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Post by kurt devery on Feb 3, 2021 23:15:05 GMT
As much as I love Troughton I must admit the prospect of having some of those long whispered Hartnell tales bought back to life and available to watch when ever rather excites me...intruging to think that all this was once just a fanboy dream
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Post by tom rogers on Feb 4, 2021 0:14:21 GMT
Galaxy 4, Savages and Myth Makers. If I could be even greedier, Toymaker.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 4, 2021 1:17:17 GMT
Give it time and we will have them all. Remember back when "The Invasion" was released on DVD in September 2006. At that time we were told the only reason those were included on the DVD as they were given to the Restoration Team by BBCI or what ever they were called back then. And that those would be the only two animated. Next thing you know we got "The Ice Warriors", "The Moonbase", "The Tenth Planet" and "The French Revolution" animated as they met the 50/50 rule. Now 15 plus yeas later we have "The Power of the Daleks", "The Macra Terror", "The Faceless Ones" and "Fury from the Deep" with "The Evil of the Daleks" and "The Abominable Snowman" on the way as well as "Web of Fear" #3.. So give it another 10 years and just think where we will be, never give up. The BBC likes money and we Dr. Who fans spend money on Dr. Who like its going out of style. So just be patient I think you’re probably right but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone at Auntie isn’t thinking the way I’ve outlined on this thread. Once I put my brain into gear I realised just how few episodes needed animation to complete seasons - and I believe that’s key. Two, Six, One, Five (it’s ten as WoF3 needs doing) in that order gives four complete seasons and the profit from one funds the next. Think deviously about Wheel. It’s a Cyberman story, a “big” monster, and with the potential for a triple dip. First as a standalone, then as a Cybermen box set and, finally, as part of a complete Season Five blu ray release. The latter, of course, becomes easier with Wheel done. An alternative/complementary approach would be to animate WoF3 and Snowmen for a double dip. The first would be a Yeti box set and then as part of a Season Five release. Apply the same logic to Evil. Standalone, Dalek box set and then Season Four release. I’d also think about animation for UM - unsure why it hasn’t been done - which just leaves Smugglers and Highlanders (eight episodes) to complete the season. That’s five of the b&w seasons complete. Whilst there may be fan interest in Season Three there are so many MEs that it’s difficult to easily see a strategy that stacks up financially. Why, for example, do Toymaker when you can potentially get a triple dip with Wheel? I’m sorry but I can’t easily see any justification for looking at Season Three. If a few more episodes turned up, perhaps. Otherwise buy lottery tickets!
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Post by Robert Lia on Feb 4, 2021 3:21:45 GMT
Well for Season Three "The Celestial Toymaker" has less characters to animate so that might be considered an easy one. For season Six "The Wheel in Space" has the Cyberman as you said there a big monster so I can expect that as well. So for budget you have a Season Three story and to grab the last Cyberman tale you do "The Wheel in Space".
now for the budget breakers you have "The Crusades" and "The Underwater Menace". In the case of these two the bean counters at the BBC must decide weather to animate all 4 episodes of each story (so it can also be re sold as an animation release) (with the existing episodes included) or release it like "The Moonbase". In this case I am willing to bet when they get around to these two story's they will elect to animate all 4 strictly so they can offer them as completely animated story's. . . . I can slo see "The Moonbase" getting all 4 episodes re animated but that would be later on down the road a few years. . .
But in the long run (10-15) years you watch they will animate them all as they know collectors will buy them. . .
