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Post by Jon Preddle on Dec 20, 2013 4:17:46 GMT
I agree that the films are not from NZ. From a geographical perspective, Singapore is certainly a strong candidate. Sigh -- yet another revision for the Bicycling Chains!
As Robert Lia has said above, if the series aired on one AFRTS station, it would have aired on others. And yet I've searched "Pacific Stars & Stripes" - the US military newspaper for the Asia / Pacific region - and the only DW listings I found for the 1970s were the Cushing Dalek movies.
There were a lot of search returns for The War Games, but that is only to be expected in a military publication!
And having now read the Twitter exchange above, there is a very high possibility that although the films were sent there, the eps didn't actually air on AFRTS. (Unless any markings on the film cans and reels irrefutably prove otherwise!!!)
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 20, 2013 4:21:37 GMT
So more lost paperwork at the BBC another sale with no record. We may just have to wait until the films arrive back at the BBC to find out if there are any information of the film reels like with the ones returned from Nigeria.
Perhaps Ian can get his contact to snap a few pictures of the film cans to see if they can shed any light
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 20, 2013 4:25:44 GMT
I agree that the films are not from NZ. From a geographical perspective, Singapore is certainly a strong candidate. Sigh -- yet another revision for the Bicycling Chains! As Robert Lia has said above, if the series aired on one AFRTS station, it would have aired on others. And yet I've searched "Pacific Stars & Stripes" - the US military newspaper for the Asia / Pacific region - and the only DW listings I found for the 1970s were the Cushing Dalek movies. There were a lot of search returns for The War Games, but that is only to be expected in a military publication! And having now read the Twitter exchange above, there is a very high possibility that although the films were sent there, the eps didn't actually air on AFRTS. (Unless any markings on the film cans and reels irrefutably prove otherwise!!!) That is another possibility that they were sent there in error but who would accidentally send 5 random episodes to an AFRTS affiliate in Taiwan ?. Perhaps the actual "base newspapers" the local rag as you might call it would have to be checked but those were small runs and as many of the bases have long since closed that might be mission impossible. And if they were sent there in error is there any documentation of the BBC sending out replacement copies to the broadcaster that was supposed to receive them Also if they were sent as audition prints they surely would have been sent to AFRTS Headquarters in Los Angeles not to an affiliate station in Taiwan
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Dec 20, 2013 4:28:03 GMT
I agree that the films are not from NZ. From a geographical perspective, Singapore is certainly a strong candidate. Sigh -- yet another revision for the Bicycling Chains! As Robert Lia has said above, if the series aired on one AFRTS station, it would have aired on others. And yet I've searched "Pacific Stars & Stripes" - the US military newspaper for the Asia / Pacific region - and the only DW listings I found for the 1970s were the Cushing Dalek movies. There were a lot of search returns for The War Games, but that is only to be expected in a military publication! And having now read the Twitter exchange above, there is a very high possibility that although the films were sent there, the eps didn't actually air on AFRTS. (Unless any markings on the film cans and reels irrefutably prove otherwise!!!) The possibilities that this raises are quite exciting. However, I am finding myself tempering my excitement in hopes we can get more information. I hope Ian can give us more details later on when he's willing to. I also hope, as another poster suggested, that we get some images of the labels on these cans and on the reels. It would help immensely with this debate. I do hope the reels are finding their way back to the BBC, but at the very least I hope the owner cooperates with the BBC.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Dec 20, 2013 4:30:05 GMT
I agree that the films are not from NZ. From a geographical perspective, Singapore is certainly a strong candidate. Sigh -- yet another revision for the Bicycling Chains! As Robert Lia has said above, if the series aired on one AFRTS station, it would have aired on others. And yet I've searched "Pacific Stars & Stripes" - the US military newspaper for the Asia / Pacific region - and the only DW listings I found for the 1970s were the Cushing Dalek movies. There were a lot of search returns for The War Games, but that is only to be expected in a military publication! And having now read the Twitter exchange above, there is a very high possibility that although the films were sent there, the eps didn't actually air on AFRTS. (Unless any markings on the film cans and reels irrefutably prove otherwise!!!) That is another possibility that they were sent there in error but who would accidentally send 5 random episodes to an AFRTS affiliate in Taiwan ?. Perhaps the actual "base newspapers" the local rag as you might call it would have to be checked but those were small runs and as many of the bases have long since closed that might be mission impossible. Would there have been non-broadcasts by AFRTS? Would they lend reels out to be shown on a projector screen for a small group of soldiers in a room? Possibly similar to the Macra Terror in New Zealand's Schoolroom theory?
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 20, 2013 4:34:05 GMT
Its highly doubtful that TV shows would be sent to a Department of Defense School for viewing in the class room. Now educational films are a completely different matter but I cant see any class taking 25 minutes a day for 10 days to watch The War Games?
