutions The Breakfast Cereal The Newspaper Also, one of the sites lists 'The Blackboard Jungle' as held by THAS - is this a reference to the copy recently promoted on here, or is one version of superior quality to the other? Stuart @ Ted: Thanks.... Much as I figured unfortunately! @ Stuart: Your list tallies with mine Stuart with one exception. (A clip also survives from one episode that you list as you are probably aware - see below.) AFAIK these are indeed the lost shows at present except that you omitted to include The Diamond Ring (2nd of 1st series, 9-11-54) which was also missing last I heard. Anyone know any different...? It is worth bearing in mind that according to Roger Wilmut's excellent book Tony Hancock - Artiste (a book sorely overdue for an update btw!) the original tape recordings of the 1st radio series were only ever broadcast once in 1954/55. The possibility of off-air recordings of missing episodes having been made and surviving would therefore seem weak... As for series two - the Secombe episodes didn't join the Hancock-lead episodes from later in the series in the between season repeats of Autumn 1955. So the Secombes were only ever broadcast twice with most of the late series two tapes clocking up three broadcasts apiece. Again no off-airs have yet turned up of any of these episodes. Likewise most of the tapes from series three saw only three broadcasts. However, this period would seem to offer the best hope of future recoveries. The series has so far yielded three and a bit off-air recordings (an extract only survives from The New Year Resolutions; 12th of series, 4-1-56). As it appears most likely that these off-airs derive from the re-run of almost the entire series in the Spring of 1956 I would, if pushed, nominate The New Neighbour (4th of series, 9-11-55) and The Breakfast Cereal (15th of series, 22-1-56) as the most likely future recoveries! We can only hope...  The script of The New Neighbour was good enough to be reworked by Galton & Simpson for HHH on TV. Whilst, according to Kenneth Williams, the cast and crew thought that The Breakfast Cereal was terrible! (Do ppl think that the quality of script and performance of a particular episode has any bearing on its likelihood of survival as an off-air?! I suppose it does... weak episodes being more likely taped over in the case of a casual fan-made recording!) Any more news Ted?! |
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Post by Andrew Millichip on Jul 21, 2005 17:56:51 GMT
Ignore my comments re Williams and The Breakfast Cereal! I realised after I posted that I had mixed-up the episode he was referin to in his published diaries. (He was describing the recording of The Newspaper; 17th of the series, 8-2-56.)
My apologies. Serves me right for posting last thing at night!
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Post by Stuart Douglas on Jul 22, 2005 21:56:33 GMT
So, am I right that the completely missing episodes of radio Hancock are these ones? Series 1 The Hancock Festival The Department Store Santa Christmas At Aldershot The Christmas Eve Party The Marriage Bureau Series 2 A Holiday In France (Secombe) The Crown Jewels (Secombe) The Racehorse (Secombe) A Visit To Swansea (Secombe leaves) Prime Minister Hancock The Three Sons The Matador Series 3 The New Neighbour The Winter Holiday The Red Planet A Visit To Russia The Trial Of Father Christmas Cinderella Hancock The New Years Resolutions The Breakfast Cereal The Newspaper Also, one of the sites lists 'The Blackboard Jungle' as held by THAS - is this a reference to the copy recently promoted on here, or is one version of superior quality to the other? Stuart @ Ted: Thanks.... Much as I figured unfortunately! @ Stuart: Your list tallies with mine Stuart with one exception. (A clip also survives from one episode that you list as you are probably aware - see below.) AFAIK these are indeed the lost shows at present except that you omitted to include The Diamond Ring (2nd of 1st series, 9-11-54) which was also missing last I heard. Anyone know any different...? It is worth bearing in mind that according to Roger Wilmut's excellent book Tony Hancock - Artiste (a book sorely overdue for an update btw!) the original tape recordings of the 1st radio series were only ever broadcast once in 1954/55. The possibility of off-air recordings of missing episodes having been made and surviving would therefore seem weak... As for series two - the Secombe episodes didn't join the Hancock-lead episodes from later in the series in the between season repeats of Autumn 1955. So the Secombes were only ever broadcast twice with most of the late series