|
|
Post by Ed Brown on Jul 20, 2019 12:37:55 GMT
I'm sure there must be a good reason, but currently it escapes me, was it not possible to use the chroma dot colour recovery process successfully, following the 'Mind of Evil' episodes, 'Planet of the Daleks', etc, but not for 'The Ambassadors of Death'? Granted, the betamax NTSC colour tapes proved too unstable to recover the colour signal from them, but why was it impossible to do a chroma dot recovery from the BBC's 16mm telerecordings of the serial? The Wikipedia article about this serial, far from describing the use of the process, does not even mention the chroma dot technology, leaving me puzzled: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ambassadors_of_DeathIs any effort being put into finding more of the b/w telerecordings? It seems to me quite likely that outside the UK, few people are aware that a b/w film print has any value, given that Pertwee serials seem to be - understandably - nowhere listed as missing. Probably, no one who has a b/w print of a Pertwee episode has ever given any thought to the fact that it might be needed in London, even though there are no entirely missing Pertwee episodes. But if, say, a b/w print was to be found of 'Invasion of the Dinosaurs', potentially that serial could be fully restored to colour. Likewise, 'Mind of Evil' would benefit if another b/w print of episode 1 turned up. There are other Pertwee episodes, converted from dodgy NTSC tapes, that might benefit if a b/w telerecording was found. Probably no one is looking for this kind of material. But perhaps they ought to be, now that a b/w telerecording can be used to restore an episode's original colour signal. Here's a link to a list of specific episodes of 'Doctor Who' that might still benefit from unearthing a black and white film print - www.impossiblethings.net/restorationteam/helpus.htm |
|
|
|
Post by Ed Brown on Jul 20, 2019 16:12:37 GMT
For the sake of posterity, here is a link to a reliable source which catalogues all surviving BBC Archive holdings on film or VT for all 25 episodes of Season 7 (t/x 1970), including 'Ambassadors of Death': web.archive.org/web/20060501064024fw_/http://archive.whoniversity.co.uk/quick/s7.htmThe original website is long gone, but it appears as though you simply can't delete anything anymore! Someone, somewhere, preserves everything. In this case, the old site still exists in the files of the Internet Archive, preserving the details in this case of all the surviving original video materials for all of the episodes in Season 7. |
|
|
|
Post by Jon Preddle on Jul 21, 2019 4:04:38 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by stevegerald on Jul 21, 2019 5:58:35 GMT
Wait, what? Ambassadors had a chroma dot recovery done for the DVD release. There are other Pertwee episodes, converted from dodgy NTSC tapes, that might benefit if a b/w telerecording was found. And every single one of them has a B/W telerecording |
|
|
|
Post by Simon B Kelly on Jul 21, 2019 6:18:32 GMT
I think the OP needs to re-read the Wikipedia article that he linked to - that explains all about the colour recovery, half of which was completed for the 2002 VHS release, with the remainder of the serial colourised for the 2012 DVD
|
|
|
|
Post by brianfretwell on Jul 21, 2019 8:22:12 GMT
And as usual it all depends on if the operator making the film telerecording turned on the notch filter to remove the chroma sub-carrier or not. If it was on there would be no chroma dots to decode.
|
|
|
|
Post by Robbie Moubert on Jul 22, 2019 1:44:28 GMT
. Likewise, 'Mind of Evil' would benefit if another b/w print of episode 1 turned up. The Chroma-dots that make the colour recovery process possible were captured (or not, as in the case of MoE 1) when the film recording negative was made. Unless a second negative of Mind episode one was made that contained chroma-dots, and there's no reason to suppose there was, then no prints of that episode will contain chroma-dots. |
|
|
|
Post by simonashby on Jul 22, 2019 9:21:34 GMT
Let's be clear. The assumptions made by the OP are unfounded.
All Pertwee episodes that don't exist on their original format survive as a 16mm film recording (telerecording). The Ambassadors of death WAS processed for colour recovery where needed and the result can be found on the DVD.
