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Post by Gareth R on Dec 28, 2003 23:38:57 GMT
the idea that when something was ended it was never given another thought is rubbish
Oh come on, do we really need to be *that* anal here?
Obviously, the poster wasn't saying that *nobody ever* gave old programmes another thought - the comment was about the broad majority of viewers, who were far more interested in new programmes than in repeats of old ones. It's easy to forget that people complained just as bitterly about the number of repeats on TV in 1973 as in 2003!
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Post by zodiac on Dec 29, 2003 13:25:22 GMT
What is particularly ludicrous in this situation is that Egyptian Papyrus/Jason happily played the tapes at home on an N1500 machine that, by his own admission, is on its last legs - and he didn't even have so much as a VHS machine recording the results in case he was getting the only playback the tapes would ever yield!
Coorect me if I am wrong here but on my cached pages off the various messages on the Mausoleum and this forum which were removed it does not say he played an N1500 but watched a copy of episode 9 transferred onto V2000 tape. I dont believe it refers anywhere to playing the actual N1500 tapes which is suggested in various replies. And yes the price of tapes was astronomical in 1973/4, this is true, but if you check back at other postings which are still in my internet cache it is mentioned machines and tapes could be obtained via the LEA if you had a contact who was a headmaster or something....presumably the LEA's received huge discounts as they would be buying N1500 tapes in bulk for their recently acquired VCR's for schools use. Either that is nick them from the school office or LEA storage cupboard!!! And as to being from a rich family, well why not? My immediate family have invested huge amounts of money in 16mm film equipment over the years....if its an obsession you will spend all your money on itm its as simple as that. So if you got the video craze in 1973 and had the readies, would you not have gone mad and bought tons of tapes and started a library?
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Post by Laurence Piper on Dec 29, 2003 14:25:25 GMT
Also, there were a lot more non-broadcast video formats around in the late '60s / early '70s than most people even know of. The Philips machines are just what most people are familiar with. I know someone who collects different types of machines and from what he has alone, there are a lot!
Just reiterating really that having large numbers of tapes in 1973 isn't impossible (not the norm but entirely feasible). It will be interesting to see what the outcome of this Timeslip tape situation finally is. Until then i'll keep an open mind...
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Post by William Martin on Dec 29, 2003 16:44:37 GMT
just to agree with the postings above a person able to buy a very expensive machine would be not find expensive tapes much of an problem, I know we are talking about LEA discounts but the same rule applies, and It is always best to keep an open mind, after all the worse that could happen is that there are no tapes, then we would be no worse off than we are now, I am prepared to give EP the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by zodiac on Dec 29, 2003 18:07:58 GMT
just to agree with the postings above a person able to buy a very expensive machine would be not find expensive tapes much of an problem Totally agree. If you have the cash to splash out on an N1500 (and this cost little compared to consumer format open reel video machines like the SONY), you are not just going to buy 3 tapes and re-use them for time-shift recording. These machines were serious investment, and if you had fave shows you would record and keep and not wipe. Well thats what I would do. If video is your passion, cost is irrelevant, the money can always be found. I have a classic car and spent God knows how much money on it, but its a passion and I can survive on pot noodles if necessary for a year! I think it all comes down to priorities. I cant see why anyone should think a large tape library would be unlikely in 73/4...you simply organize your finances properly, sell the mother-in-law and mortgage the cat!
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Post by William Martin on Dec 29, 2003 18:24:28 GMT
wasn't there that big bullion robbery in 1972? coincidence, I think not I think it has to be pointed out that despite the 1500% tax in the early 1970s there were still rich people, rolls royces, big houses, hand made shoes, gold watches that can't keep time etc
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Post by Gareth R on Dec 30, 2003 0:46:14 GMT
If you have the cash to splash out on an N1500 (and this cost little compared to consumer format open reel video machines like the SONY)
Do you have any conception of just how much an N1500 was in 1973? It was so expensive that even with LEA help, only a tiny minority of schools could afford VCRs at first - the bulk of schools didn't receive machines until the late 70s. Domestic owners were even thinner on the ground.
you are not just going to buy 3 tapes and re-use them for time-shift recording
That is *precisely* what happened, time and again - just ask anyone who's been collecting these things for a while. Due to the amount of reuse that went on, it's rare that a 1500 tape contains material from earlier than about 1977.
I myself have found endless 1500 tapes looking excitingly old and labelled up with things like "Xmas recordings 25/12/74", only to discover that the 1974 stuff is long gone and they contain material from 1982 - the most depressing was a boxful of ex-BBC viewing tapes from the late 70s which had been recorded over with programming from the Discovery Channel in 1994.
The whole selling point of home video recording back then was being able to time-shift; there were no pre-recorded movies to rent, after all.
If video is your passion, cost is irrelevant, the money can always be found
We're talking about 1973 here, and yet you seem to be under the impression that 2003 attitudes to money applied back then...
