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Post by dubs on Dec 3, 2003 11:24:20 GMT
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Post by Harry on Dec 3, 2003 12:02:11 GMT
Yes, let's hope Steve Bryant reads this and acts!
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Post by H Hartley on Dec 5, 2003 10:23:45 GMT
This is great news, these shows have been lost for so long are of hystorical value. Egyptian Papyrus must have the best tape nose in this business as he has sniffed out stuff like this before.
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Post by 26inchtube on Dec 23, 2003 15:44:42 GMT
This is great news, these shows have been lost for so long are of hystorical value. Egyptian Papyrus must have the best tape nose in this business as he has sniffed out stuff like this before. So nice to be taken seriously for once. First time I have been here and I see I already have to report some dodgy character who has just been banned from the Mausoelum board for posting offensive remarks. He is at it again here as well. Check out BRUISER posting...guy is a real scream. Unfortunately its also totally slanderous and I am taking action against this moron. The Moderators have been informed as this clearly breaches the terms of posting here, no one is permitted to publish offensive material about anyone, and to post such complete and total crap as that guy has I wont stand for.
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Post by Gareth R on Dec 24, 2003 13:09:53 GMT
Unfortunately its also totally slanderous and I am taking action against this moron
But let's be honest, the only action you need to take is to shove up a few screengrabs of the programmes you've found! You are *not* going to get into any trouble at all, and you'll have achieved the sweetest revenge possible - proving your detractors to be completely wrong in a public forum.
I'm sure you can understand how, in the realms of archive TV discoveries, unless you're a trusted individual with a proven track record (e.g. Andy Henderson) people will only take you at your word for so long before they start demanding hard evidence.
You have to admit, given the number of hoaxes that have been perpetrated about the supposed discovery of missing TV (almost always programmes with a strong cult following), appearing on a forum using a handle instead of your real name and claiming to have found 24 episodes of one of the more feted missing programmes, apparently recorded domestically in 1973 at a time when most people who had a VCR couldn't afford more than a handful of tapes that they re-used over and over, and then refusing to offer any kind of proof whatsoever, will inevitably start to attract suspicion!
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Post by Jason on Dec 24, 2003 18:21:52 GMT
Unfortunately its also totally slanderous and I am taking action against this moronI'm sure you can understand how, in the realms of archive TV discoveries, unless you're a trusted individual with a proven track record (e.g. Andy Henderson) people will only take you at your word for so long before they start demanding hard evidence. You have to admit, given the number of hoaxes that have been perpetrated about the supposed discovery of missing TV (almost always programmes with a strong cult following), appearing on a forum using a handle instead of your real name and claiming to have found 24 episodes of one of the more feted missing programmes, apparently recorded domestically in 1973 at a time when most people who had a VCR couldn't afford more than a handful of tapes that they re-used over and over, and then refusing to offer any kind of proof whatsoever, will inevitably start to attract suspicion! See your point in a way, but not in this context. I guess there are lots of false leads for all types of shows. How many false DR WHO leads were given I wonder... But I am not one of these people that feels I need to prove anything to anyone, its as simple as that. Some people I am sure would jump at getting screenshots, movie clips, private screenings, etc arranged at lightning speed.....its just all for personal glory. To me this is all public *image* and really not what this should be all about. It is not necessary to prove, or disprove at this point. Time will reveal, forgive the pun, the validity of the discoveries. That is all I am going to post on that matter forthwith as I have other considerations such as those discussed on Mausoleum. And what on earth is the POINT in false claims? I personally dont see any point, no one is going to throw tons of cash at me (and I wouldnt take it anyway), so unless I try to get Carlton to pay me a huge sum of cash for non existent material and then jet off to Bermuda and recline on my yacht surrounded by ravishing babes sipping MArtini's....what is the point!! There might have been money available in the early days for DR Who material, but these days? That is not going to be happen, there is no money in finding classic material these days unless you sell to non official sources who want to distribute for their own profit. Carlton wont pay for return of material...full stop. They just insist it is their property and it should be returned in "due course". Now maybe a private collector might offer, after proof, a tidy sum of cash but that does not interest me, as then the material would be in the public domain and all over the place I reckon. And who would get the blame for that? Me of course.... Now I am sure people can pick this inside out and quote bits and peices back and contradict me, etc.and totally disagree with me on this..if that is what you want to do that is fine by me, but really there are more important things in life to be getting on with at the moment. Why rush? Why hurry? The material is secure and is going back to its owners. Full stop, end of story....
