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Post by al on Jul 5, 2008 9:44:45 GMT
Apologies if this post goes against the general pleasantries and spirit of this forum and its users but I have a simple question.
If someone found a missing episode, why should they tell anyone about it other than their friends and family?
A friend of mine reckoned he had a missing Dr Who Episode and he mentioned this to another friend and within a couple of days there was a chap phoning him up with all manner of questions. He was told that if he did have a missing episode, it was the property of the BBC and should be returned to them immediately as the BBC were not only the rightful owners but were expert in making sure any material was properly looked after.
To cut a long story short, my friend terminated the intrusive conversation and told the caller he would rather not speak to him again. The caller was not from the BBC or anything, just a very enthusiastic Dr Who fan.
So, why should my friend disclose to anyone what he might have?
He was already being treated as some sort of criminal and it was clear that there would be no reward, not that he is looking for a reward but he certainly can't see the sense in having what he believes is his rightful property taken off him with perhaps a "thanks mate" and never to be heard of again.
Better to keep the episode to himself I would say.
Your comments, no matter how disparaging, would be appreciated.
Al
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Post by John Fleming on Jul 5, 2008 9:59:27 GMT
*If* your mate has a found episode and lends it to the BBC then they will return it. If he doesn't want to deal with the BBC then contact Kaleidoscope who have the equipment and expertise to do a professional transfer and will also return it. On the other hand of course maybe he doesn't want to contact anybody because he doesn't actually have a missing episode.
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Post by al on Jul 5, 2008 10:07:25 GMT
Can I just say at this stage that I fully appreciate any doubt there may be, it seems entirely pointless to go through a 'is it true - is it not true' cat and mouse game here.
The question put then, is entirely hypothetical.
So why have something that is clearly unique, only to give it to someone to make a copy. It seems absolutely pointless.
"Come and see my missing episode of Dr Who"
"Well yeah, maybe, but I think we saw that one last week on the tele"
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Post by John Fleming on Jul 5, 2008 10:31:08 GMT
OK *if* he has a missing episode and is after what he can get out of it then he should contact Ian Levine who I believe is offering a not-to-be-sniffed-at cash sum. Ian will return the episode to the BBC. Refusing this offer is outright selfishness.
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Post by Rich Cornock on Jul 5, 2008 11:23:18 GMT
i hope this isnt going to be one of those wild goose chase threads.......'my friend and his tape'
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Post by al on Jul 5, 2008 11:51:46 GMT
As I said, that wasn't the purpose of the thread.
The question is quite simple though - why declare a found episode?
OK, someone somewhere (eg Ian Levine - I now know who he is and what he is about - thanks) might be willing to offer a cash sum. Maybe that is enough.
But why would anyone offer a found episode? Kudos in the Dr Who fan community? Perhaps if you are a big fan that might be enough - who knows.
It is not as if someone is being deprived of anything they owned like finding a missing wallet or watch something.
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Post by Andrew Martin on Jul 5, 2008 13:20:28 GMT
Simple reason for returning any BBC programme to the BBC - then researchers will be able to use it for research; it might be used for repeat as a whole or as clips, especially if it contains performers for whom not much exists; it will quite possibly get a showing to a smaller but appreciative audience such as a the BFI's "Missing Believed Wiped" events. In the case of a "Dr Who" episode it will definitely end up being issued on DVD and so everyone who likes "Dr Who" will get to see it... Against that is someone's hurt feelings because an over-enthusiastic fan phoned them up and had a go at them - not behaviour I would condone, I'm sure no-one would, but hey, some people get carried away, and it's not as if they're evil, is it... If someone thinks they have a missing episode of anything made by the BBC, it's not difficult to (a) find out if it is missing (this forum is one method) and (b) return it to the BBC, who will happily make a copy, and return the original and a DVD copy to the donor, no questions asked...
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Post by Daniel Myers on Jul 5, 2008 16:01:15 GMT
The reasons one might want to return a missing piece of film or TV history is the following:
1) To share the otherwise "lost" footage with fellow fans and TV historians. 2) To help preserve the work of the actors, writers and others who were involved with the lost program. 3) To make the item available for the enjoyment of future generations. 4) To preserve the program before the original media deteriorates beyond salvation. 5) To receive public acknowledgement and credit for the person who had the forethought and decency to save, return and thereby share the work. 6) To enjoy the satisfaction of knowing that you PERSONALLY played a very significant role in the preservation of a beloved program.. or a piece of entertainment history.
These are all mostly altruistic reasons. But I would hope that for most people, that would be sufficient.
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Post by al on Jul 5, 2008 17:47:58 GMT
Thank you. Your replies are greatly appreciated.
