Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 29, 2015 22:44:42 GMT
John was paid a fee for his recon work. He offered to deliver a much superior product at no additional cost to the BBC. The BBC declined it and went with an inferior product (the recon) for the same money that would have bought them a much better received recon. This is my only issue with the DVD. Still there are other recons available online if you care to look and no doubt a high quality fan animation like with The Web of Fear 3 is only a matter of time. . . . Yes, I agree that is frustrating, but it still doesn't justify anyone describing the release as "shoddy". Ian Levine would seem to disagree with you, and I agree with him.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 29, 2015 22:03:48 GMT
I can just imagine what the BBC will do if episode 1 of "Power of the Gargleblaster" is ever recovered. Eh? What's the joke?
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 29, 2015 19:27:12 GMT
John was paid a fee for his recon work. He offered to deliver a much superior product at no additional cost to the BBC. The BBC declined it and went with an inferior product (the recon) for the same money that would have bought them a much better received recon. This is my only issue with the DVD. Still there are other recons available online if you care to look and no doubt a high quality fan animation like with The Web of Fear 3 is only a matter of time. . . . Agreed!! That's what I've been getting at over the last few posts.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 29, 2015 16:19:47 GMT
Yes, I can see the commercial arm of a large public organisation which is currently under a lot of scrutiny behaving in just such an underhand manner purely in order to sell a few extra copies of a low interest DVD. That doesn't sound even remotely insane. I think the more astute members of this forum might just have realised that I wasn't actually being serious!!! I can't believe people are actually taking this seriously...
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 29, 2015 16:05:02 GMT
No. The BBC hired the same bloke who did the Web 3 one to do it. They gave him a set of instructions (in short, the instructions were to make it as basis as possible), there is no copyright issues at all. It's BBC material. The BBC just wanted to be stingy about it. You're not listening, Owen. The BBC may not have been allowed to accept this freebie recon from John. Read Alan's post more carefully, please. I did. It's still wrong. The BBC gave him a set of instructions, as I have previously stated. The BBC could have easily given him a brief saying "feel free to use zooms, include a title sequence. Keep it up to the Web 3 standard" but no, instead they decided to hire him to cobble together a basic recon that even I could have done.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 29, 2015 15:36:54 GMT
One reason for the refusal of material could lie in the rules of the BBC (and most companies). They cannot essentially receive gifts and presents from outside the company/corporation. I would think that with the complex copyright issues involved they cannot be seen to be doing 'favours' even though they may be free - and if it was offered from outside. At the place I work, every Christmas, the managers are lavished with, sometimes, very expensive gifts. Without exception, every one has to be sent back. That's a strict rule and as a large corporation the BBC are no exception. Alan No. The BBC hired the same bloke who did the Web 3 one to do it. They gave him a set of instructions (in short, the instructions were to make it as basis as possible), there is no copyright issues at all. It's BBC material. The BBC just wanted to be stingy about it.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 29, 2015 10:57:32 GMT
A DVD with interviews, commentaries and a few extras are hardly shoddy. The BBC are under enormous fiscal pressure right now an is well recorded. TUM will not bring a massive profit (if any) and the budget was set accordingly. The cost of animation/reconstruction costs and I'm sure it was just not worth it. A while ago people were demanding its release even if were just the two episodes and it's still not good enough! Someone even said that the BBC should make it all bells and wistles and that the cost should be met by the BBC because they were the ones that wiped it in the first place. There needs to be a reality check here. If the BBC are basically being forced to cut a whole TV station to save costs, then TUM is hardly going to have money laveshed on it for no return.Only the fans will buy it NOT the general public and sales will be low. Common sense and perspective here from Alan, although to be fair, what is causing people to lose their sympathy for the BBC is the apparent fact that they were offered superior recons for no extra cost, but chose to reject them. You've hit the nail on the head with that one, Rob. I think everyone understands that the BBC are under pressure from the government, having to scrap BBC Three 'n' all (no loss, if you ask me. Awful channel) but the BBC could have produced an excellent recon. I mean, that's my only grievance with the BBC concerning the DVD.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 29, 2015 8:46:47 GMT
Pretty sad to read that people have bashed John Kelly on other forums. It's appalling, ignorant behaviour. John has made absolutely clear the draconian brief that he was instructed to work to. I thought it was public knowledge that it wasn't John's fault? It is the BBC's, for releasing such a shoddy product.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 28, 2015 14:48:56 GMT
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 27, 2015 19:58:15 GMT
I'm not saying the BBC aren't under budget constraints, but the people who did the Web 3 recon offered to do a high-quality recon for the BBC at the same price, literally costing the BBC nothing. The BBC turned down the deal out of spite. Now that I haven't heard before! Are we talking animation over telesnaps here? If this is the case then that's a real shame. Talking fan animation, nothing has come close to Mr Levine's Mission to the Unknown which stands up alongside the officially released animated episodes. Noooo, I'm talking about the guys who created the Web 3 recon for the official DVD release.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 27, 2015 17:54:21 GMT
Speaking in grabby entitled mode what on earth is the BBC thinking, where are the stand alone releases of The Crusade, The Faceless Ones, and The Wheel in Space all with animation for the missing bits, (or lots). I feel a petition coming on............ I'm not saying the BBC aren't under budget constraints, but the people who did the Web 3 recon offered to do a high-quality recon for the BBC at the same price, literally costing the BBC nothing. The BBC turned down the deal out of spite.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 27, 2015 17:41:52 GMT
What are you implying, Tony? If you wanted something for months, and when it finally comes out, it isn't to the standard you expect, you're gonna be angry. Especially considering we know the BBC could have done A LOT better. What Tony is implying is that there we always be grabby, entitled fans who will always find something to complain about, without stopping to think that actually, they've got a bloody good deal as it is. And he is of course quite right. If a product isn't up to your standard, you're gonna complain about it. It's as simple as that. The BBC did a shoddy job on the recons, and they could have done a lot better. The Doctor Who DVD range is THE most extnsive of any collection in the world. Who fans have been spoilt rotten. Extras galore from vintage, newly created SFX if you want them, specially filmed new things, not to mention the extensive restoration of the episodes (some twice)! So to bemoan the fact of having fewer extras on the final release is a little ungrateful. Baring more recoveries, the range is finished. the budget for this release, I would imagine, would be quite low, as they would expect to return a profit and I don't think that the sales would be setting any records. We finally got what we wanted and we should be grateful for that. Alan I say again, it's not the extras I'm talking about. It's the recons for Episode 1 & 4.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 27, 2015 15:46:06 GMT
What, you mean is anyone going to complain that the generous package of extras on this release isn't quite as generous as on previous releases..? No, I would hope that most people probably won't be as grabby and self-entitled as to do that. Have you met Doctor Who fandom, Rob? What are you implying, Tony? If you wanted something for months, and when it finally comes out, it isn't to the standard you expect, you're gonna be angry. Especially considering we know the BBC could have done A LOT better.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 26, 2015 15:22:09 GMT
Yes, episodes 2 and 3 are the main feature, recons of episodes 1 and 4 are extras. I would personally class the recons as a main feature, they are there on the episode list. The BBC did a shoddy job. I'll see about quality when I get the DVD.
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Owen Conway
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For some people, small, beautiful events are what life is all about...
Posts: 91
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Post by Owen Conway on Oct 26, 2015 11:40:29 GMT
Out of interest, will anyone be complaining about the general poor-quality of this product? What, you mean is anyone going to complain that the generous package of extras on this release isn't quite as generous as on previous releases..? No, I would hope that most people probably won't be as grabby and self-entitled as to do that. It's not the extras I'm talking about. Episodes 1 & 4?
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