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Post by Andy Henderson on Dec 24, 2003 19:32:59 GMT
Perhaps the worst aspect of this is that you haven't mentioned your real name. You are Mr or Mrs 'X' at the moment. It would make this a bit more human! And so, we have the same problem if someone posts you an e-mail offering something that might be too good to be true. We have nothing tangible to relate to, except offer a few questions. As for not seeking publicity, well.....even in ignorance, posting on a site is bound to get a reaction (with this news). Sometimes people just want to share the excitement. And others might get their ego jolted. There is nothing wrong with credit where credit is due and it is exciting for the person who makes the discovery. Particularly if this is for the first time. I'm sorry if I often (always!?) sound cynical on the web, but there are so many horror stories that I can't even repeat here involving collectors and finders that would put you off the hobby for life!!!). Expectations are high these days and if people asked me, I'd certainly put a frame grab up (and that goes for any of the material I've found). If I had found that material, I'd also have contacted the appropriate company before posting on the web. And as for a lie, well.....I guess we are all aware that sheer Devilment knows no bounds - even at Christmas.
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Post by H Hartley on Dec 24, 2003 20:30:17 GMT
So nice to be taken seriously for once. First time I have been here and I see I already have to report some dodgy character who has just been banned from the Mausoelum board for posting offensive remarks. He is at it again here as well. Check out BRUISER posting...guy is a real scream. Unfortunately its also totally slanderous and I am taking action against this moron. The Moderators have been informed as this clearly breaches the terms of posting here, no one is permitted to publish offensive material about anyone, and to post such complete and total crap as that guy has I wont stand for. Mr Tube you have taken my quote out of context as you can see it was posted a while back. I was pleased for you at the time and if you had left it at that i would have still been pleased for you. However you have been persistant with your claims. You know! you dont have to put yourself through all this, if you have all these shows then you could quite easily have kept it to yourself and nobody would be the wiser. prove me wrong but arnt you teasing?
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Post by bruiser on Dec 27, 2003 11:51:22 GMT
The story of the tapes "discovery" is sadly deleted from the mausoleum club but it was so laughably far fetched that it needs to be repeated here.
According to this character, we are meant to believe that a middle class family blew some 700 pounds on recording a childrens series in its entirety...why not simply re-use the same tape? And then it was neglected and forgotten about amongst a pile of *17,000* tapes (count them, gentlemen) before being lost, found again and copied to another format, lost again and then located a few days ago.
And all this comes hot on the heels of continued posts by the said gentlemen on the subject of colour Timeslip quads and lost ATV material...what a timely co-incidence for these off air tapes to turn up now!
The high point in this comedic story was undoubtedly the reference to several N1500 tapes being found "inside a mouldy rolled up curtain inside a suitcase". What loving care they took of their multi-million pound collection!
A quick retrospective glance through this guys mausoleum club career will show that he changes his story every five minutes. The motivation for the hoax is the same age old one: the need for attention. For heaven's sake, don't give him any more.
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Post by zodiac on Dec 27, 2003 14:55:02 GMT
There will always be claims for finding lost material. And is 17,000 tapes unbelievable?? I believe he refers to mixed formats and tapes are less than £1 now so if you include all modern acquisitions over 30 years 17,000 tapes is not actually as many as it sounds. Stacked wall to wall they would not fill a small bedroom.
And if you look at the Mausoleum postings especially those concerned with tracking down the 2" quad tapes and actually doing all the research (the material posted is not generally known about, or some of it anyway), surely this is a pertinent move if you know you have low bandwidth colour copies knocking about which may or may not be of any use, depending on if the master tapes are located. There is zero point in having low bandwidth copies if the real thing can be tracked down. makes sense to me.
And what is this £700 to tape an entire series figure?
