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Post by odysseaschristou on Feb 4, 2021 13:09:50 GMT
Well for Season Three "The Celestial Toymaker" has less characters to animate so that might be considered an easy one. For season Six "The Wheel in Space" has the Cyberman as you said there a big monster so I can expect that as well. So for budget you have a Season Three story and to grab the last Cyberman tale you do "The Wheel in Space". now for the budget breakers you have "The Crusades" and "The Underwater Menace". In the case of these two the bean counters at the BBC must decide weather to animate all 4 episodes of each story (so it can also be re sold as an animation release) (with the existing episodes included) or release it like "The Moonbase". In this case I am willing to bet when they get around to these two story's they will elect to animate all 4 strictly so they can offer them as completely animated story's. . . . I can slo see "The Moonbase" getting all 4 episodes re animated but that would be later on down the road a few years. . . But in the long run (10-15) years you watch they will animate them all as they know collectors will buy them. . . Blimey 15 years, I'll be 80 by then (if I'm still going). Personally I don't care what order they are done/released, as long it'd sooner rather than later.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 4, 2021 15:16:13 GMT
How do you know that completing a season has “no strategic or financial value”?
Actually, it’s only financial that matters but it’s the strategy that delivers that.
There isn’t a complete b&w season that could be released, possibly with a few more extras. If complete colour seasons are worthwhile, and sell!, why shouldn’t a complete b&w season?
It needs trying and if it works you do more.
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 4, 2021 17:56:50 GMT
How do you know that completing a season has “no strategic or financial value”? Actually, it’s only financial that matters but it’s the strategy that delivers that. There isn’t a complete b&w season that could be released, possibly with a few more extras. If complete colour seasons are worthwhile, and sell!, why shouldn’t a complete b&w season? It needs trying and if it works you do more.
I think I explained my point but I'm happy to again. The 60s sets are coming whether there are animations or not. What has changed is that the animations are coming out fast enough to justify holding off to include them, but a couple of years ago it was their intention to just release the 60s seaons as is. That's not even speculation on my part they outright confirmed it in a number of interviews, most notably in Doctor who Magazine. If it weren't for the animations we'd be getting 60s sets with telesnap recons instead.
Completing the animations is the difference between an animated set and a recon set, that's helps the fans out but from the financial standpoint it makes little difference one way or the other (if anything adding more discs to an already huge set would probably hurt them).
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Post by John Wall on Feb 4, 2021 19:23:34 GMT
I haven’t read DW magazine for a long time and it must be noted that telesnaps don’t exist for every ME.
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 4, 2021 19:44:04 GMT
I haven’t read DW magazine for a long time and it must be noted that telesnaps don’t exist for every ME.
There's always been work arounds, and absolute worse case scenario they can just put the soundtrack with no visuals on as a special feature on one of the other stories. The animations are a bonus for the Collection, they are not a requirement and they are not in a position to be picking up financial slack if something goes wrong with the animation range. The animations have to stand on their own two feet.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 4, 2021 19:49:28 GMT
Yeah, so you pick carefully - as I’ve outlined.
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Post by richardwoods on Feb 4, 2021 20:07:52 GMT
Chuckling away to myself over how things have changed. Does anyone else remember the shellacking I got on this forum back when the 50/50 “rule” was in place for daring to suggest that The Faceless Ones and The Wheel in Space would be good candidates for future animation even in abridged form once the 50/50 stories had been dealt with? I know, no one likes a smart arse!
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Post by John Wall on Feb 4, 2021 20:21:43 GMT
I don’t recall that and hope I wasn’t one of your assailants and if I was please accept my apologies.
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Post by isaacc on Feb 4, 2021 20:55:41 GMT
I would like The Savages first. After that, The Smugglers, The Myth Makers, and The Massacre. I really hope they try more live action recreations. I think live action will only really work for Mission to the Unknown seeing as no characters from that story are really seen in any others. I for one wouldn't like seeing someone impersonating Bill Hartnell for a reconstruction.
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Post by isaacc on Feb 4, 2021 21:00:03 GMT
Nothing is mandatory! However, there’s probably a “DW Manager” somewhere in Auntie, a latter day Dan Hall, who has to maximise income from the range - to keep their job as long as possible. They know what works and they look at what they’ve got. Season Three has to go in a cupboard unless MEs turn up. Season Four is on a back burner, so not forgotten. They can see the possibility of a full season release, maybe five or six years away. The biggest beasts in the DW jungle are Daleks so they look at Evil. Whether they do six or seven animations it’s likely to sell pretty well. It’s basically a no brainer so it’s commissioned. It makes a complete Season Four a little closer but still some years away so they get a second bite of the cherry with a box set, “A Dalek is for life, not just for Christmas”!, a few years later. There are various options, perhaps a b&w Dalek box set? If they’re able to ring fence some of the profit they can start thinking about the rest of Season Four. Apply the same thinking to Cybermen. Season Five is easier to complete than Four but more difficult than One, Two or Six. It’s big advantage is that the MEs are all “monsters”. This means that commissioning either Wheel or Snowmen is fairly easy. But, if you do Wheel you can have a Cybermen box set a couple of years downstream and then a complete Season Five later. I’d actually commission Wheel before Evil as Season Five is easier to complete than Four. Whether we, as fans, like it or not the range has to make money and that means thinking strategically and financially. Season 3 only has to go in a cupboard because they haven't started yet. There is nothing stopping them from animating some of those stories.