I cant see why anyone should think a large tape library would be unlikely in 73/4
Try researching the historical and socioeconomic contexts, and you'll understand why...
But hey, if it's all for real, then kudos to EP/Jason - his family will have done something utterly unprecedented!
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Post by bruiser on Dec 30, 2003 0:55:03 GMT
it does not say he played an N1500 but watched a copy of episode 9 transferred onto V2000 tape. Yes, but he refuses to post even one still from that (I admit he possibly may have come by a single episode on V2000). He says that Carlton would have a fit if he did, which is completely ridiculous. Even more incomprehensible is his claim that Carlton would not be interested in the N1500 tapes because it would be "too expensive" to restore them! This seems like a convenient excuse for not having ever to provide a single shred of proof. If it were someone with a proven track record it would be more believable. But there is nothing to stop someone from coming on here now and saying they have all of missing Dr Who, but can't prove it because they don't have a machine or projector to play it on. If you can't offer some outside corroboration or evidence, then you can't expect to be taken seriously.
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Post by zodiac on Dec 30, 2003 13:02:31 GMT
If you have the cash to splash out on an N1500 (and this cost little compared to consumer format open reel video machines like the SONY)Do you have any conception of just how much an N1500 was in 1973? It was so expensive that even with LEA help, only a tiny minority of schools could afford VCRs at first - the bulk of schools didn't receive machines until the late 70s. Domestic owners were even thinner on the ground. Yes I do know how much they were, thanks very much. And there were still FAR cheaper than an open reel home video format. My school had one in 1974 and that was not a big post school but a back street London comp!!! And in 1973 terms, there was far more money around than there is today. The standard of living was much higher, or at least my mum keeps telling me that. AND there was NO VAT at this time either!!
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Post by H Hartley on Dec 30, 2003 13:19:24 GMT
So Zodiac we could argue about this all day. So if you were in EP's shoes what do think his next move should be?
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Post by zodiac on Dec 30, 2003 15:33:54 GMT
So Zodiac we could argue about this all day. So if you were in EP's shoes what do think his next move should be? Difficult question as I dont know all the facts. I can only suppose therefore: if its 100% true about the tapes I would not faff about wasting time posting pictures on web sites but get the tapes examined by a pro and digitized as quickly as possible, if indeed that is possible. If less than 100% true then it depends on what % is actually true....it he has a few episodes and not 22 or whatever it was stated, then fair enough...the same approach, get them copied ASAP but by a pro. A slight exaggeration is forgiveable, but a career in politics is shown to be a good career move for him. If zero % true, then I may consider selling the mother-in-law, re-mortgage the cat and stop sniffing the old video tapes which give off self-delusion vapours. ....oh and possibly take up train spotting to regain suitable amounts of sanity. Then, and only at that point, return to the Forum and claim a miraculous cure from *archive TV delusion syndrome*, and get back to normal. I personally bet a fiver that there is at least 1 episode, thats me getting the ball rolling. I know TV anoraks (no names mentioned) do tend to get carried away and exaggerate slightly....sometimes more than slightly. Its the gas given off by old video tapes....intoxicating.
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Post by Gareth R on Dec 31, 2003 15:02:40 GMT
And there were still FAR cheaper than an open reel home video format
So? All you're saying there is that to own an open-reel system you had to be rich, and to own a 1500 you merely had to be extremely wealthy!
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Post by Andy Henderson on Dec 31, 2003 15:31:01 GMT
"And in 1973 terms, there was far more money around than there is today. The standard of living was much higher, or at least my mum keeps telling me that. AND there was NO VAT at this time either!!"
Eh? I can remember power cuts in the morning, going to school with no school meals. In general terms I'd say that luxury items are much cheaper (clothes and electrical in particular). Food is proportionately more expensive. Crisps cost 2 new pence in 1973. VAT was introduced in 1973 and those lovely colour videotapes of timeslip would have been taxed too.
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Post by Bobothebear on Jan 1, 2004 22:45:16 GMT
With regard to the owning of many tapes in 1974 I feel it could be very plausible. Due to my massive video collection I recall my dad telling me about my godfathers collection. He had 2 N1500 machines and V2000's,betamax's and some others.By something like 1978(last time we saw him when I was about 5) he had a dedicated VCR room in his house. He had about 10+ machines and (shamelessy!!)then he was a proper hardcore bootlegger.Constantly copying and selling tapes. He did have an enourmous collection of tapes which must have cost alot and he was not in anyway wealthy.Funnily enough in the late 80's he was declared bankrupt and his entire collection was sold.
I think the best way to prove us doubters wrong is so simple.If a screenshot is not possible as previously stated. I understand the 17,000 tape collection is spread around a number of family members houses but why not just take a picture of some of the tapes. I would be happy to see piles\boxes of 7,000 odd tapes and then so many of us could believe that one hell of a video collection does exist.
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Post by Andy Henderson on Jan 1, 2004 23:19:45 GMT
I asked about a pic of the tapes, but no can do.
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