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Post by Paul Watkins on Dec 18, 2008 12:40:23 GMT
For interest, where did you obtain information on recordings existing at the BBC on your web site that are listed as “No” on the BBC database, including The Sweet’s Wig-Wam Bam and an early appearance of Suzi Quatro’s Devil Gate Drive? uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e-2aW4WEHSQ – Again, not a criticism, do you have any updates on 1977 performances existing outside the BBC? I’ve found very little for that year. The only upload I’ve seen is a performance by Sailor-One Drink Too Many, in b/w! from 10/02/77. All the information i've gathered has been either from 'reliable' internet sources, Youtube, and the knowledgeable people on this very forum. As for 1977 i havent got around to 76/77 yet, but the only performance i've seen is the sailor one from all the 'missing' editions. The Move's Flowers promo is still up on youtube, www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8lA80atSgQhowever this is not directly from totp, the promo was made to accompany the single and was sold as a stand alone tape. This is how it survives. More Move California Man -2g's & the pop people: www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQEPYfXWWnIWords of aaron -ogwt www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoNkToIcogo |
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Post by Peter Elliott on Dec 18, 2008 13:08:22 GMT
Talking about The Move, for my money they were in the Top 5 groups in their era. Every single was different (though there are similarities between Brontosaurus and When Alice Comes Back To The Farm) and the albums featured many overlooked Roy Wood compositions which are wonderful. Roy was a very regular visitor to the UK Top 40 between 1967 and 1975 and all of a sudden... the hits dried up and his output in the last 20 years has been almost non-existent.
Thanks for the link to The Move Information site Paul. No idea why I hadn't seen it till you linked to it and it's excellent, especially the TV listings. When you see Roy Wood's solo TV performances, it makes heartbreaking reading for again, over the last 25 years all he ever does on TV is the Christmas single. He has said many times over the years he's been recording and preparing material but we see and hear nothing. Whilst it is great he still tours every so often, the lack of new music from this fine songwriter is depressing since I would LOVE to hear a new album by him full of new songs. We had all that hype over Guns and Roses taking forever to make their album, but I think Roy beats them hands down for taking even longer!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2008 13:57:34 GMT
You can see a videography of surviving move apps here (stills only). and also a list of all the TV they did and what survives (under 'media'). homepage.ntlworld.com/e.watkins/A very nicely laid out site with plenty of info. I hadn't heard of this one before. |
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Post by John Fleming on Dec 18, 2008 14:18:51 GMT
As for 1977 i havent got around to 76/77 yet, but the only performance i've seen is the sailor one from all the 'missing' editions. The Sailor performance is nice to have as 10/02/77 is not in circulation, but the complete show exists in the BBC archives. This is one of a number of shows rumoured not to exist because of errors in the TOTP2 database, the others being 09/09/82 and 09/08/84, both of which are well circulated. The database also claimed 09/09/76 was missing; everyone knows otherwise because it was on UK Gold. |
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 18, 2008 18:09:57 GMT
For interest, where did you obtain information on recordings existing at the BBC on your web site that are listed as “No” on the BBC database, including The Sweet’s Wig-Wam Bam and an early appearance of Suzi Quatro’s Devil Gate Drive? uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e-2aW4WEHSQ – Again, not a criticism, do you have any updates on 1977 performances existing outside the BBC? I’ve found very little for that year. The only upload I’ve seen is a performance by Sailor-One Drink Too Many, in b/w! from 10/02/77. All the information i've gathered has been either from 'reliable' internet sources, Youtube, and the knowledgeable people on this very forum. As for 1977 i havent got around to 76/77 yet, but the only performance i've seen is the sailor one from all the 'missing' editions. The Move's Flowers promo is still up on youtube, www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8lA80atSgQhowever this is not directly from totp, the promo was made to accompany the single and was sold as a stand alone tape. This is how it survives. More Move California Man -2g's & the pop people: