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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2023 19:07:36 GMT
Please explain as to why it's unlikely that the prints were exported. No record of broadcasts and no paperwork. Apart from that…… Maybe the paperwork is lost or destroyed. Maybe it's in someone's old suitcase. Either way, we won't know until the paperwork or the episodes themselves show up. |
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Post by John Wall on Sept 12, 2023 22:02:21 GMT
No record of broadcasts and no paperwork. Apart from that…… Maybe the paperwork is lost or destroyed. Maybe it's in someone's old suitcase. Either way, we won't know until the paperwork or the episodes themselves show up. Perhaps the prints were shipped to my attic where they’re waiting for me to find them….. I tend to not give much, if any, credence to things that are completely unevidenced. |
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Post by Tim Burrows on Sept 13, 2023 10:55:19 GMT
Sorry to bump this thread, but could it have been possible that the prints were exported to another country, like Nigeria, but weren't documented for some reason? Well I want the Singapore prints to have gone to a mystery Africa location as much as anyone, but consider The Tenth Planet. We know it showed in Australia and we know it showed in New Zealand who then sent on their copy to Singapore. In 1973 there was at least one print of episode 4 at the BBC. In 1975 Australia returned a set of prints. In 1977 episodes 1-3 still existed at the BBC. And in the 1980's a second copy of episode 2 was found with a private collector, having been salvaged from the BBC in the 1970's. Australia may have had multiple copies, but there's no evidence available for that so I think we can suppose that as far as the ABC were concerned, they'd sent back their set. That's two sets of prints known about, and both accounted for. It doesn't leave a lot of room for the Singapore copy to be anywhere else but in the UK. It would be interesting to know whether any of the four prints (1,2,2 and 3) that exist have spices in the FTB's as that would be suggestive of a Singapore copy. If they don't, then I'm stumped. |
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Post by John Wall on Sept 13, 2023 11:40:16 GMT
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Post by stephen macpherson on Sept 13, 2023 13:28:54 GMT
Sorry to bump this thread, but could it have been possible that the prints were exported to another country, like Nigeria, but weren't documented for some reason? Well I want the Singapore prints to have gone to a mystery Africa location as much as anyone, but consider The Tenth Planet. We know it showed in Australia and we know it showed in New Zealand who then sent on their copy to Singapore. In 1973 there was at least one print of episode 4 at the BBC. In 1975 Australia returned a set of prints. In 1977 episodes 1-3 still existed at the BBC. And in the 1980's a second copy of episode 2 was found with a private collector, having been salvaged from the BBC in the 1970's. Australia may have had multiple copies, but there's no evidence available for that so I think we can suppose that as far as the ABC were concerned, they'd sent back their set. That's two sets of prints known about, and both accounted for. It doesn't leave a lot of room for the Singapore copy to be anywhere else but in the UK. It would be interesting to know whether any of the four prints (1,2,2 and 3) that exist have spices in the FTB's as that would be suggestive of a Singapore copy. If they don't, then I'm stumped. |
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Post by stephen macpherson on Sept 13, 2023 13:37:15 GMT
Thanks Tim for summarising.
By the timeline of events and making associations (the set of eps 1-3 originate from NZ/Singapore and the lone ep 2 from Australia), would it be fair to say that IF (note in capitals) this is accurate, the best outside chance of recovery is if ep 4 of the Australian set managed to survive the junking (like ep 2) of the Australian '75 Returns in the mid-to late 70s. As stated at the start of this message, this would be a big IF and outside chance.
Just a theory and no intention to start rumours etc.
Thanks
Stephen
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2023 14:19:43 GMT
Sorry to bump this thread, but could it have been possible that the prints were exported to another country, like Nigeria, but weren't documented for some reason? Well I want the Singapore prints to have gone to a mystery Africa location as much as anyone, but consider The Tenth Planet. We know it showed in Australia and we know it showed in New Zealand who then sent on their copy to Singapore. In 1973 there was at least one print of episode 4 at the BBC. In 1975 Australia returned a set of prints. In 1977 episodes 1-3 still existed at the BBC. And in the 1980's a second copy of episode 2 was found with a private collector, having been salvaged from the BBC in the 1970's. Australia may have had multiple copies, but there's no evidence available for that so I think we can suppose that as far as the ABC were concerned, they'd sent back their set. That's two sets of prints known about, and both accounted for. It doesn't leave a lot of room for the Singapore copy to be anywhere else but in the UK. It would be interesting to know whether any of the four prints (1,2,2 and 3) that exist have spices in the FTB's as that would be suggestive of a Singapore copy. If they don't, then I'm stumped. How come episodes 1,2, and 3 managed to survive the junkings but not ep 4? Also, did this lead to the Blue Peter rumor? |
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Post by John Wall on Sept 13, 2023 14:27:36 GMT