two tapes clocking up three broadcasts apiece. Again no off-airs have yet turned up of any of these episodes. Likewise most of the tapes from series three saw only three broadcasts. However, this period would seem to offer the best hope of future recoveries. The series has so far yielded three and a bit off-air recordings (an extract only survives from The New Year Resolutions; 12th of series, 4-1-56). As it appears most likely that these off-airs derive from the re-run of almost the entire series in the Spring of 1956 I would, if pushed, nominate The New Neighbour (4th of series, 9-11-55) and The Breakfast Cereal (15th of series, 22-1-56) as the most likely future recoveries! We can only hope... The script of The New Neighbour was good enough to be reworked by Galton & Simpson for HHH on TV. Whilst, according to Kenneth Williams, the cast and crew thought that The Breakfast Cereal was terrible! (Do ppl think that the quality of script and performance of a particular episode has any bearing on its likelihood of survival as an off-air?! I suppose it does... weak episodes being more likely taped over in the case of a casual fan-made recording!) Any more news Ted?! I actually have a file on one of my old PCs, from the days when I was trading rare radio stuff by ftp, called 'Hancock - Trial of Father Christmas'. Unfortunteley, it's just an empty place holder file, meaning I had the file in question in a queue of ftp downloads but then never downloaded it (it should have been a little over 7 meg in size). Wish I could remember who I was trading it with... Stuart |
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Post by Ted Rogers on Jul 29, 2005 16:58:20 GMT
@ Ted: Thanks.... Much as I figured unfortunately! @ Stuart: Your list tallies with mine Stuart with one exception. (A clip also survives from one episode that you list as you are probably aware - see below.) AFAIK these are indeed the lost shows at present except that you omitted to include The Diamond Ring (2nd of 1st series, 9-11-54) which was also missing last I heard. Anyone know any different...? It is worth bearing in mind that according to Roger Wilmut's excellent book Tony Hancock - Artiste (a book sorely overdue for an update btw!) the original tape recordings of the 1st radio series were only ever broadcast once in 1954/55. The possibility of off-air recordings of missing episodes having been made and surviving would therefore seem weak... As for series two - the Secombe episodes didn't join the Hancock-lead episodes from later in the series in the between season repeats of Autumn 1955. So the Secombes were only ever broadcast twice with most of the late series two tapes clocking up three broadcasts apiece. Again no off-airs have yet turned up of any of these episodes. Likewise most of the tapes from series three saw only three broadcasts. However, this period would seem to offer the best hope of future recoveries. The series has so far yielded three and a bit off-air recordings (an extract only survives from The New Year Resolutions; 12th of series, 4-1-56). As it appears most likely that these off-airs derive from the re-run of almost the entire series in the Spring of 1956 I would, if pushed, nominate The New Neighbour (4th of series, 9-11-55) and The Breakfast Cereal (15th of series, 22-1-56) as the most likely future recoveries! We can only hope... The script of The New Neighbour was good enough to be reworked by Galton & Simpson for HHH on TV. Whilst, according to Kenneth Williams, the cast and crew thought that The Breakfast Cereal was terrible! (Do ppl think that the quality of script and performance of a particular episode has any bearing on its likelihood of survival as an off-air?! I suppose it does... weak episodes being more likely taped over in the case of a casual fan-made recording!) Any more news Ted?! I actually have a file on one of my old PCs, from the days when I was trading rare radio stuff by ftp, called 'Hancock - Trial of Father Christmas'. Unfortunteley, it's just an empty place holder file, meaning I had the file in question in a queue of ftp downloads but then never downloaded it (it should have been a little over 7 meg in size). Wish I could remember who I was trading it with... Stuart Don't mean to sound negative, but it was probably 'Bill and Father Christmas'. Although saying that... We'll probably never really know... |
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Post by Stuart Douglas on Jul 29, 2005 17:15:32 GMT