www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQEPYfXWWnIWords of aaron -ogwt www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoNkToIcogoYour web site is most invaluable. As far as I know, all or most of the information I've introduced into my threads are also reliable, but like the rest of us, I can't guarantee everything without confirmations. This is why Youtube is most invaluable. While again, there's no guarantee that everything I and others upload is from Top of the Pops, a large proportion is, and feedback on any corrections is always welcome, as I always aim for optimum accuracy, but rely upon the information I'm given or read, or discover on Youtube. Likewise to the forum members, who've come up trumps with answers to up to several of my questions and other members' questions. I somehow didn't keep the link of The Move's Flowers in the Rain, so the original link I'd once located will have been uploaded by a different owner, as he/she specifically stated that it was from "TOTP 28 September 1967", but it's good to know that someone else has uploaded this link, which I've noted for future reference. This is definitely the same colour promo that I saw several months ago before the other link was removed, and further represents one of the most innovative groups for music. From your information, this promo isn't directly from Top of the Pops, so the source of the other uploader mistook it as a Top of the Pops broadcast. This is the thing, while well meant, when the wrong programmes are listed, it can unintentionally confuse matters, but you, like the others have helped clear up any misconceptions and mistakes on information I and the rest of us have put up.  In line with the others, I also like your Music updates. I, also hadn't seen these before, which nicely compliment your Top of the Pops updates. Digressing to The Move... It's excellent to see this promo film of Flowers in the Rain again, and for the first time to see an alternative performance of California Man from "2Gs and the Pop People" and a song I'd never seen or heard of before - The Words of Aaron from "OWTG". Although it's good to find new discoveries of Top of the Pops recordings, it's also good to see that recordings exist out there on other shows, which fill in the gaps (or compliment, as appropriate) the Top of the Pops performances where they no longer exist or performances were only made on other shows. There are so many singers and groups I could name, but The Move and ELO are certainly two of the most innovative comprising both pop, rock and classical music in their songs. uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5hpNEpb1OWg&feature=related - To compliment your findings, here's another Move song. I'd also never heard this one before today. Sadly, the TOTP performance is wiped and presumed nowhere outside the BBC, but this particular performance is from a German show, very likely the same one which features Sonja Kristina and Curved Air performing Back Street Luv: uk.youtube.com/watch?v=03qjZ7gDL7g - This appears to be the only recording in existence of this song (other than their 2008 Festival performance). As far as I know, nothing exists outside the BBC of Curved Air on TOTP. |
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 18, 2008 18:11:13 GMT
You can see a videography of surviving move apps here (stills only). and also a list of all the TV they did and what survives (under 'media'). homepage.ntlworld.com/e.watkins/A very nicely laid out site with plenty of info. I hadn't heard of this one before. This web site works well with Paul's TOTP updates. I agree about the layout and information updates. |
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 18, 2008 18:11:56 GMT
As for 1977 i havent got around to 76/77 yet, but the only performance i've seen is the sailor one from all the 'missing' editions. The Sailor performance is nice to have as 10/02/77 is not in circulation, but the complete show exists in the BBC archives. This is one of a number of shows rumoured not to exist because of errors in the TOTP2 database, the others being 09/09/82 and 09/08/84, both of which are well circulated. The database also claimed 09/09/76 was missing; everyone knows otherwise because it was on UK Gold. It's good to know that there's more editions of and inserts from Top of the Pops in the BBC archives than I originally thought. Thanks for updating me on the archive status of "missing" editions that exist. This is very useful and further represents the TOTP archive. |
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Post by Mark Leech on Dec 18, 2008 18:55:28 GMT
TOTP2 almost certainly use the old TOTP2 database for researching the clips they show, as nothing from 10-2-77, 9-9-82 or 9-8-84 has ever been shown on it!!
At one stage 25-12-92 was also missing from the database!!
