Troughton in USA in 1971-2

[Jeffrey Ellis]

I know that all the records and documents are opposed to my story here, but I want to share it with you.  The bottom line is that I think Doctor Who *was* broadcast in Texas in 1971-2 starring Patrick Troughton.  If you disbelieve me, you will not hurt my feelings, as I would not believe it either without the personal connection to the story.  I have shared it a couple of times over the years (back on r.a.dw, maybe even here), and it has never led anywhere.  But I just want to report it again, as I feel it has been overlooked in episode hunting...

In about 1984, my father introduced my brother and me to Doctor Who, through the Tom Baker episodes on our local PBS station, WGBH in Boston (Channel 2).  He explained that this was a show he used to watch when he was in college, and gave us the basics of it.  We started with episode 2 of Planet of Evil, and by the time Pyramids of Mars wrapped, I was hooked.

When I grew more knowledgeable about the show, and understood that there were missing episodes, I asked him what he could remember about the show from his college days.  He couldn't ever tell me a lot of details about it, but he strongly remembered that in some episode there were some people running back and forth underground or in caves or something, escaping from some monster.  He assured me that Patrick Troughton was the actor playing the Doctor.

As time went on, I'd question him about his memory of it, explaining that all the records said that it was not possible to have seen Patrick Troughton as the Doctor in Texas in 1971-72.  He continues to insist on it.  He remembers the apartment he was in when he was watching it, which he only lived in for that one year (his senior year).  He married my mother the following year, and he definitely was not married when he watched it.  He has never shaken in his belief that it was Patrick Troughton.  He had a black-and-white TV, so even if it had been Pertwee, he would not have seen it in color.  But I cannot underscore how strongly he insists it was Troughton.

When the 90-episode rumor was circulating a couple of weeks back, I told him about it.  He said, "Let me guess, they found the episodes in Fort Worth."  In other words, he still is sticking to the story.

Anyway, as I said, I don't have more details than this.  I have no idea which television station this was on.  I certainly do not want to stir up any false hope among fans, but in case someone else can do something with this information, I wanted to offer it.

[Steven Sigel]

I seriously doubt that as there are no records of any sales to the USA at all at that time - but it shouldn't be that hard to verify one way or another -- old newspapers from that area should be available, all you'd have to do is look at the TV listings.

[Andrew Haddow]

Could you perhaps show him The Silurians (Pertwee) and Underwater Menace (Troughton) to see if it jogs his memory? Both feature caves.

[Deleted]

I'm thinking of escaping from the Yeti in the underground tunnels in Web Of Fear too!

[John Wall]

Jul 5, 2013 18:29:55 GMT Steven Sigel said:

I seriously doubt that as there are no records of any sales to the USA at all at that time - but it shouldn't be that hard to verify one way or another -- old newspapers from that area should be available, all you'd have to do is look at the TV listings.

Did the listings identify the story or just say "Dr. Who" ?

[Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy]

I'm tempted to say he saw The Three Doctors in black and white, as there is a lot of "cave running" and an appearance of Patrick Troughton. However, that serial wasn't introduced to the United States until 1988. I highly suggest going to a Fort Worth library or historical society to find tv guide listings for the years 1970-1973. (Giving him a memory buffer of one year either end). If you find listings for ANY Doctor Who at that time period it would certainly be a surprise. According to gallifreybase.com/w/index.php/Category:Texas the known Broadcasters of Doctor Who in Texas all started in the 80s. Oklahoma started in 1878, but that was with Tom Baker.

[Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy]

Jul 5, 2013 19:31:46 GMT John Wall said:

Jul 5, 2013 18:29:55 GMT Steven Sigel said:

I seriously doubt that as there are no records of any sales to the USA at all at that time - but it shouldn't be that hard to verify one way or another -- old newspapers from that area should be available, all you'd have to do is look at the TV listings.

Did the listings identify the story or just say "Dr. Who" ?

Depends on the newspaper. Some were detailed, others not so much. I've looked for Doctor Who listings in my own local newspaper and they were abysmal with detail.

[Andrew Haddow]

Jul 5, 2013 19:38:03 GMT Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy said:

Oklahoma started in 1878, but that was with Tom Baker.

Crikey, they were showing it that far back?

[John Wall]

How much information was there in TV Guide ?

[Steven Sigel]

Jul 5, 2013 19:31:46 GMT John Wall said:

Jul 5, 2013 18:29:55 GMT Steven Sigel said:

I seriously doubt that as there are no records of any sales to the USA at all at that time - but it shouldn't be that hard to verify one way or another -- old newspapers from that area should be available, all you'd have to do is look at the TV listings.