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Post by bruiser on Dec 28, 2003 13:14:16 GMT
And what is this £700 to tape an entire series figure? This fellow states that his family recorded the entire Timeslip series onto N1500 tape in 1973. That would have been an extraordinary indulgence, especially considering that by his own admission he was 11 years old at the time. But that is beside the point. For starters, he's a known bootlegger and so his credibility is suspect to begin with. Secondly, when confronted with this in public, he immediately shut down his site and changed his email and denied everything...as good as an admission of guilt as you could ask for. But most of all he refuses to cough up any evidence. After giving a detailed description of one of the colour tapes, it is suddenly "too risky" to risk playing it or Carlton would be on his back for posting images on the internet. In short, a lot of talk and not one scrap of evidence. He claims to have 22 colour Timeslip episodes. That is one hell of a claim. Come on, let's see the evidence. A colour still from each episode.
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Post by zodiac on Dec 28, 2003 17:16:54 GMT
Interesting points. But what has being a "known bootlegger" got to do with it in any case? There are 1000's of pirates/bootleggers all over the place which in actual fact, probably suggests a huge tape library DOES exist for such a person.
And look at what happens when a lost DR Who is located, or supposedly found, you dont get screen shots and clips up on the web for ages, months sometimes. it is not an instant process. And if an old tape or film needs expert attention its ludicrous to try and get screen shots. All the restoration guys will say the same thing, never try it at home!! It is so easy to shred an old tape with one careless action on those old machines, which are very very hard on tapes.
And what about the so called *official* surviving quad tape of Timeslip in colour held by Carlton TV...have you seen actual screen shots from that anywhere as I have not. Tons of apparently re-discovered material has never been available as screen shots or clips on the net....just hearsay.
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Post by Gareth R on Dec 28, 2003 17:39:14 GMT
And look at what happens when a lost DR Who is located, or supposedly found, you dont get screen shots and clips up on the web for agesBut what you DO get is testimony from trusted individuals, typically people from the RT, who can say "Yes, I've seen this material, it's real"... And if an old tape or film needs expert attention its ludicrous to try and get screen shots. All the restoration guys will say the same thing, never try it at home!!What is particularly ludicrous in this situation is that Egyptian Papyrus/Jason happily played the tapes at home on an N1500 machine that, by his own admission, is on its last legs - and he didn't even have so much as a VHS machine recording the results in case he was getting the only playback the tapes would ever yield! I'm sure everyone hopes that EP/Jason is telling the truth about this, but a great many things about his story simply don't add up. Finding one or two episodes of Timeslip (or maybe just a few minutes of an episode that had been partially recorded over with something else) would have been very believable, but 22 episodes in full? Recorded at a time when videotape was so expensive, even those people who could afford VCRs could generally only stretch to a handful of tapes, which they reused constantly? Videotape as an ultra-cheap commodity is very much a mid-to-late 80s phenomenon. I remember when we got our first VCR - a Ferguson piano-key VHS rented from DER in 1980 - a 3-hour tape cost £20, which wasn't a trivial amount of money back then. Wind back to 1973 and IIRC, a one-hour tape for an N1500 cost about £30 - and £30 was even less trivial in 1973 than £20 was in 1980. So for 22 episodes of Timeslip, that's 12 tapes, which was £360... that would have brought you a reasonably new second-hand car at the time! Or about three-quarters of another N1500, of course. Sure, it's not *impossible* that what EP/Jason says is the truth, but it's definitely stretching the bounds of credibility. If it's true, he must have been lucky enough to come from a very rich family!
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Post by my ten ps worth on Dec 28, 2003 17:59:06 GMT
The average postie was on about £35 a week in 1973.
The other thing to consider about those years (and why we have lost stuff today) is that there was no taping mindset. ie television was a conveyor belt bringing along stuff that was new and exciting, people were not really interested in repeats at all! once they had seen something that was it! they moved onto the next thing. For example when Ace of Wands was replaced by the Tomorrow People, however good it had been, most people never gave it a second thought.
So the thought of a family saying we are going record this whole series because we would like to see it again and again is really not on in 1973,
if he had said these were company off airs then this could be believable as BBC and ITV bought in large amounts of n1500s as the replacement to 16mm tr.
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Post by Harry on Dec 28, 2003 20:56:27 GMT
That's a lot of theorising there. When Ace Of Wands ended, I always wanted it back. I always found Tomorrow People a very poor substitute. Same with a lot of other programmes too, so the idea that when something was ended it was never given another thought is rubbish.
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