The issue with the Dalek and Cyberman box sets is that there is only one story left of each to animate. I really doubt many people would buy a B/W Dalek box set because they'd already have every story. Same with Cybermen.
And they aren't commissioning based on completing seasons. That isn't a factor at all.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 5, 2021 0:28:52 GMT
Nothing is mandatory! However, there’s probably a “DW Manager” somewhere in Auntie, a latter day Dan Hall, who has to maximise income from the range - to keep their job as long as possible. They know what works and they look at what they’ve got. Season Three has to go in a cupboard unless MEs turn up. Season Four is on a back burner, so not forgotten. They can see the possibility of a full season release, maybe five or six years away. The biggest beasts in the DW jungle are Daleks so they look at Evil. Whether they do six or seven animations it’s likely to sell pretty well. It’s basically a no brainer so it’s commissioned. It makes a complete Season Four a little closer but still some years away so they get a second bite of the cherry with a box set, “A Dalek is for life, not just for Christmas”!, a few years later. There are various options, perhaps a b&w Dalek box set? If they’re able to ring fence some of the profit they can start thinking about the rest of Season Four. Apply the same thinking to Cybermen. Season Five is easier to complete than Four but more difficult than One, Two or Six. It’s big advantage is that the MEs are all “monsters”. This means that commissioning either Wheel or Snowmen is fairly easy. But, if you do Wheel you can have a Cybermen box set a couple of years downstream and then a complete Season Five later. I’d actually commission Wheel before Evil as Season Five is easier to complete than Four. Whether we, as fans, like it or not the range has to make money and that means thinking strategically and financially. Season 3 only has to go in a cupboard because they haven't started yet. There is nothing stopping them from animating some of those stories. The issue with the Dalek and Cyberman box sets is that there is only one story left of each to animate. I really doubt many people would buy a B/W Dalek box set because they'd already have every story. Same with Cybermen. And they aren't commissioning based on completing seasons. That isn't a factor at all.
What people will buy can be surprising! There have been oddballs over the years that have done well. Why not look to complete seasons? Try a complete b&w season release and see if it sells. If it does, do more.
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Post by Darren Jones on Feb 5, 2021 2:10:43 GMT
To answer the original question: Savages, Smugglers, Crusade and Toymaker. In that order.
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 5, 2021 9:29:14 GMT
Season 3 only has to go in a cupboard because they haven't started yet. There is nothing stopping them from animating some of those stories. The issue with the Dalek and Cyberman box sets is that there is only one story left of each to animate. I really doubt many people would buy a B/W Dalek box set because they'd already have every story. Same with Cybermen. And they aren't commissioning based on completing seasons. That isn't a factor at all.
What people will buy can be surprising! There have been oddballs over the years that have done well. Why not look to complete seasons? Try a complete b&w season release and see if it sells. If it does, do more.
I feel like I'm going around in circles on this point. There is no motivation to complete a season. The Collection has been ridiculously successful, they know the 60s sets will sell well because all the 70s and 80s sets have all been selling out before release day and there's no reason to think a black and white season would be any different. They don't need the animations because they've got 4-5 years worth of sets still in the pipeline, and several more if they go into the 21st century. In that situation, it doesn't matter if you make Marco Polo in 2023 or 2028, Season 1 just comes out in 2025 or 2030. They can wait because there's plenty to fill up the schedule with in the meantime. The animation team on the other hand, they have to be careful because a couple of duds and the range is dead and I don't think the BBC want to risk their other golden goose with a loss leading animation.
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Post by RhysH on Feb 5, 2021 10:43:30 GMT
What you say there makes sense Scott. We saw in an interview with Chris Chapman in the middle of last year (link at the bottom of this post) that it was clear they have 2 separate teams working on the Animations and the Blu-Ray collections with little to no chat between the teams on prioritising animations for the box sets and that's been clear from the releases so far - they could have "easily" got a season done if they had wanted to. But that's fine - with me. Would be nice to get a 60's set at some point (which will sell as we are all collectors and need the full set on the shelf I think!) but like you say there are another 11 seasons they can schedule in to release (after Season's 8 and 24 come out), so that's fine. Interview link below: www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgpvO-GWYhQ
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Post by John Wall on Feb 5, 2021 10:49:48 GMT
So, you pick your animations carefully!
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