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Post by sonnybh on Jul 10, 2023 20:39:34 GMT
On a slightly different but similar note I recall from many years back - probably late 1980s - it was reported that one of the few Blue Peters from the late 1960s which was missing was the edition which featured the winners of the Design A Monster/Beat the Daleks competition form 1967. There was a suggestion it had mysteriously vanished but it has clearly turned up since. It was rumoured the Krotons were based on the winning design, but none of the 3 winners resembled an Art Deco petrol pump! |
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Post by John Wall on Jul 10, 2023 21:11:39 GMT
If the films were held at (owned by?) the Film Library, would they still have Enterprises labels on them? Would they not have FL labels on them instead / as well? That’s a good question. The simplest way to ensure correct routing is to clearly label it with the owner and their address. |
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Post by richardmarson on Jul 10, 2023 22:13:26 GMT
The reason the Film Library chased it is that they were expecting to get it back. I think in all likelihood, as far as Blue Peter was concerned, they couldn't help as they had sent it back. It just hadn't gone back to where it had come from. In that case why didn’t they say where they’d sent it? It could then have been retrieved. After so long it’s unlikely that a definitive answer will be forthcoming but let’s consider another cock up scenario. BP were sent the print. It seems likely that the DW clip was edited into a reel with the other filmed pieces. Perhaps BP should, as has been suggested, have put the whole DW print on a telecine but someone wasn’t aware it was wanted back so they chopped it up and binned the unwanted sections. I’m unsure what happened to the reels made for each programme, they may well have been binned too. Because of Biddy Baxter a lot of BP survives so there would have been little justification for keeping such reels and with two programmes per week they would have soon mounted up. The print wasn’t returned so it was chased. BP looked and couldn’t find it, they may have ‘phoned to say they didn’t have it. Someone assumed that someone else had returned it and it had gone astray in the post. Whatever happened I think it’s unlikely to turn up 👎 In fact, almost all the film insert material for the surviving Blue Peter editions of the 60s and 70s was retained alongside the film recording or off air quad tape recording of the live shows. It's a very comprehensive archive from the autumn of 1965. The 1967 Doctor Who competition editions have always existed; that they had gone AWOL was another bit of fan fantasy |
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Post by John Wall on Jul 10, 2023 22:36:13 GMT
In that case why didn’t they say where they’d sent it? It could then have been retrieved. After so long it’s unlikely that a definitive answer will be forthcoming but let’s consider another cock up scenario. BP were sent the print. It seems likely that the DW clip was edited into a reel with the other filmed pieces. Perhaps BP should, as has been suggested, have put the whole DW print on a telecine but someone wasn’t aware it was wanted back so they chopped it up and binned the unwanted sections. I’m unsure what happened to the reels made for each programme, they may well have been binned too. Because of Biddy Baxter a lot of BP survives so there would have been little justification for keeping such reels and with two programmes per week they would have soon mounted up. The print wasn’t returned so it was chased. BP looked and couldn’t find it, they may have ‘phoned to say they didn’t have it. Someone assumed that someone else had returned it and it had gone astray in the post. Whatever happened I think it’s unlikely to turn up 👎 In fact, almost all the film insert material for the surviving Blue Peter editions of the 60s and 70s was retained alongside the film recording or off air quad tape recording of the live shows. It's a very comprehensive archive from the autumn of 1965. The 1967 Doctor Who competition editions have always existed; that they had gone AWOL was another bit of fan fantasy That’s fascinating to learn and either supports or torpedoes various theories! I wonder if they regularly shunted them off to the archive - or they had large offices! |
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Ace St.John
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Post by Ace St.John on Jul 11, 2023 1:08:54 GMT
So this is about the print so what happened to the negative? And were there a few DMP episodes in film library or just 1-2 . I am guessing Enterprises would have had copies of DMP at this point
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Post by John Wall on Jul 11, 2023 7:46:27 GMT
What has occurred to me is that, if it hasn’t already been done, these reels of spliced together film could be inspected to see if the origin of the DW clips could be ascertained.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jul 11, 2023 9:46:57 GMT
If the films were held at (owned by?) the Film Library, would they still have Enterprises labels on them? Would they not have FL labels on them instead / as well? Only DMP4 was held by the Film Library. The Tenth Planet 4 was from Enterprises. I can't see that there's any reason why the Film Library would have changed the labels. Everything they needed to know was already on the existing Enterprises one, so there would have been little point in duplicating it. |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jul 11, 2023 9:51:25 GMT
So this is about the print so what happened to the negative? And were there a few DMP episodes in film library or just 1-2 . I am guessing Enterprises would have had copies of DMP at this point The negative, if it still survived by 1971 (which it may well not have done if no sales were achieved), would have been in Enterprises' film storage at Villiers House. The Film Library had just that one episode of DMP and like the rest of the episodes they held, barring the pilot and the 35mm ones, they would have just ended up there accidentally. |
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Post by Leighton Haberfield on Jul 11, 2023 20:19:55 GMT
So what happed to DMP episode 3 that was featured on Blue Peter in 1971 when featuring the three daleks from Day?