Regards
Mark
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Post by Peter Elliott on Dec 18, 2008 20:06:16 GMT
Yes, the clip of The Move performing a live rendition of "When Alice Comes Back To The Farm" (their only flop single here in the UK) comes from German TV's "Beat Club" as does the Curved Air clip. I've never seen the Curved Air clip in better quality either... always an nth generation dub. But it should now be in perfect quality on the new Beat Club DVD boxsets. Curved Air appeared twice on Beat Club in 1971... there's one clip called "Propositions" that is absolutely amazing with Sonja in stunning form with some blood curdling screaming! They were a great band... shame the BBC appear to have nothing of them but again, this is where the German TV archives come to the rescue and better still, they're completely live so give a great idea how they actually sounded onstage.
The Move's OGWT track "The Words Of Aaron" is taken from their final album "Message From The Country" which was released in 1971. It's actually my fave Move album too... a truly eccentric collection and whats remarkable is they recorded it simultaneously alongside the first ELO album. Roy Wood and Jeff Lynne decided to scrap The Move in 1970. Their manager Don Arden was negotiating a good deal with EMI but EMI didn't want ELO and they insisted they would give ELO a chance only if Lynne and Wood continued giving them releases by The Move. The idea was, The Move royalties would help finance ELO and also guarantee EMI some income since nobody knew how ELO would fare... it's easy to forget how unusual ELO were at that time, so EMI were probably right to have misgivings. As a result The Move continued into 1972 solely as a recording unit and performing on TV. Lynne and Wood's hearts and energies were in ELO, yet they managed to bring The Move to a great end at the same time.
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 18, 2008 20:10:44 GMT
TOTP2 almost certainly use the old TOTP2 database for researching the clips they show, as nothing from 10-2-77, 9-9-82 or 9-8-84 has ever been shown on it!! At one stage 25-12-92 was also missing from the database!! Regards Mark That's strange, there's no sign of 25-12-92 on my Database. I must have uploaded it a few weeks or months before the BBC added it. Who appeared on that edition?, and Although you've confirmed Bobby Bloom/Pan's People-Montego Bay exists on 17/09/70, does this exist at or outside the BBC? It's a shame that TOTP 2 doesn't include up to several of the other recordings that exist in the archives from all the decades including the editions you quoted. Although there are many losses, there's still quite a large scope of archive material, especially from April 1976 onwards, which always get overlooked. While some may be difficult to get music clearance, I'm sure there's a lot that could be get clearance very easily. As far as I can tell, as I've seen many but not all editions of TOTP 2, these are several that have never been broadcast on the show: Chicago-I'm a Man (22/01/70) Smokey Robinson and the Miracles-The Tears of a Clown (06/08/70) Chicago-25 or 6 to 4 (13/08/70) The Rattles-The Witch (13/08/70): I think only the 15/10/70 performance has ever been shown on TOTP 2 Freda Payne-Band of Gold (17/09/70) The Mixtures-The Pushbike Song (14/01/71): Uncertain if this is to a chart countdown or the crowd or Pan's People dancing to it The Showstoppers-Ain't Nothing But a Houseparty (25/02/71) Blue Mink-Banner Man (10/06/71) Greyhound-Black and White (22/07/71) Cat Stevens-Moon Shadow (07/10/71) CCS/Pan's People-Tap Turns on the Water (25/12/71): I've only ever seen the September appearance of the dance group but dancing to a record of the song Jo Jo Gunne-Run Run Run (27/04/72) Diana Ross-Doobedood'ndoobe Doobedood'ndoobe (25/05/72) Elvis Presley-Burning Love (05/10/72) Ringo Starr/Pan's People-Photograph (01/11/73): Also on the TOTP 2 Video Files, so will exist The Osmonds-Let Me In (15/11/73) The Tremeloes-Silence is Golden (27/12/73) Suzi Quatro-The Wild One (28/11/74) Mud-The Secrets That You Keep (27/02/75): This exists, according to the TOTP 2 Video Files |