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Post by isaacc on Feb 4, 2021 5:23:04 GMT
I think you’re probably right but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone at Auntie isn’t thinking the way I’ve outlined on this thread. Once I put my brain into gear I realised just how few episodes needed animation to complete seasons - and I believe that’s key. Two, Six, One, Five (it’s ten as WoF3 needs doing) in that order gives four complete seasons and the profit from one funds the next. Think deviously about Wheel. It’s a Cyberman story, a “big” monster, and with the potential for a triple dip. First as a standalone, then as a Cybermen box set and, finally, as part of a complete Season Five blu ray release. The latter, of course, becomes easier with Wheel done. An alternative/complementary approach would be to animate WoF3 and Snowmen for a double dip. The first would be a Yeti box set and then as part of a Season Five release. Apply the same logic to Evil. Standalone, Dalek box set and then Season Four release. I’d also think about animation for UM - unsure why it hasn’t been done - which just leaves Smugglers and Highlanders (eight episodes) to complete the season. That’s five of the b&w seasons complete. Whilst there may be fan interest in Season Three there are so many MEs that it’s difficult to easily see a strategy that stacks up financially. Why, for example, do Toymaker when you can potentially get a triple dip with Wheel? I’m sorry but I can’t easily see any justification for looking at Season Three. If a few more episodes turned up, perhaps. Otherwise buy lottery tickets! I honestly can't see the potential for your "Dalek and Cyberman box sets". That might be taking it too far. But The Wheel in Space for Season 5 is totally right.
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 4, 2021 6:26:55 GMT
The problem is ultimately cost and effort. The Crusade is probably the worst candidate out there for release. Two episodes to be animated with huge casts, costume changes, extravegent set design and of the two episodes that still exist... a big chunk of the budget is coming from convincing the Americans to broadcast these, and rather unfortuantely The Lion is not in particularly great shape to be airing alongside a brand new animation in high definition. Personally I expect The Celestial Toymaker is going to be first, possibly Galaxy 4 being in with a shout as there's really not much to do there (army of clones versus slugs with robots in a couple of sets). The other unlikely choice I'll throw out there is Marco Polo getting in first if they order it for the 60th anniversary, otherwise I expect it will get kicked down the road because historicals are complicated work no matter how much of a fan favourite it is.
As I said, what’s your strategic aim? Someone has to fund it and the current “flavour of the month” seems to be complete seasons on blu ray. The episodes of the Crusade may be difficult so just do the two that are missing - like Moonbase but not like Faceless Ones. The restoration technology has improved, see a recent post from PV, so the Lion could well be revisited, as could Time Meddler which, iirc, wasn’t VidFired. Forget what fans may, or not, want it’s all down to money. Would two episodes of Crusade be easier - and cheaper - than, for example, seven episodes of Marco Polo? I suspect so but the various animation houses could probably advise very quickly. That’s almost certainly the easiest way to get a complete b&w season. Season Six is next, followed by Season One. The teams involved have said that the animations will need standalone releases that can break even on their own, there simply isn't the budget to spare in the Collection. If the goal was to get complete seasons out, they wouldn't be focusing on Season 4. The Crusade has been their go to example since they rebooted the animation range. The temptation is to say two episodes versus seven episodes when the real problem is 50 character models versus 30 (those are estimates on my part but not exagerations). Marco Polo, The Crusade and The Massacre have all been flagged as problems by the animators. This is all just going off comments and interviews, the situations changes constantly especially as the range continues to do well and different animation studios will encounter different problems (for example The Macra Terror/Faceless Ones team have raised concerns over The Highlanders but the Fury from the Deep team have said it would be fine). I think we'll be seeing Seasons 5 and 6 long before the Hartnell era gets anything completed.
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Post by A Barron on Feb 4, 2021 6:47:28 GMT
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Post by lousingh on Feb 4, 2021 6:56:26 GMT
I would like The Savages first. After that, The Smugglers, The Myth Makers, and The Massacre.
I really hope they try more live action recreations.
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Post by Robert Lia on Feb 4, 2021 7:57:44 GMT
Ill be happy with what ever comes out next be it "The Savages" or "The Space Pirates" as long as they are coming every one wins. . .
As I said before if you were here in September 2006 when they said the two episode's of "The Invasion" were all that could be animated do to cost, I remind you again where we are now compared to 14 years ago.
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Post by RhysH on Feb 4, 2021 8:55:55 GMT
Ill be happy with what ever comes out next be it "The Savages" or "The Space Pirates" as long as they are coming every one wins. . . As I said before if you were here in September 2006 when they said the two episode's of "The Invasion" were all that could be animated do to cost, I remind you again where we are now compared to 14 years ago. Agreed, it's such a great time at the mo with all these animations being announced and released over the last few years. Very fortunate to have those audio recordings to make it possible hey. Big thanks again to those guys from many years ago. Assuming they complete Troughton first, you can see The Smugglers being the next one done with Ben and Polly's animation mostly captured (outside of costume changes), and it would complete season 4 at that point. But I'm just happy to have any of them animated. Truthfully though, if they can get a season done for one of the 60's sets to be released, that would be really exciting for me!