Well I want the Singapore prints to have gone to a mystery Africa location as much as anyone, but consider The Tenth Planet. We know it showed in Australia and we know it showed in New Zealand who then sent on their copy to Singapore. In 1973 there was at least one print of episode 4 at the BBC. In 1975 Australia returned a set of prints. In 1977 episodes 1-3 still existed at the BBC. And in the 1980's a second copy of episode 2 was found with a private collector, having been salvaged from the BBC in the 1970's. Australia may have had multiple copies, but there's no evidence available for that so I think we can suppose that as far as the ABC were concerned, they'd sent back their set. That's two sets of prints known about, and both accounted for. It doesn't leave a lot of room for the Singapore copy to be anywhere else but in the UK. It would be interesting to know whether any of the four prints (1,2,2 and 3) that exist have spices in the FTB's as that would be suggestive of a Singapore copy. If they don't, then I'm stumped. How come episodes 1,2, and 3 managed to survive the junkings but not ep 4? Also, did this lead to the Blue Peter rumor? It’s Rumsfeldian, a known unknown! |
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Post by Tim Burrows on Sept 13, 2023 15:45:14 GMT
Thanks Tim for summarising. By the timeline of events and making associations (the set of eps 1-3 originate from NZ/Singapore and the lone ep 2 from Australia), would it be fair to say that IF (note in capitals) this is accurate, the best outside chance of recovery is if ep 4 of the Australian set managed to survive the junking (like ep 2) of the Australian '75 Returns in the mid-to late 70s. As stated at the start of this message, this would be a big IF and outside chance. Just a theory and no intention to start rumours etc. Thanks Stephen Funnily enough a friend put this on its head for me last night: it's possible the putative Singapore set was junked first (and salvaged), then replaced with the Australia set which we have now. Unless someone's going to give an analysis of leaders on the films etc we can't know. In any case, I find it relatively hopeful that if one episode made it into the wild, then the other three could have. |
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Post by John Wall on Sept 13, 2023 21:41:32 GMT
Thanks Tim for summarising. By the timeline of events and making associations (the set of eps 1-3 originate from NZ/Singapore and the lone ep 2 from Australia), would it be fair to say that IF (note in capitals) this is accurate, the best outside chance of recovery is if ep 4 of the Australian set managed to survive the junking (like ep 2) of the Australian '75 Returns in the mid-to late 70s. As stated at the start of this message, this would be a big IF and outside chance. Just a theory and no intention to start rumours etc. Thanks Stephen Funnily enough a friend put this on its head for me last night: it's possible the putative Singapore set was junked first (and salvaged), then replaced with the Australia set which we have now. Unless someone's going to give an analysis of leaders on the films etc we can't know. In any case, I find it relatively hopeful that if one episode made it into the wild, then the other three could have. We’ve previously discussed how BP would splice the film inserts for a particular show together so that they could be played as required, and it also seems that at least some of these reels survive. If the one from the episode where the clip of TP4 was used survives I wonder what an examination of the TP4 print would reveal? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2023 21:46:21 GMT
Funnily enough a friend put this on its head for me last night: it's possible the putative Singapore set was junked first (and salvaged), then replaced with the Australia set which we have now. Unless someone's going to give an analysis of leaders on the films etc we can't know. In any case, I find it relatively hopeful that if one episode made it into the wild, then the other three could have. We’ve previously discussed how BP would splice the film inserts for a particular show together so that they could be played as required, and it also seems that at least some of these reels survive. If the one from the episode where the clip of TP4 was used survives I wonder what an examination of the TP4 print would reveal? Until we find the episode, we may never know. |
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Post by Tim Burrows on Sept 13, 2023 21:46:25 GMT
I’m not sure whether you’re talking about the putative Blue Peter telecine reel or the TP4 print.
If it’s the latter, NZ made two censor cuts to part 4, Australia none. I’d wager that the NZ cut print would also have splices during the FTBs.
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Post by John Wall on Sept 13, 2023 22:08:21 GMT
I’m not sure whether you’re talking about the putative Blue Peter telecine reel or the TP4 print. If it’s the latter, NZ made two censor cuts to part 4, Australia none. I’d wager that the NZ cut print would also have splices during the FTBs. I’m talking about the telecine reel. If it exists then the section of TP4 could be examined to see, for example. If it’s the same stock as the surviving episodes. If that’s the case then that could confirm the suggestion on Broadwcast that BP simply snipped out the bit they wanted and binned the rest. |
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Post by Tim Burrows on Sept 14, 2023 8:47:54 GMT
I’m not sure whether you’re talking about the putative Blue Peter telecine reel or the TP4 print. If it’s the latter, NZ made two censor cuts to part 4, Australia none. I’d wager that the NZ cut print would also have splices during the FTBs. I’m talking about the telecine reel. If it exists then the section of TP4 could be examined to see, for example. If it’s the same stock as the surviving episodes. If that’s the case then that could confirm the suggestion on Broadwcast that BP simply snipped out the bit they wanted and binned the rest. Gotcha |
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Post by John Wall on Sept 14, 2023 14:56:43 GMT
I’m talking about the telecine reel. If it exists then the section of TP4 could be examined to see, for example. If it’s the same stock as the surviving episodes. If that’s the case then that could confirm the suggestion on Broadwcast that BP simply snipped out the bit they wanted and binned the rest. Gotcha 👍 The next thing is to ascertain whether that telecine reel survives. |
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