I actually have a file on one of my old PCs, from the days when I was trading rare radio stuff by ftp, called 'Hancock - Trial of Father Christmas'. Unfortunteley, it's just an empty place holder file, meaning I had the file in question in a queue of ftp downloads but then never downloaded it (it should have been a little over 7 meg in size). Wish I could remember who I was trading it with... Stuart Don't mean to sound negative, but it was probably 'Bill and Father Christmas'. Although saying that... We'll probably never really know... You're probably right Ted - although the file is a different size to that of B&FC, so maybe it's still out there. Stuart |
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Post by Ted Rogers on Jul 29, 2005 21:41:31 GMT
Don't mean to sound negative, but it was probably 'Bill and Father Christmas'. Although saying that... We'll probably never really know... You're probably right Ted - although the file is a different size to that of B&FC, so maybe it's still out there. Stuart Stuart, Size, could just be down to a (slightly) different bit rate, as sometimes different copies (made by different people) are on the system, at the same time.. As I'm sure you've noticed, more then a few of the Hancock files on P2P systems, have unusual titles, if compared to those of the Wilmut book (which are pretty much official now) for anyone, more then just a casual Hancockian... It seems, some people guess (or use there own) title, for some of the files..., as they seem fit… Still hoping it will turn up though, of course... |
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Post by Ted Rogers on Jul 31, 2005 19:29:14 GMT
So, am I right that the completely missing episodes of radio Hancock are these ones? Series 1 The Hancock Festival The Department Store Santa Christmas At Aldershot The Christmas Eve Party The Marriage Bureau Series 2 A Holiday In France (Secombe) The Crown Jewels (Secombe) The Racehorse (Secombe) A Visit To Swansea (Secombe leaves) Prime Minister Hancock The Three Sons The Matador Series 3 The New Neighbour The Winter Holiday The Red Planet A Visit To Russia The Trial Of Father Christmas Cinderella Hancock The New Years Resolutions The Breakfast Cereal The Newspaper Also, one of the sites lists 'The Blackboard Jungle' as held by THAS - is this a reference to the copy recently promoted on here, or is one version of superior quality to the other? Stuart @ Ted: Thanks.... Much as I figured unfortunately! @ Stuart: Your list tallies with mine Stuart with one exception. (A clip also survives from one episode that you list as you are probably aware - see below.) AFAIK these are indeed the lost shows at present except that you omitted to include The Diamond Ring (2nd of 1st series, 9-11-54) which was also missing last I heard. Anyone know any different...? It is worth bearing in mind that according to Roger Wilmut's excellent book Tony Hancock - Artiste (a book sorely overdue for an update btw!) the original tape recordings of the 1st radio series were only ever broadcast once in 1954/55. The possibility of off-air recordings of missing episodes having been made and surviving would therefore seem weak... As for series two - the Secombe episodes didn't join the Hancock-lead episodes from later in the series in the between season repeats of Autumn 1955. So the Secombes were only ever broadcast twice with most of the late series two tapes clocking up three broadcasts apiece. Again no off-airs have yet turned up of any of these episodes. Likewise most of the tapes from series three saw only three broadcasts. However, this period would seem to offer the best hope of future recoveries. The series has so far yielded three and a bit off-air recordings (an extract only survives from The New Year Resolutions; 12th of series, 4-1-56). As it appears most likely that these off-airs derive from the re-run of almost the entire series in the Spring of 1956 I would, if pushed, nominate The New Neighbour (4th of series, 9-11-55) and The Breakfast Cereal (15th of series, 22-1-56) as the most likely future recoveries! We can only hope... The script of The New Neighbour was good enough to be reworked by Galton & Simpson for HHH on TV. Whilst, according to Kenneth Williams, the cast and crew thought that The Breakfast Cereal was terrible! (Do ppl think that the quality of script and performance of a particular episode has any bearing on its likelihood of survival as an off-air?! I suppose it does... weak episodes being more likely taped over in the case of a casual fan-made recording!) Any more news Ted?! "(Do ppl think that the quality of script and performance of a particular episode has any bearing on its likelihood of survival as an off-air?! I suppose it does... weak episodes being more likely taped over in the case of a casual fan-made recording!)" Sorry, meant to reply to this thread, several days ago… Indeed, and without (hopefully) giving too much away, is exactly why 'The Blackboard Jungle' (and a couple of others, that were originally lost [but re-discovered many years ago, as very poor off-air copies] have/will resurface as much better copies) have turned up! I'll say no more... |