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 4, 2021 9:10:45 GMT
Ill be happy with what ever comes out next be it "The Savages" or "The Space Pirates" as long as they are coming every one wins. . . As I said before if you were here in September 2006 when they said the two episode's of "The Invasion" were all that could be animated do to cost, I remind you again where we are now compared to 14 years ago.
I should say just to be clear I do expect (well hope at least) that we'll see Marco Polo and The Crusade one day and that a decade from now we'll have a complete animated run of every missing episode. It's more a matter of people spending a lot of money to make these animations happen, so the simpler projects will happen first and the more complex stuff will be left to last.
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Post by jimhope on Feb 4, 2021 11:20:23 GMT
Marco Polo the 2 missing episodes of the Crusade the Massacre Celestial Toymaker and the Smugglers
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Post by John Wall on Feb 4, 2021 11:48:00 GMT
I think you’re probably right but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone at Auntie isn’t thinking the way I’ve outlined on this thread. Once I put my brain into gear I realised just how few episodes needed animation to complete seasons - and I believe that’s key. Two, Six, One, Five (it’s ten as WoF3 needs doing) in that order gives four complete seasons and the profit from one funds the next. Think deviously about Wheel. It’s a Cyberman story, a “big” monster, and with the potential for a triple dip. First as a standalone, then as a Cybermen box set and, finally, as part of a complete Season Five blu ray release. The latter, of course, becomes easier with Wheel done. An alternative/complementary approach would be to animate WoF3 and Snowmen for a double dip. The first would be a Yeti box set and then as part of a Season Five release. Apply the same logic to Evil. Standalone, Dalek box set and then Season Four release. I’d also think about animation for UM - unsure why it hasn’t been done - which just leaves Smugglers and Highlanders (eight episodes) to complete the season. That’s five of the b&w seasons complete. Whilst there may be fan interest in Season Three there are so many MEs that it’s difficult to easily see a strategy that stacks up financially. Why, for example, do Toymaker when you can potentially get a triple dip with Wheel? I’m sorry but I can’t easily see any justification for looking at Season Three. If a few more episodes turned up, perhaps. Otherwise buy lottery tickets! I honestly can't see the potential for your "Dalek and Cyberman box sets". That might be taking it too far. But The Wheel in Space for Season 5 is totally right. Nothing is mandatory! However, there’s probably a “DW Manager” somewhere in Auntie, a latter day Dan Hall, who has to maximise income from the range - to keep their job as long as possible. They know what works and they look at what they’ve got. Season Three has to go in a cupboard unless MEs turn up. Season Four is on a back burner, so not forgotten. They can see the possibility of a full season release, maybe five or six years away. The biggest beasts in the DW jungle are Daleks so they look at Evil. Whether they do six or seven animations it’s likely to sell pretty well. It’s basically a no brainer so it’s commissioned. It makes a complete Season Four a little closer but still some years away so they get a second bite of the cherry with a box set, “A Dalek is for life, not just for Christmas”!, a few years later. There are various options, perhaps a b&w Dalek box set? If they’re able to ring fence some of the profit they can start thinking about the rest of Season Four. Apply the same thinking to Cybermen. Season Five is easier to complete than Four but more difficult than One, Two or Six. It’s big advantage is that the MEs are all “monsters”. This means that commissioning either Wheel or Snowmen is fairly easy. But, if you do Wheel you can have a Cybermen box set a couple of years downstream and then a complete Season Five later. I’d actually commission Wheel before Evil as Season Five is easier to complete than Four. Whether we, as fans, like it or not the range has to make money and that means thinking strategically and financially.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 4, 2021 12:27:22 GMT
