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Post by simonashby on Feb 12, 2021 0:17:17 GMT
I can see no reasonable argument to deprive people of the best possible quality due to a niche subjective desire. This is a niche, I mean really niche. Any modern release should be of the best possible quality, which they are - the RT do a wonderful job of that. If you want to watch them as you did on VHS then watch it on VHS then? If you want to transfer the VHS to a computer for your own use, that's probably your best bet.
The part about restoration hybrids confuses me, as does the completely Vidfired part - neither of those two scenarios are correct. As evidenced by posts in this thread I think quite a few people don't quite know what Vidfire is and how it's used, despite thinking they do.
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Post by simonashby on Jan 18, 2021 0:53:14 GMT
"My own theory is that the guy took a film off the pile so he could do a bit of research-" The difficulty that I (and possibly others) have with this is that is seems so strange that The Web of Fear: Episode Three was taken at random. Given that before the return of The Enemy of the World, it was not really considered to be one of the better serials, if I were to steal an episode from one of the two serials, it would have been from The Web of Fear; and if I could have only taken one, it would have been the third episode: the one that introduces The Brigadier (Colonel). It just seems odd that out of twelve episodes, arguably the most valuable one was stolen by chance. There was twice that chance that one of the existing episodes would have taken instead. Another thing is, if someone did just grab it off the top of the pile, why was The Web of Fear 3 on top? If I were Philip Morris and had been looking at these film cans, I would have stacked them in order, or at the very least but the two existing episodes on top just in case someone decided to take one. Would somebody randomly reach into a pile and take one from midway through? I suppose Philip Morris could have looked at that episode especially due to it being the Brigadier's first and then put it on top last. I do think it is important to be realistic when thinking about these things (so putting aside rumours like: Fury From the Deep was stolen from Nigeria too, and things like that) and saying that an (important) episode from the middle of a serial was randomly picked from a group of twelve seems unlikely; although maybe I am just seeing villainous intent instead of a mere coincidence. Most things happen for really boring, unintentional, and unexciting reasons. Or put another way: for no reason in particular. Mystery always makes us consider juicy possibilities more. Reality is usually much more mundane.
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Post by simonashby on Dec 19, 2020 9:35:36 GMT
To me that looks almost like Super 8 film quality or like 16mm that isn't sharply focused. Could it be video that was made progressive and post-processed to look like film? That was a trend at that time. It was shot on film stock for sure.
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Post by simonashby on Feb 24, 2020 12:51:51 GMT
No, you can't. The situations aren't even comparable. The b/w film recordings were a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in distributing material to other broadcasters, and certainly not anything to do with the original production (and the director's/production team's intention). Surely the B&W 1960s episodes were also a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in filming and broadcasting material. That there's been no completely B&W Doctor Who episodes made in over 50 years suggests that it wasn't typically done as an artistic choice. Two different situations. The production team/director of a programme made in B/W knew what they were dealing with. The technical limitations (B/W is the only choice) set out the "rules" and production would have tailored and optimised the programme they created accordingly. The same goes for the production of a colour programme. However, then having B/W copies of it made afterwards - by a completely different set of people in a completely different part of the BBC, had nothing to do with the original production team and their creation/creative intentions. Doesn't matter how highbrow you think the productions were. This is about the objective and logical truth. That all being said... I have nothing against colourisation as an addition to the originals. My main point was about the lack of logic behind the suggestion that The Mind of Evil should be left in B/W... I shan't repeat myself, it's all there to read!
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Post by simonashby on Feb 23, 2020 22:15:59 GMT
Simon luv,I know exactly what you're talking about but I'm talking my subjective view of colorization and how much I enjoyed Mind of Evil in it's raw B/W state and that's the whole point surely?What if the colorization technology had never been developed or episode 1 of Invasion of the Dinosaurs had never been found,then we might not only have had to watch B/W 3rd Doctor episodes but possibly a Pertwee animation. And besides, it can't be niche because Mind of Evil was released in 1998 as a best-selling B/W VHS release! 😂 Nope. The original point was about watching a programme/film as the director originally intended. A b/w copy of a colour programme was a result of a technical/commercial limitations, not because the production team wanted it that way. It has nothing to do with that you subjectively like. If colourisation technology hadn't progressed to the point where B/W Pertwees could be seen in colour, or even animated if totally lost, is a completely irrelevant point of discussion. Partly because that is not the case anyway, and partly because we'd just have to make do. Again, nothing to do with the point of discussion. Merely a nonsensical tangent. I don't know the sales figures of The Mind of Evil, however, people bought the VHS because they wanted to see that serial. The fact that it was in B/W was a technical limitation that has now been overcome. B/W was, at the time, the only way to see it. Now we have a colour version a B/W version is now just a niche interest. The B/W version is further away from the original than the recoloured version. Just because you love the B/W version so much doesn't make your take on the above points correct. All evidence/facts suggest otherwise, no matter how you dress it up.
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Post by simonashby on Feb 22, 2020 15:35:02 GMT
No, you can't. The situations aren't even comparable. The b/w film recordings were a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in distributing material to other broadcasters, and certainly not anything to do with the original production (and the director's/production team's intention). I know Simon,but in terms of nostalgia nothing smacks of the 1970s more than what was a pristine colour programme now only existing as a B/W film print! But but but... you're now talking about something completely different to the point you were making in the first place. If you did know, as you point out to me, you wouldn't have written it in the first place! It's so clearly nonsensical! In any case, I'd suggest what you are pining for is extremely niche and not likely to happen.