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 18, 2008 20:19:01 GMT
Yes, the clip of The Move performing a live rendition of "When Alice Comes Back To The Farm" (their only flop single here in the UK) comes from German TV's "Beat Club" as does the Curved Air clip. I've never seen the Curved Air clip in better quality either... always an nth generation dub. But it should now be in perfect quality on the new Beat Club DVD boxsets. Curved Air appeared twice on Beat Club in 1971... there's one clip called "Propositions" that is absolutely amazing with Sonja in stunning form with some blood curdling screaming! They were a great band... shame the BBC appear to have nothing of them but again, this is where the German TV archives come to the rescue and better still, they're completely live so give a great idea how they actually sounded onstage. The Move's OGWT track "The Words Of Aaron" is taken from their final album "Message From The Country" which was released in 1971. It's actually my fave Move album too... a truly eccentric collection and whats remarkable is they recorded it simultaneously alongside the first ELO album. Roy Wood and Jeff Lynne decided to scrap The Move in 1970. Their manager Don Arden was negotiating a good deal with EMI but EMI didn't want ELO and they insisted they would give ELO a chance only if Lynne and Wood continued giving them releases by The Move. The idea was, The Move royalties would help finance ELO and also guarantee EMI some income since nobody knew how ELO would fare... it's easy to forget how unusual ELO were at that time, so EMI were probably right to have misgivings. As a result The Move continued into 1972 solely as a recording unit and performing on TV. Lynne and Wood's hearts and energies were in ELO, yet they managed to bring The Move to a great end at the same time. Ah, so I assumed correctly that both performances were from the same show but didn't know it was Beat Club! I think this show started in black and white if I'm thinking of the right show. I find The Move and the ELO two of the most innovative groups. Jeff Lynne rejoined ELO in 2001, but both he and Roy made brilliant music in both groups. uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hkw6KWQ6Myw - As to Curved Air, it's a shame the BBC have nothing of them, not even on The Old Grey Whistle Test, assuming they appeared on there, as I don't know the full-line up of performers, existing or wiped from OWTG, but here's Propositions, which I'd not heard before tonight. Are the Beat Club DVD boxsets purchasable from Germany only, or anywhere including the UK? I might buy these, depending on choice and costs, but an excellent idea that the UK should follow with other shows. |
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Post by Mark Leech on Dec 18, 2008 20:26:47 GMT
David,
The Showstoppers-Ain't Nothing But a Houseparty (25/02/71)
(this was shown on TOTP2 on 23-12-2001)
The Tremeloes-Silence is Golden (27/12/73)
(this was shown on TOTP2 31-10-98)
Regards
Mark
P.S. Looks like I wasn't the only one to painstakingly copy the old TOTP database over when it was active! Here is the 25-12-92 info for you:
25-12-92: Presented by: Mark Franklin & Tony Dortie
WET WET WET – Goodnight Girl
RIGHT SAID FRED feat. JOCELYN BROWN – Don’t Talk Just Kiss (video)
DIANA ROSS – When You Tell Me That You Love Me (video)
THE PRODIGY – Everybody In The Place (video)
THE K.L.F. feat. TAMMY WYNETTE – Justified And Ancient (video)
KYLIE MINOGUE – Give Me Just A Little More Time (video)
QUEEN – Bohemian Rhapsody (video)
MICHAEL JACKSON – Remember The Time (video)
THE TEMPTATIONS – My Girl (video)
2 UNLIMITED – Twilight Zone (video)
SHAKESPEAR’S SISTER – Stay (video)
SHANICE – I Love Your Smile (via satellite)
MR. BIG – To Be With You (video)
CE CE PENISTON – Finally (video)
RIGHT SAID FRED – Deeply Dippy
SISTERS OF MERCY – Temple Of Love (video)
VANESSA WILLIAMS – Save The Best For Last (video)
DEF LEPPARD – Let’s Get Rocked (video)
SL2 – On A Ragga Tip (video)