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Post by Andrew Millichip on Aug 4, 2005 12:33:05 GMT
Fascinating! Keep us informed Ted! Hints of rare recordings abound once you look into the subject dont they - although most leads would probably go no where. The Emule fileshare program for instance lists a HHH file entitled The Winter Holiday, complete with its correct tx. date (16-11-55); but this is unfortunately, almost certainly a recording of the soundtrack of the TV HHH The Alpine Holiday.  However, if it was ever confirmed, The Trial of Father Christmas could well become the earliest known off-air HHH. It is easy to see why the 3rd series holds the focus of any episode hunt. The show was at its peak of popularity on radio during this time (this was before ITV’s initial growth took hold of a large part of radio’s listener base) with around 6 million people tuning in each week. (Thanks in part to the growing popularity of William’s ‘Snide’ character introduced mid-way thru the previous series & the scheduling of the 2nd series repeats as a direct run in to the new shows in an effect to maximise their audience.) In addition, HHH producer Dennis Main Wilson had cause to label some of the show’s fans ‘hysterical’ during this period... So it is of no surprise really that, as the extract from The New Year Resolutions illustrates, at least one person had their reel-to-reel focussed on the series by January 1956 with a view to preserving the show - at least in the short-term. (As the show moved into its repeat run in the Spring Hancock’s profile was very much on the rise thanks to his concurrently screened TV series for ITV and again the preservation of HHHs via home taping seems more likely than ever before.) Even though tape machines for home recording were still expensive, like all such things they were becoming more widely available all the time. (Arrant speculation time! Maybe the New Year's taper had received their machine as a Christmas gift for 1955!  ) If one is looking for reasons why one episode survives and not another: All-in-all, since both DMW in his selection of episodes to be included in that Spring’s repeats, & the only other source of early HHH’s recordings the BBC’s Transcription Services, avoided any kind of ‘topical’ episode these would appear the least likely to survive. As we have said other considerations come into this too... It is interesting that both Trial & the Williams-panned The Newspaper were amongst six shows denied a repeat; for DMW seems to have been exerting some quality control in his selections (aside from topical considerations), as well as sidelining some shows that had been criticised in internal BBC reports for the “over-enthusiasm” of their studio audiences! The unlucky 3rd series shows were:- The Winter Holiday [topical]; The Red Planet [topical?, over-enthusiastic audience]; A Visit to Russia [DMW had intended this to be repeated but it was not included in the run in error]; The Trial of Father Christmas [topical]; The New Year Resolutions [topical, over-enthusiastic audience]; and The Newspaper [poor script] It was this list that lead me to my choices for “most likely to survive” above! Finally - as a tangent to all this - it is also worth bearing in mind that any of the BBCs sound archive copies may contain slight edits made early on for one reason or another. Wilmut pins all repeats from after the Spring of 1972 as coming from the sound archives copies. It would surely be worth a comparison with the recent commercial CD versions if anyone has a recording made before this date. |
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Post by Ted Rogers on Aug 27, 2005 20:25:53 GMT
Apparently, this was broadcast on BBC Radio 7 (which means very few people heard it – how ironic), but were you one of the few? Just wondering, what the sound quality was like? Did it sound like it had been cleaned up? I only ask, as the BBC would have received their copy, as found originally, with the various crackles and pops still intact...
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Post by Andy Lane on Aug 27, 2005 21:21:32 GMT
If you download the BBC radio player and click onto bbc7 page you can listen to it.Not a bad recording,quite a lot of background hiss though.