As I said, what’s your strategic aim? Someone has to fund it and the current “flavour of the month” seems to be complete seasons on blu ray. The episodes of the Crusade may be difficult so just do the two that are missing - like Moonbase but not like Faceless Ones. The restoration technology has improved, see a recent post from PV, so the Lion could well be revisited, as could Time Meddler which, iirc, wasn’t VidFired. Forget what fans may, or not, want it’s all down to money. Would two episodes of Crusade be easier - and cheaper - than, for example, seven episodes of Marco Polo? I suspect so but the various animation houses could probably advise very quickly. That’s almost certainly the easiest way to get a complete b&w season. Season Six is next, followed by Season One. The teams involved have said that the animations will need standalone releases that can break even on their own, there simply isn't the budget to spare in the Collection. If the goal was to get complete seasons out, they wouldn't be focusing on Season 4. The Crusade has been their go to example since they rebooted the animation range. The temptation is to say two episodes versus seven episodes when the real problem is 50 character models versus 30 (those are estimates on my part but not exagerations). Marco Polo, The Crusade and The Massacre have all been flagged as problems by the animators. This is all just going off comments and interviews, the situations changes constantly especially as the range continues to do well and different animation studios will encounter different problems (for example The Macra Terror/Faceless Ones team have raised concerns over The Highlanders but the Fury from the Deep team have said it would be fine). I think we'll be seeing Seasons 5 and 6 long before the Hartnell era gets anything completed. There are three stories that, if animated, would each give a complete season: Marco Polo - Season One. Crusade - Season Two. Space Pirates - Season Six. We can speculate as to whether the approach is Moonbase or Faceless Ones - which is only really applicable to Crusade as MP is all seven and SP a minimum of five - but the logic is, I suggest, unarguable. Remember, everything yields to logic! It’s possible that SP is the easiest/cheapest so commission that. Then a couple of years downstream there’s a complete Season Six blu ray release, maybe with some more extras. Some of the profit can then be reinvested in Crusade or Marco Polo, whichever is easiest, to get another complete season. Reinvest again and you’ve done three seasons. All that really needs deciding is the order of animations. I’ve outlined elsewhere how Seasons Five and Four, I suggest in that order, could also be done. That’s, I contend, a financially workable strategy for getting five complete b&w seasons. It could take five, six, seven years and it doesn’t do anything for Season Three but is the glass half full or half empty?
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 4, 2021 12:54:41 GMT
I honestly can't see the potential for your "Dalek and Cyberman box sets". That might be taking it too far. But The Wheel in Space for Season 5 is totally right. Nothing is mandatory! However, there’s probably a “DW Manager” somewhere in Auntie, a latter day Dan Hall, who has to maximise income from the range - to keep their job as long as possible. They know what works and they look at what they’ve got. Season Three has to go in a cupboard unless MEs turn up. Season Four is on a back burner, so not forgotten. They can see the possibility of a full season release, maybe five or six years away. The biggest beasts in the DW jungle are Daleks so they look at Evil. Whether they do six or seven animations it’s likely to sell pretty well. It’s basically a no brainer so it’s commissioned. It makes a complete Season Four a little closer but still some years away so they get a second bite of the cherry with a box set, “A Dalek is for life, not just for Christmas”!, a few years later. There are various options, perhaps a b&w Dalek box set? If they’re able to ring fence some of the profit they can start thinking about the rest of Season Four. Apply the same thinking to Cybermen. Season Five is easier to complete than Four but more difficult than One, Two or Six. It’s big advantage is that the MEs are all “monsters”. This means that commissioning either Wheel or Snowmen is fairly easy. But, if you do Wheel you can have a Cybermen box set a couple of years downstream and then a complete Season Five later. I’d actually commission Wheel before Evil as Season Five is easier to complete than Four. Whether we, as fans, like it or not the range has to make money and that means thinking strategically and financially. The Collection is being managed separately from the animation range. Just to be completely brutal with it, let's say the animation range ends with The Web of Fear and we get nothing else. What happens to 60s Who in the Collection range? Absolutely nothing, they just put them out with recons and charge the same amount they were going to anyway. Even Season 3 in its current state has more episodes than anything Sylvester McCoy has to offer. Completing a season has no strategic or financial benefit to them. Now your idea of a Dalek or Cybermen box set, that does have merit. That's a totally new release that they can make extra money off of and is difficult to justify without the animated story.
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