Did the listings identify the story or just say "Dr. Who" ?

Doesn't really matter - a) in 1971 so far as we know, no Dr. Who was being shown in the US at all and b) In 1971 I don't believe (but could be wrong) that any pertwee episodes were available for sale. So - it would be big news if there was any evidence of a screening of any doctor who in the US at that point.

I personally think this is a case of mis-remembering -- he might have seen pertwee or baker in the mid to late 70s, and/or perhaps saw Troughtons in the 80s, and just mixed up his time frames.

[Jon Preddle]

Jul 5, 2013 18:23:22 GMT Jeffrey Ellis said:

I know that all the records and documents are opposed to my story here, but I want to share it with you.  The bottom line is that I think Doctor Who *was* broadcast in Texas in 1971-2 starring Patrick Troughton.  If you disbelieve me, you will not hurt my feelings, as I would not believe it either without the personal connection to the story.  I have shared it a couple of times over the years (back on r.a.dw, maybe even here), and it has never led anywhere.  But I just want to report it again, as I feel it has been overlooked in episode hunting...
[snip]

I'm confident that the Troughtons never aired in the US in 1972 as there is no documentary evidence to back up what you say... But there are a couple of possibilities: what your father saw was in fact:

* The Peter Cushing movies - these aired on several US stations over the years.
* Broadcasts from Mexico - the Hartnells were repeated on a regional basis in the 1970s - albeit in Spanish, although I doubt that TV signals from that far over the border could reach Fort Worth!
* Something else; a different SF series (probably not British) that featured an actor who looked like Troughton.

As Steven says, have a look for TV listings; a local library should have copies of old newspapers and/or TV Guides.

[John Wall]

It's worth a couple of hours to go and check in the library.

[Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy]

This is a good example for anyone suspicious of their memories or someone else's memories that are not matching up with what Sales/Broadcast records say. Newspaper TV Listings are a good source.

EDIT: Many libraries will display old newspaper archives using a microfiche reader. Although a few machines do digitize the film for you, you'll have to print out the pages you find (usually for a few cents per page) and then scan them into a computer yourself with a scanner. If you do find anything of interest I'd suggest making sure you print the newspaper title and date along with what you find so there is easy reference.

[Jeffrey Ellis]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses.

Re: the exact episodes... I agree with Steven, it does not seem like it would matter which episodes they were, considering this is before Doctor Who is supposed to have been in the U.S.  I have tried on several occasions over the years to trigger Dad's memories by showing him pictures or describing more details of episodes, even suggesting things like The Sensorites, The Macra Terror, even Enemy of the World... but he's never been able to pinpoint more specifically.  (To be fair to him, we are now talking about episode details of a show he saw 41 years ago!)

Re: TV listings... It is a great idea, and has been suggested before.  However, I don't live anywhere near Fort Worth, and therefore do not have ready access to local archives of newspapers.    Someone once also suggested looking for programs labelled "Sci-Fi Theatre" or something more general that might have contained Doctor Who.  One other thought has been brought up--and that would be that not all television stations in 1972 would necessarily be as concerned about the legality of broadcasting as they might be today, particularly college TV stations.  In other words, if there were some station that was not really legitimately playing authorized copies of the show, they might not be submitting program schedules to a newspaper.  Not that I'm downing this idea, I think it is great to try to find the old TV listings to see if there is something there; I just don't have any ability to do it.

Re: Dad's memory... I cannot prove that his memories are not mistaken, of course.  Some points that have convinced me over the years, however, of its veracity: (1) he sought out Doctor Who to share with us what he used to watch in college, we didn't stumble upon it just to have him say, "Oh, I think I used to watch this in college;" (2) he has never wavered in his memories that he does have, including the place/time he saw it, even if his memories are not deep, even in spite of the evidence to the contrary; (3) in 1984-ish (when he first shared the story with us), the world was not awash with time-travelling British television shows, thus making Doctor Who pretty unique and difficult to confuse with other programs.

And of course, I know that even if this is true and someone was able to find evidence of it, that does not necessarily have any bearing on recovering missing episodes.  

[John Wall]

I think it's worth noting what a good thread this is Unlike some it's not a vague rumour of umpteen missing episodes about to be returned or having been returned but with a Watergate type conspiracy to keep fans like mushrooms. We've got somebody with an approximate date and location and various people weighing in with suggestions to help. It's unlikely to result in anything but.... And nobody has been accused of being a charmless nerk from the Lancashire coast