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Post by Jon Preddle on Dec 20, 2013 4:38:15 GMT
That is another possibility that they were sent there in error but who would accidentally send 5 random episodes to an AFRTS affiliate in Taiwan ?. Perhaps the actual "base newspapers" the local rag as you might call it would have to be checked but those were small runs and as many of the bases have long since closed that might be mission impossible. And if they were sent there in error is there any documentation of the BBC sending out replacement copies to the broadcaster that was supposed to receive them Also if they were sent as audition prints they surely would have been sent to AFRTS Headquarters in Los Angeles not to an affiliate station in Taiwan Sorry, I meant although the films were found in Taiwan they had nothing to do with AFRTS. The finder says they were were originally aired in Vietnam, but somehow ended up in Taiwan afterwards. Either of these two 'facts' might be wrong. As I said - cans and labels, please! ADDENDA: The Singapore station was RTS, which is not that much different from AFRTS. Is the label being misread?
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 20, 2013 4:49:22 GMT
It is possible they were never screened by AFRTS.
But for it to have been sent to AFRTS you must also understand customs and host country rules. For an overseas military base the USA gets everything it needs to support that base from the USA. With notable exceptions of meat, dairy, fruits and vegetables. The US Facility can arrange to purchase special items from the local host country with approval.
Now AFRTS Taiwan's official address would have been an FPO (Fleet Post Office Box) in San Francisco or Los Angeles. And all there programing would be shipped direct from Los Angeles to AFRTS Taiwan. Any exception would be if it were flown direct from military base to military base. Say after screening in the Philippines it was flown from NAS Cubi Point to Kadena AB in Okinawa on a military plane. It would still need the proper paperwork and be cleared threw military customs.
Still its a mystery. Does any one know if any other BBC programs were found besides those few Doctor Who episodes
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Dec 20, 2013 4:49:24 GMT
That is another possibility that they were sent there in error but who would accidentally send 5 random episodes to an AFRTS affiliate in Taiwan ?. Perhaps the actual "base newspapers" the local rag as you might call it would have to be checked but those were small runs and as many of the bases have long since closed that might be mission impossible. And if they were sent there in error is there any documentation of the BBC sending out replacement copies to the broadcaster that was supposed to receive them Also if they were sent as audition prints they surely would have been sent to AFRTS Headquarters in Los Angeles not to an affiliate station in Taiwan Sorry, I meant although the films were found in Taiwan they had nothing to do with AFRTS. The finder says they were were originally aired in Vietnam, but somehow ended up in Taiwan afterwards. Either of these two 'facts' might be wrong. As I said - cans and labels, please! ADDENDA: The Singapore station was RTS, which is not that much different from AFRTS. Is the label being misread? Where does the finder say that they aired in Vietnam? Only mention of Vietnam is that the Americans were in that war. Here's a response Ian gave to someone on twitter: @feline_one They were sent to American Forces TV back in the 1960s, during the Vietnam War. They were held by the owner of a radio station.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Dec 20, 2013 4:55:48 GMT
True, but why mention Vietnam if that wasn't a factor in the recovery?
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Dec 20, 2013 5:02:51 GMT
True, but why mention Vietnam if that wasn't a factor in the recovery? Vietnam is the "when". They were sent to American Forces TV during that time frame.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Dec 20, 2013 5:05:03 GMT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Forces_Network#TaiwanAFRTS in Taiwan became the International Radio Community Taipei. Or, IRCT for short -- an english speaking station. I'm wondering if this is the location of the "radio station owner" Ian levine said had the reels of film.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Dec 20, 2013 5:10:12 GMT
True, but why mention Vietnam if that wasn't a factor in the recovery? Vietnam is the "when". They were sent to American Forces TV during that time frame. Why didn't he just say in the "1960s" (or more accurately the 1970s, as it would be for seriala that aired in the UK in 1968/69) without the Vietnam qualifier? I'm sure what Ian Levine meant by what he said will become clearer in time.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Dec 20, 2013 5:16:18 GMT
There was someone about 10 years ago, who mentioned on one of these boards, that they watched B&W Who on the cable system of the Minot North Dakota Air Force Base around 1973 to 1975.
Is it possible that somehow material could have been aired domestically by the US military inside the USA?
Or I wonder if someone stationed in Minot is misremembering where they saw it, and they were posted in the Pacific somewhere at the time ... could explain some of these odd untraceable US rumours from the early 1970s.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Dec 20, 2013 5:19:44 GMT
There was someone about 10 years ago, who mentioned on one of these boards, that they watched B&W Who on the cable system of the Minot North Dakota Air Force Base around 1973 to 1975. Is it possible that somehow material could have been aired domestically by the US military inside the USA? Or I wonder if someone stationed in Minot is misremembering where they saw it, and they were posted in the Pacific somewhere at the time ... could explain some of these odd untraceable US rumours from the early 1970s. it wasn't long ago someone was here saying their father was convinced of seeing Doctor Who in Texas I believe. EDIT: The rumor in question is here: missingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/8815/troughton-usa-1971-2 This is the time frame as mentioned by Ian. Perhaps the father was in the Vietnam War and stationed in Taiwan at some point? At any case, I would suggest to him showing images of the episodes found (along with some control images from other episodes) and sees if that jogs memories at all.
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