IRON MAIDEN – Be Quick Or Be Dead (video)
CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT – Hang On In There Baby (video)
SHUT UP & DANCE feat. PETER BOUNCER – Raving I’m Raving (clip of TOTP 28-5-92)
GUNS N’ ROSES – Knockin’ On Heaven’s Door (video)
KWS – Please Don’t Go
RICHARD MARX – Hazard (video)
UGLY KID JOE – Everything About You (video)
NICK BERRY – Heartbeat (video)
KRIS KROSS – Jump (video)
ERASURE – Take A Chance On Me (video)
JIMMY NAIL – Ain’t No Doubt
MADONNA – This Used To Be My Playground (video)
SMART E’S – Sesame’s Treat (video)
MARIAH CAREY – I’ll Be There (clip of TOTP 25-6-92)
BILLY RAY CYRUS – Achy Breaky Heart (video)
LUTHER VANDROSS & JANET JACKSON – The Best Things In Life Are Free (video)
FREDDIE MERCURY & MONTSERRAT CABALLE – Barcelona (video)
SNAP – Rhythm Is A Dancer (video)
UNDERCOVER – Baker Street
DR. ALBAN – It’s My Life (video)
THE SHAMEN – Ebeneezer Goode (video)
TASMIN ARCHER – Sleeping Satellite
MADONNA – Erotica (video)
BIZARRE INC. feat. ANGIE BROWN – I’m Gonna Get You (video)
BOYZ II MEN – End Of The Road (via satellite)
RAGE – Run To You (video)
ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT – People Everyday (video)
CHARLES & EDDIE – Would I Lie To You? (via satellite)
MICHAEL JACKSON – Heal The World (video)
WHITNEY HOUSTON – I Will Always Love You (video)
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 18, 2008 21:18:56 GMT
David, The Showstoppers-Ain't Nothing But a Houseparty (25/02/71) (this was shown on TOTP2 on 23-12-2001) The Tremeloes-Silence is Golden (27/12/73) (this was shown on TOTP2 31-10-98) Regards Mark P.S. Looks like I wasn't the only one to painstakingly copy the old TOTP database over when it was active! Here is the 25-12-92 info for you: Unless confirmed otherwise, I'll assume that Pan's People dancing to Bobby Bloom is just outside the BBC, as I'm not currently sure of the full degree of which recordings exist at the BBC that are listed as "No" and I'd rather list things "Outside" until I'm sure they're at the BBC. Meanwhile, many thanks for your updates Mark. It's unfortunate I didn't see all editions of TOTP 2, as I've missed out on The Showstoppers and The Tremeloes, but no matter. As to the Database, I initially copied it directly from each month per year from 1964 to 2006 into a Notepad, luckily a few months before it was removed, which I've since been transferring into a Database, as it's much easier to look up specific performances, say everything by Status Quo, or all their hits from a specific year than trawl through all the lisitngs or use the invaluable "Find" function for large multiple details. It also makes it easier to view all the dates of an individual performance. Your quite recent update on which editions were never broadcast has also come in very handy. The 1992 Christmas show had some very good songs. I'm not sure exactly when the BBC added it in to the Database, but this is very useful information. It looks like the BBC put the equivalent of the former two Christmas shows into one going by the large number of songs that featured on this edition. I recognize many of the songs but had never heard Temple of Love by Sisters of Mercy before, which is good to hear for the first time, and the wide range of singers and performances/promo videos provided a very wide spectrum of music selections. |
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Post by John Fleming on Dec 19, 2008 10:26:35 GMT
I can confirm that Mud-The Secrets That You Keep (27/02/75) exists because I have it, and it looks like it has come from the archives, beginning with a clapperboard. Pete Seaton has confirmed that the whole episode exists in the archives.
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Post by garyjordanbrum on Dec 19, 2008 13:28:19 GMT
I can confirm that Mud-The Secrets That You Keep (27/02/75) exists because I have it, and it looks like it has come from the archives, beginning with a clapperboard. Pete Seaton has confirmed that the whole episode exists in the archives. |
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