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Post by simonashby on Feb 22, 2020 11:31:23 GMT
The episodes were made in B&W and that's how I want to see them. The directors knew they were taping/filming in B&W and set up their lighting and scenes accordingly. Colorization destroys what the director intended. For the same reason I never watch movies dubbed into english from another language, or movies cropped to make them fit on a 4:3 screen (instead of lettebox) or stretched to fit on a 16:9 screen (instead of pillarboxed). I guess I am a purist -- I want to see it how it was made. The Pertwee episodes, of course, are a completely different story - they were made in color, so colorization makes perfect sense. Saying that,you could go even further and say that the 16mm B/W film copies of the Pertwees should be left as they are as well.Mind of Evil was superb when released as a B/W film print on VHS all those years ago,much more effective and atmospheric than the re-colourised DVD version.Shame the B/W film print wasn't included as an extra.Hopefully it will be on any future S8 blu-ray box-set. No, you can't. The situations aren't even comparable. The b/w film recordings were a necessary compromise (technical + economical) in distributing material to other broadcasters, and certainly not anything to do with the original production (and the director's/production team's intention).
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Post by simonashby on Jul 22, 2019 9:21:34 GMT
Let's be clear. The assumptions made by the OP are unfounded.
All Pertwee episodes that don't exist on their original format survive as a 16mm film recording (telerecording). The Ambassadors of death WAS processed for colour recovery where needed and the result can be found on the DVD.
Finding new film recordings of Mind of Evil 1 and Invasion of the Dinosaurs 1 are both unlikely and probably unhelpful. IOD1 was not sold abroad. MOE1 has the chroma dots filtered out, which is something burned (or in this case, not burned) into the master. Unless it was film recorded twice then you have no chance of finding a copy with chroma dots. There is no evidence that it was recorded twice.
The NTSC conversions of some Pertwee's are a bit muddy even after reverse standards conversion, yes. However, some of them have been remastered with the 16mm film recording with the NTSC colour on top. This includes Inferno and Claws of Axos special editions. We can assume that the others were not remastered again in this way due to commercial decisions. It can be assumed that they will be processed like this for future Bluray releases.
I would also suggest that you don't take Wikipedia as a definitive source! A few minutes on Google would have answered all your questions.
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Post by simonashby on Jun 19, 2019 15:31:10 GMT
Thanks for your reply, but maybe it's not quite what I was asking. I'm pretty clued up on why things like this happened. I'm interested in what actually happened in the aftermath.
Dad's Army is well represented in the archive for the era and I am curious as to why that is. Especially given that series 3 is (bar one) intact on its original Quad format which comes after the half-missing mish-mash of series 2 (inc the 2 shed recoveries, which are actually series 2). Given that Room at the Bottom had its master wiped leads me to wonder if others were too.
Were many episodes sourced from other archives over the years (to tie up with what I've head about Australia)? Were there gaps in series 3-9 which were plugged over the years, or did the BBC simply retain them for whatever reason intentional or not?
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Post by simonashby on Jun 19, 2019 9:19:59 GMT
I'm interested in knowing how the archive of Dad's Army got to be where it is today. Doctor Who is probably the best documented for this but other programmes less so. To me, it feels as if they (series 3 onwards) were always there in the archive but I have a feeling it wasn't that simple.
Did the BBC simply retain all tapes for series 3 onwards (bar Room at the Bottom) or come the late 70s, were there big gaps to fill in the archive like the majority of other programmes? I guess what prompted me was the question of why Room at the Bottom was the odd one out, existing as a film recording.
I read somewhere that a significant portion of what exists today are thanks to returns from Australia. Any truth in that?
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Post by simonashby on Jun 15, 2019 23:03:53 GMT
I don't understand why people are saying we're not entitled to the option to watch Faceless Ones in black and white... Macra had a black and white option... Why are people suddenly so sure that Faceless is going to be colour only? I don't know where the assumption that a B/W version won't be included came from. I don't believe that there is any reason to doubt given the precedent of previous releases. However, my point about not being entitled to it is correct. We're not entitled to anything. Entitled is a strong word. Definition of entitled: "believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment" - "oneself" in this case being Doctor Who fans. If for some reason without precedent they decide to do colour only then we have to like it or lump it. We're not owed anything.
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Post by simonashby on Jun 13, 2019 12:13:35 GMT
black and white programs are increasingly not commercially viable beyond an ever aging and decreasing and unattractive to advertisers niche. Old media largely appeals to older people. That doesn't mean we're not entitled to the option. But we're not entitled to one. That said, it's reasonable to expect the option given that the original was in B/W and that previous releases have had the option. However until it's promised and you hand over your money, we're not entitled to a single thing.
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Post by simonashby on Mar 11, 2019 23:28:27 GMT
Is there any reference material what the tossing machine looked like? Highly pixelated I would guess.
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Post by simonashby on Feb 14, 2019 21:27:43 GMT
Phil's is one of three prints known to exist, but his is the only one back at the BBC. I assumed that the off air caring was the only known recording. Is there a reason why the other 2 prints were never made available for a copy to be made?
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Post by simonashby on Feb 4, 2019 20:45:58 GMT
The BBC projectionist mentioned that he had nine episodes of Doctor Who that Stevens could buy! Stevens bought 1 The Space Museum episode one 2 The Abominable Snowmen episode two 3 The Moonbase episode four 4 Invasion of the Dinosaurs episode one 5-7 three episodes ofCarnival of Monsters if that was the case what were the other 2 episodes? and
"The BBC projectionist mentioned that he had nine episodes of Doctor Who that Stevens could buy", what about other episodes he couldnt buy ? According to Ian Levine, the person Roger met had 21 episodes in total of which he only bought the seven you've listed - not nine. Interesting, not heard that one before. Was that because the other 14 already existed or did he not reveal what they were?
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