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Post by Ted Rogers on Aug 28, 2005 12:03:10 GMT
If you download the BBC radio player and click onto bbc7 page you can listen to it.Not a bad recording,quite a lot of background hiss though. Yes indeed, listened to it myself, in the early hours of this morning - as I visited the BBC7 Web site and found the link... Have to say though, that not much cleaning up seems to have taken place! I actually think, my copy is much better (I must have put a bit more effort in, as indeed, I know I did) and would like to think, they (the BBC) will have another go at it in the future, as surely it deserves a lot more attention then that... Still nice to hear though, of course... |
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Post by Dan on Aug 28, 2005 15:20:06 GMT
The day before BB7 broadcast Blackboard Jungle, the announcer trailed it (before they played ISIRTA) and said "...and we'll be hearing from the Tony Hancock Appreciation Society about how it was rediscovered". They must have forgotten to broadcast that bit as I couldn't find it. It wasn't before or after the Hancock broadcast anyway. Anyone know which file i have to click to hear this, or can anyone fill us in on the details.
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Post by Ted Rogers on Aug 28, 2005 15:25:13 GMT
The day before BB7 broadcast Blackboard Jungle, the announcer trailed it (before they played ISIRTA) and said "...and we'll be hearing from the Tony Hancock Appreciation Society about how it was rediscovered". They must have forgotten to broadcast that bit as I couldn't find it. It wasn't before or after the Hancock broadcast anyway. Anyone know which file i have to click to hear this, or can anyone fill us in on the details. Dan, go to the page below, on the BBC7 Web site, and you should see it - second one down: www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7/listenagain/tuesday/ |
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Post by Andrew Millichip on Aug 28, 2005 16:23:51 GMT
If you download the BBC radio player and click onto bbc7 page you can listen to it.Not a bad recording,quite a lot of background hiss though. Yes indeed, listened to it myself, in the early hours of this morning - as I visited the BBC7 Web site and found the link... Have to say though, that not much cleaning up seems to have taken place! I actually think, my copy is much better (I must have put a bit more effort in, as indeed, I know I did) and would like to think, they (the BBC) will have another go at it in the future, as surely it deserves a lot more attention then that... Still nice to hear though, of course... Agreed! Think i'll be keeping your version over the recording I made from the 7 transmission in fact. Tho the beeb's attempt wasn't that bad (compression doesn't help on the web version) i've no doubt you took more care Ted! It's the original version of The New Secretary next week - the BBC's first acknowledgement of having that in broadcastable form isn't it? Did this recording come from your source too? And are you still hoping more missing stuff will turn up from this man's collection Ted? (Btw, soz for my last post's somewhat lecturing tone - was just tryna get a fair bit of info across in as few words as poss!  ) |
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Post by Ted Rogers on Aug 28, 2005 17:16:11 GMT
Yes indeed, listened to it myself, in the early hours of this morning - as I visited the BBC7 Web site and found the link... Have to say though, that not much cleaning up seems to have taken place! I actually think, my copy is much better (I must have put a bit more effort in, as indeed, I know I did) and would like to think, they (the BBC) will have another go at it in the future, as surely it deserves a lot more attention then that... Still nice to hear though, of course... Agreed! Think i'll be keeping your version over the recording I made from the 7 transmission in fact. Tho the beeb's attempt wasn't that bad (compression doesn't help on the web version) i've no doubt you took more care Ted! It's the original version of The New Secretary next week - the BBC's first acknowledgement of having that in broadcastable form isn't it? Did this recording come from your source too? And are you still hoping more missing stuff will turn up from this man's collection Ted? (Btw, soz for my last post's somewhat lecturing tone - was just tryna get a fair bit of info across in as few words as poss! ) Indeed, Andrew. A better copy of the 'The New Secretary' (which was a fairly poor copy, in the THAS archive - The BBC only had, what the THAS had given them), was also discovered at the same time, as the copy of 'The Blackboard Jungle', although I haven't had a chance to clean this one up, yet... 'Anna And The King Of Siam' was also discovered, at the same time, but the copy the THAS had (and the BBC, once the THAS had given them a copy) had the beginning missing/incomplete, so this can now be fixed. I beleive the copy both the THAS/BBC had was good quality, apart from this... Although I do stand, to be corrected... (with Alan Simpson, Ray Galton and Max Harrispiano) Not sure if anything else, will turn up, as I beleive there was a fairly long list, to go through... |
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