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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 24, 2013 22:51:35 GMT
well the BBC apparently does not have any sales records to AFRTS in there archives. But they also are missing sales records to several Jon Pertwee TV stations in the early 1970's that we have Betamax video tapes with TV station Idents on them. Also I don't see AFRTS buying British Radio Comedy series.
But if they did then they would be networked across the entire AFRTS Pacific theater and not shown on just one AFRTS affiliate be it radio or television
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 25, 2013 4:25:23 GMT
It does seem to be the fragmented remains of some collection. Otherwise the rest of those serials would be there also (I would think). If a war broke out in one of those countries in the region, could some of their tv episodes have been dispersed-a few to military bases nearby for 'temporary safe keeping'? When war breaks out people are more interesting in saving life's than episodes of what would be an imported TV series. But your right it is the fragmented remains of some collection or sale. Until they are returned to the BBC so that the film prints can be properly ID (for example to see if they are "dupes") we will just have to keep digging.
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Post by AndyLehrer on Dec 25, 2013 5:03:59 GMT
Lets not forget that AFRTS in Chinese Taipei was a radio only service, the film cans may have gotten mixed in with other radio material over the years and was then re sold as a collection with former AFRTS radio material. That's quite possible, especially when one considers that decades passed between the AFRTS Taiwan closing and the collector acquiring part of their archive.
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 25, 2013 21:13:53 GMT
and AFRTS was also a commercial free broadcaster which would have made shows like Doctor Who attractive back then as they did not have to splice PSA's (Public Service announcement's) into the films. In US made shows the commercial times were filled with base information and military related spots. But no proper commercials like for Target or Tesco or any kind of commercial store.
In fact the only advertisements allowed of any kind were in movie theaters and they were the trailers for films that were going to be shown into he coming weeks and months
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 27, 2013 18:18:47 GMT
It does seem to be the fragmented remains of some collection. Otherwise the rest of those serials would be there also (I would think). If a war broke out in one of those countries in the region, could some of their tv episodes have been dispersed-a few to military bases nearby for 'temporary safe keeping'?
I think the general consensus is that if they were broadcast there, rather than destroying them they sold them off to various film collectors in the nearby area. As a result there could be numerous episodes from Series 6 floating around there (perhaps even missing ones). It is just a matter of trying to locate them as there doesn't seem to be that much interest there (to try and convince the owner of these eight episodes to look out five of them took a lot of effort, never mind going around every film collector in the nearby area).
Anybody here got any contacts in that part of the world?
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John Wall
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Post by John Wall on Dec 27, 2013 19:49:30 GMT
Ian Levine kept Paul Vanezis is the loop so I expect he'll use any resources he might have access to to progress things. I hope that the five prints are on their way home to see if any clues to their origin can be found. There are only seven episodes missing from Season 6 so the chances of the other three being missing are fairly low - but still worth checking.
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 27, 2013 23:59:32 GMT
Ian Levine kept Paul Vanezis is the loop so I expect he'll use any resources he might have access to to progress things. I hope that the five prints are on their way home to see if any clues to their origin can be found. There are only seven episodes missing from Season 6 so the chances of the other three being missing are fairly low - but still worth checking.
Fairly low, but still far better than nothing.
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 28, 2013 0:40:48 GMT
If you don't try you wont find anything. I suppose if are film collectors in Hong Kong there might be some things out there. Obviously these 5 episode went walkies from a TV archive and made there way to Chinese Taipei. I just don't think there from the ABC. My bets on Hong Kong and Singapore as they are both Chinese speaking territory's
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John Wall
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Post by John Wall on Dec 28, 2013 0:44:38 GMT
Ian Levine kept Paul Vanezis is the loop so I expect he'll use any resources he might have access to to progress things. I hope that the five prints are on their way home to see if any clues to their origin can be found. There are only seven episodes missing from Season 6 so the chances of the other three being missing are fairly low - but still worth checking.
Fairly low, but still far better than nothing.
I totally agree Ian, bless his little cotton socks, somehow came across a reference to episodes being in Taiwan - although nobody really knows how they got there - and followed it up to find five Season Six episodes, with another three "lurking". In terms of a possibility for recovering missing episodes this has to be a better bet than any omnirumour
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 28, 2013 13:43:47 GMT
Fairly low, but still far better than nothing.
I totally agree Ian, bless his little cotton socks, somehow came across a reference to episodes being in Taiwan - although nobody really knows how they got there - and followed it up to find five Season Six episodes, with another three "lurking". In terms of a possibility for recovering missing episodes this has to be a better bet than any omnirumour
I posted a link to a site giving the full story a page or so back. It was all the work of someone else who heard about it and attempted themselves to get a hold of the episodes but were unable to get the owner interested, so he contacted Ian Levine who in turn contacted Paul Vanezis and these were the five they were able to find. The others are out there somewhere, and they hope by announcing the recovery they could spark some interest in the local film collectors who could have further episodes beyond this one collector and his eight episodes.
Getting a hold of the five would be the best bet because if at least one of them is of higher quality than the BBC have, then they will want a copy. The owner will get a reward, and this could "encourage" him to search out the other three.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Dec 28, 2013 20:02:23 GMT
I know that there are a lot of original negative copies for the episodes in season 6, which often provide the best quality episodes. I can't remember if these specific episodes have their negatives already.
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Post by Rich Hughes on Dec 28, 2013 21:47:00 GMT
The Dominators
2- Exists as original 16mm negative found at the BFI in 2008 3- Exists as original 35mm original negative
The Seeds of Death
2- Exists as 16mm negative found at BBC Enterprises in 1978
The War Games
1- Exists as 16mm original negative found at the BFI in 2008 2- Exists as 16mm original negative found at the BFI in 2008
These are probably the best versions of what is held for these episodes
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 29, 2013 1:38:14 GMT
Yes these prints when they are returned will give us an idea possibly what country they were from as there were not very many prints of season 6 episode's made. It will just help to solve a big mystery.
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Post by John Green on Dec 29, 2013 1:50:04 GMT
Yes these prints when they are returned will give us an idea possibly what country they were from as there were not very many prints of season 6 episode's made. It will just help to solve a big mystery. I'd add the word 'official' to that first sentence.I'm guessing there's no copy-protect on 16mm films? (I always chuckle at old movies when the blackmailer says that once the payment's made the photos and the negatives will be handed over).
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Post by brianfretwell on Dec 29, 2013 12:41:50 GMT
Yes these prints when they are returned will give us an idea possibly what country they were from as there were not very many prints of season 6 episode's made. It will just help to solve a big mystery. I'd add the word 'official' to that first sentence.I'm guessing there's no copy-protect on 16mm films? (I always chuckle at old movies when the blackmailer says that once the payment's made the photos and the negatives will be handed over). Yes I believe I read that some film recordings (of other shows as well as Dr Who) were "borrowed from the library and copy prints made, some to 16mm some to 8mm IIRC. Also most sales lists of 16mm films of all sorts, from Derann Films had the message "Unless stated, no rights given or implied, films strictly for home use only". That implied they were able to be copied (or publicly show for a fee).
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