Also didn't Francis Watson help himself to DMP 2 in 1972 when clearing out a basement?
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Post by billardery on Jul 12, 2023 0:06:34 GMT
So what happed to DMP episode 3 that was featured on Blue Peter in 1971 when featuring the three daleks from Day? Also didn't Francis Watson help himself to DMP 2 in 1972 when clearing out a basement? I believe he was clearing out a projection booth in a BBC studio building that was closing. The film had been kept around for the purpose of testing projectors. When he found it, they told him to throw it out and he kept it instead. |
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Post by Ralph Rose on Jul 12, 2023 2:37:21 GMT
So this is about the print so what happened to the negative? And were there a few DMP episodes in film library or just 1-2 . I am guessing Enterprises would have had copies of DMP at this point The negative, if it still survived by 1971 (which it may well not have done if no sales were achieved), would have been in Enterprises' film storage at Villiers House. The Film Library had just that one episode of DMP and like the rest of the episodes they held, barring the pilot and the 35mm ones, they would have just ended up there accidentally. And if DMP-4 still had Enterprises label on it, it might have wound back there at Enterprises. |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jul 12, 2023 9:07:12 GMT
The negative, if it still survived by 1971 (which it may well not have done if no sales were achieved), would have been in Enterprises' film storage at Villiers House. The Film Library had just that one episode of DMP and like the rest of the episodes they held, barring the pilot and the 35mm ones, they would have just ended up there accidentally. And if DMP-4 still had Enterprises label on it, it might have wound back there at Enterprises. Whuch is what I've been suggesting for the past four pages!  |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jul 12, 2023 10:24:50 GMT
So what happed to DMP episode 3 that was featured on Blue Peter in 1971 when featuring the three daleks from Day? It would have gone back to where they borrowed it from, in this case, BBC Enterprises. |
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Post by John Wall on Jul 12, 2023 10:31:57 GMT
So what happed to DMP episode 3 that was featured on Blue Peter in 1971 when featuring the three daleks from Day? It would have gone back to where they borrowed it from, in this case, BBC Enterprises. If the reel of filmed inserts survives - as it may well - it could be examined to see if the DW clip is there and, possibly, identify whether it’s the original. If there’s no DW then it’s clear that the DW print was kept intact. |
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Post by andyparting on Jul 12, 2023 16:04:37 GMT
It would have gone back to where they borrowed it from, in this case, BBC Enterprises. If the reel of filmed inserts survives - as it may well - it could be examined to see if the DW clip is there and, possibly, identify whether it’s the original. If there’s no DW then it’s clear that the DW print was kept intact. I'm at sea, I'm afraid. However, I'm willing to bet that DMP-4 and TP-4 are among PV's 2 eps and PM's 6. In fact I'll gamble all my prizes for what's behind Bully's special prize board. |
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