Missing material returns question

[Greg H]

I was wondering....... there has been a fair ammount of discussion on the subject of hoarding etc here recently.

If a collector contacted the BBC and specified that they would give a print back if all of the profits were donated to charity, say, a dementia or cancer charity, would the BBC agree to this?

This way, someone who hated the BBC could return prints to the world without the BBC making a single penny out of it.

Would the BBC agree to this sort of deal I wonder? I have a feeling they might well. Does anyone here know enough about BBC policy to comment?

[Steven Sigel]

I can't speak for the BBC, but I think you can be pretty sure that no organization would ever agree to terms like that. It would set a very bad precedent.

[JOHN SMITH]

To be honest, if someone hated the beeb, I doubt they would give the beeb the satisfaction of knowing that an episode was still out there in the first place, never mind returning it.

However what I have wonderered recently is if B/W episodes/stories would still be as much loved today if it wasn't for the fact that so many are incomplete.

If we were all honest and there were no missing eps I think we would say that this B/W story was rubbish or that one was rubbish etc. But the fact that so many are missing means that we don't 'pull to pieces' the ones that are complete, but are rubbish anyway (Planet Of Giants for example), because we are just glad that there are still some of them left to watch.

[William Martin]

some collector types and I mean collectors of anything can be very possessive as far as they're concerned, it (film, painting, sculpture, book etc) is theirs and theirs alone no one else in the world can be allowed to own or even see it, if an episode has fallen into the hands of such a person(although I admit it is very unlikely) then it is as good as lost. efforts should therefore be concentrated on the resonable types as in the top post.

[Greg H]

Jul 21, 2008 15:25:32 GMT JOHN SMITH said:

To be honest, if someone hated the beeb, I doubt they would give the beeb the satisfaction of knowing that an episode was still out there in the first place, never mind returning it.

However what I have wonderered recently is if B/W episodes/stories would still be as much loved today if it wasn't for the fact that so many are incomplete.

If we were all honest and there were no missing eps I think we would say that this B/W story was rubbish or that one was rubbish etc. But the fact that so many are missing means that we don't 'pull to pieces' the ones that are complete, but are rubbish anyway (Planet Of Giants for example), because we are just glad that there are still some of them left to watch.

I actually like planet of the giants!
Even the gunfighters has its following though as inexplicable as that is to me. I dont like all 60s who though, I think a few Hartnells are rather dull; there isnt a bad Troughton as far as im concerned though.

[B Thomas]

Jul 21, 2008 18:43:26 GMT Greg H said:

I actually like planet of the giants!
Even the gunfighters has its following though as inexplicable as that is to me. I dont like all 60s who though, I think a few Hartnells are rather dull; there isnt a bad Troughton as far as im concerned though.

Ahem... I'd gladly swap both "The Dominators" and "The Krotons" for "The Myth Makers" and "The Smugglers"...

I quite like "The Gunfighters" (and possibly prefer it to "The War Machines"). It doesn't mean much - only that one person's rubbish is another's treasure...

[Greg H]

Quite so Bevan. It always needles me when people claim that something is definitively the best ever episode and so forth.
I actually rate the krotons as a personal favorite and I sincerely believe that the dominators gets a bad rap. Clunky, cheesey and predictable it is, but still fun! These two are probably nowhere near as good as Troughtons from the previous season, but we'll probably never know with most of them.
But, gunfighters over the war machines? Im not drunk enough to challenge you to a duel With you on the smugglers, an underated classic.

[B Thomas]

Yeah... "The Smugglers" and "The Highlanders" have always been among my favourites. In fact, I've always had a soft spot for a number of serials that others seem to revile: yes, even "The Space Pirates"...

Another one that I've always considered worth a bit more attention than it gets is "The Savages"...

[Alex Dering]

Jul 21, 2008 15:18:01 GMT Steven Sigel said:

I can't speak for the BBC, but I think you can be pretty sure that no organization would ever agree to terms like that. It would set a very bad precedent.

I can't speak for what charities will and won't do, but the original post is, in sentiment, similar to the point I raised a while back:

1. The BBC cannot "knuckle under" to paying for episode returns because then it'll just be like illegalizing drugs (12 cents of a weed now costs $200 in a baggie on a street corner): each sale will be higher than the one before. Imagine if 107 of the 108 episodes return and then the BBC gets told "I've got the last one. What's it worth to get the whole set? I want a knighthood. And I want the Queen to dance the Charleston on top of a flagpole. And unlimited rice pudding..."

2. There probably are surviving episodes in private hands (does anyone, actually, have an update on that?) and those people aren't parting with them. At least not for things like a "life-size Dalek." (Not that such a thing isn't a great prize.) So how to get collectors with one-of-a-kind items to return them?