Finding new film recordings of Mind of Evil 1 and Invasion of the Dinosaurs 1 are both unlikely and probably unhelpful. IOD1 was not sold abroad. MOE1 has the chroma dots filtered out, which is something burned (or in this case, not burned) into the master. Unless it was film recorded twice then you have no chance of finding a copy with chroma dots. There is no evidence that it was recorded twice.
The NTSC conversions of some Pertwee's are a bit muddy even after reverse standards conversion, yes. However, some of them have been remastered with the 16mm film recording with the NTSC colour on top. This includes Inferno and Claws of Axos special editions. We can assume that the others were not remastered again in this way due to commercial decisions. It can be assumed that they will be processed like this for future Bluray releases.
I would also suggest that you don't take Wikipedia as a definitive source! A few minutes on Google would have answered all your questions.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevegerald on Jul 23, 2019 0:57:08 GMT
.I would also suggest that you don't take Wikipedia as a definitive source! A few minutes on Google would have answered all your questions. To be fair the Wikipedia article DOES mention the Chroma dot recovery, I've no idea why OP says it doesn't. |
|
|
|
Post by Ed Brown on Aug 3, 2019 20:10:34 GMT
.I would also suggest that you don't take Wikipedia as a definitive source! A few minutes on Google would have answered all your questions. To be fair the Wikipedia article DOES mention the Chroma dot recovery, I've no idea why OP says it doesn't. The O/P would very much like you to quote the passage you refer to in Wikipedia, because he can't find it there! In fact, my question is very reasonable: neither the Wikipedia page, nor the Restoration Team's website, nor the DVD's sales page at Amazon says that chroma dot colour recovery was used on 'Ambassadors of Death'. And the point of my enquiry here is whether in making the DVD they used the chroma dot process, or whether the colour was restored using the techniques used on episode 1 of 'Mind of Evil' (alongside standard colour recovery from the Betamax home recording obtained off air by Ian Levine). And it's disconcerting to learn that, for "commercial reasons", the chroma dot process has not been applied in some of the other Pertwee serials for which it would potentially improve the poor quality colour recovered from the NTSC tapes. Would anyone care to specify which serials recovered as NTSC tapes have, and which have not, had a full restoration using the chroma dot process, because the Recovery Team's site seems a little shy of discussing the issue. |
|
|
|
Post by stevegerald on Aug 4, 2019 20:06:23 GMT
To be fair the Wikipedia article DOES mention the Chroma dot recovery, I've no idea why OP says it doesn't. The O/P would very much like you to quote the passage you refer to in Wikipedia, because he can't find it there! Right here: Would anyone care to specify which serials recovered as NTSC tapes have, and which have not, had a full restoration using the chroma dot process, because the Recovery Team's site seems a little shy of discussing the issue. None of them used chroma dots, they used a different process that combines the NTSC tapes with the 16mm films. Though only Inferno and Claws of Axos did so, every other one of them is just presented as NTSC tapes converted to PAL. And it's disconcerting to learn that, for "commercial reasons", the chroma dot process has not been applied in some of the other Pertwee serials for which it would potentially improve the poor quality colour recovered from the NTSC tapes. The "commercial reason" is that the process was only discovered after all of them were released and only Inferno and Claws of Axos has had a special edition release since then, and the others will probably only be done when the Blu-Ray range gets to them. |
|
|
|
Post by Logan Jutanberg on Aug 4, 2019 21:27:07 GMT
I think the OP was referring to the fact the restoration appeared to primarily use the PBS recordings even when the rainbow banding was still visible, even when chroma don't was an option. Maybe I'm wrong idk
|
|
|
|
Post by martinjwills on Oct 30, 2019 18:53:21 GMT
Episodes 2 to 7 were a hotpoch of Colour and B&W, where coloured sections using colour recovery 1, where possible, the banding problems had halted work on the DVD for years.
I beleive they only Chroma dotted the parts that were still in B&W, and the restored colour parts were left as is, including the whole episode the great website The Destruction of time says the following Ep1 Original 2" PAL master , Eps 2,3 &4 Chroma Dot recovery, Ep 5 Colour restoration [1], Eps 6 & 7 Chroma Dot recovery. missingepisodes.blogspot.com/p/colour.html |
|