3. Obviously, it has to be non-monetary. Charity is a good suggestion actually. Perhaps the BBC could arrange a "Meet the Star of Your Choice" type thing. You've got a missing episode of DMP? You want to meet Graham Norton? Okay, sure. We'll put together something really nice, not just a meet and greet. Want to meet the Queen? Well, she IS a Doctor Who fan, we'll see what we can do. What's that? You want to punch Tony Blair right in his fat gob, the git? Get in line, mate. How about this. Instead of punching Blair's lights out, we'll put together a few BBC cameramen, Davies can write a little script, and you can use the Doctor Who sets to make your own video Christmas card. You're friends will go home and die from envy.

[JOHN SMITH]

Unfortunately I cannot say what is and what was not a classic episode because I wasn't even thought of when Dr Who began showing.
Grew up with Tom Baker as the Doctor. And as good as all the other actors were, or were not, nobody else will EVER be THAT good.
As far as classic stories go, my fave would be the entire Key To Time season, which incidentally was the first season I ever watched on TV when I was 8 years old.
The surviving Hartnell's in retrospect don't seem all that bad, neither do the Troughton's though it is a shame that most people will never get to see him (as he is probably the most underrated Doctor). Worst dated stories IMO belong to Pertwee, and without wanting to make a deliberate pun, many of his stories do in retrospect seem a bit twee ;-)

[Steven Sigel]

Jul 22, 2008 15:15:46 GMT Alex Dering said:

Jul 21, 2008 15:18:01 GMT Steven Sigel said:

I can't speak for the BBC, but I think you can be pretty sure that no organization would ever agree to terms like that. It would set a very bad precedent.

I can't speak for what charities will and won't do, but the original post is, in sentiment, similar to the point I raised a while back:


2. There probably are surviving episodes in private hands (does anyone, actually, have an update on that?) and those people aren't parting with them. At least not for things like a "life-size Dalek." (Not that such a thing isn't a great prize.) So how to get collectors with one-of-a-kind items to return them?

I seriously doubt there there are any missing episodes in private hands for reasons that we've been over on these boards many times.

If there are any, then the owners don't know that they're missing... The chances of someone knowingly having an episode that they're keeping a complete secret are miniscule.

[Alex Dering]

Jul 22, 2008 17:00:34 GMT Steven Sigel said:

If there are any, then the owners don't know that they're missing... The chances of someone knowingly having an episode that they're keeping a complete secret are miniscule.

Thanks. That's what I meant, but didn't say properly. There's no way someone could be that secretive as to be able to hold out on having an episode and not brag about it for all these years. But there's always the chance someone has something on a shelf and will one day stand there and in dumbfound amazement whisper to themselves, "Holy Crap! Part IV, The Tenth Planet!? I bought this three years ago. Omigod. The BBC's gonna plotz."

[JOHN SMITH]

Jul 22, 2008 17:00:34 GMT Steven Sigel said:

Jul 22, 2008 15:15:46 GMT Alex Dering said:

I can't speak for what charities will and won't do, but the original post is, in sentiment, similar to the point I raised a while back:


2. There probably are surviving episodes in private hands (does anyone, actually, have an update on that?) and those people aren't parting with them. At least not for things like a "life-size Dalek." (Not that such a thing isn't a great prize.) So how to get collectors with one-of-a-kind items to return them?

I seriously doubt there there are any missing episodes in private hands for reasons that we've been over on these boards many times.

If there are any, then the owners don't know that they're missing... The chances of someone knowingly having an episode that they're keeping a complete secret are miniscule.

Oh, then Francis Watson never knew DMP2 was 'missing' (which I do find unlikely). And it would also seem he never bragged about having it. And it did take him all of 30 years to give it back.
All of which seem like the actions of a hoarder to me.

There's still hope yet.

[Daniel O'Brien]

Jul 23, 2008 5:14:49 GMT JOHN SMITH said:

Oh, then Francis Watson never knew DMP2 was 'missing' (which I do find unlikely). And it would also seem he never bragged about having it. And it did take him all of 30 years to give it back.All of which seem like the actions of a hoarder to me.

There's still hope yet.

Unlikely or not, I don't think Watson knew 'DMP' 2 was missing until shortly before he returned it. Not everyone has a TV 'lost list' committed to memory. In this instance, 'hoarder' seems an inaccurate - and unfair - term.

[Greg H]

Jul 22, 2008 18:35:35 GMT Alex Dering said:

Jul 22, 2008 17:00:34 GMT Steven Sigel said:

If there are any, then the owners don't know that they're missing... The chances of someone knowingly having an episode that they're keeping a complete secret are miniscule.

Thanks. That's what I meant, but didn't say properly. There's no way someone could be that secretive as to be able to hold out on having an episode and not brag about it for all these years. But there's always the chance someone has something on a shelf and will one day stand there and in dumbfound amazement whisper to themselves, "Holy Crap! Part IV, The Tenth Planet!? I bought this three years ago. Omigod. The BBC's gonna plotz."

I think its entirely possible for people to keep quiet about something they know is missing. It has happened before after all!