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Post by robb on Jul 5, 2008 20:01:27 GMT
this goes regarding any lost show
also it is selfish not to "return" a copy, as to hold onto something which holds such historical merit and then the person (who holds a lost print of something) in effect dies, then that copy is in a great danger of being permanently lost, which is a crying shame.
Now if a show is returned (either BBC / BFI or Kaleidoscope) these people are in the position of restoring the print, cleaning it up and even bringing it back for countless generations in the future to enjoy maybe as a DVD (as you or your friend has also)
I for one have also played a great part in finding lost shows and fragments of and have also returned lots to the BBC, and although i didnt have or want any financial gain, what i did get out of it was the satisfaction and pride that I had returned something that could have been lost had I not done that and that by chance it was was used on future documentary programme.
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Post by JOHN SMITH on Jul 5, 2008 20:35:07 GMT
Personally, the one thing that I have against the whole BBC 'lost episode' saga. Is that the BBC seem to see it as their god given right to obtain any previously classified as 'missing' material, for absolutely NOTHING. As far as ANY form of reality goes, the BBC in effect relinquished their copyright/ownership of any 'missing' material when they decided to throw it out in skips or simply incinerate it in the first place. Finders/keepers ring a bell ? I also hardly think that 'personally taking' something that you were given instructions to incinerate or dispose of in some other way, classifies as 'stealing'. I mean, how can you steal something that wasn't wanted in the first place. Given that the BBC generate huge amounts of profit (in the millions) from any 'found' episode of Who that they acquire by way of DVD/video sales around the world. I can see quite why collectors (or others) who DO have 'missing' Who episodes don't bother letting the BBC anywhere near what they have got. Because by letting the BBC make a 'copy' which is then rushed out on DVD/Video it in effect renders their own print which in reality was probably the last one in existence, virtually worthless, while the BBC ends up with millions in the bank.
To start off with, it is fairly well documented that DMP Ep 4 and Invasion Ep 1 are both in existence. And I don't think a gimmick of offering a life sized dalek is going to give any incentive whatsoever to their respective holders to give their copies up. If, especially for Doctor Who episodes, the BBC suddenly said ok, ok, we made a huge mistake and we will pay a million dollars for each 'missing' episode that is returned to us. I think even they would be surprised at the amount of Who stuff that would come flooding back in. If this was America, I'm sure their stations would have already 'paid back for' extremely profitable material which was previously thrown out and then classified as 'missing'. But sadly, for Doctor Who fans, this is not America, and therefore the still missing episodes (even those missing ones which are known to exist) are, and probably always be classified as 'missing'.
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Post by al on Jul 6, 2008 8:44:38 GMT
Hmmm, the above post pretty well sums up my thoughts, but there again so does the post above that from robb and most of the other posts too. So a bit of a quandary.
Can I take the hypothesis a stage further.
Someone has a lost episode and takes it to a foreign country where it is shown in a cinema. The showing attracts many people and the cinema fills out for a week or two, maybe more, as well as providing income for the local hotels.
Immoral? Illegal? Providing enjoyment for hundreds (thousands?) of fans? Economically stimulates an area and puts it on the map?
Surely better than giving the episode free gratis to the BBC who would then be able to make a few more £million* to pay the likes of Jonathan Ross and Graham Norton.
*Edited to add, in light of the following post that "a few more £million" should be read as "a lot of money".
The point being who would you rather fund?
"Auntie Beeb" is no longer the friendly British Institution we all used to love and, more importantly, respect. See above re: the multi millionaires Ross and Norton but the list is actually quite endless.
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Post by Daniel O'Brien on Jul 6, 2008 9:12:28 GMT
To start off with, it is fairly well documented that DMP Ep 4 and Invasion Ep 1 are both in existence. Really? All I've heard are rumours and speculation. As for the BBC making millions from recovered episodes, I just don't think that happens. The market for 1960s episodes supports continued DVD releases but it's a niche market all the same.
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Post by JOHN SMITH on Jul 6, 2008 9:26:03 GMT
To start off with, it is fairly well documented that DMP Ep 4 and Invasion Ep 1 are both in existence. Really? All I've heard are rumours and speculation. As for the BBC making millions from recovered episodes, I just don't think that happens. The market for 1960s episodes supports continued DVD releases but it's a niche market all the same. As for DMP4, it seems more than just a 'rumour' that the episode went walkabout, especially since it was repeatedly asked back for in memos. Part 1 of the 8 part cyberman story is documented as being watched by a reliable source (as far as I can remember) in the Paul Lee article. As fro profitable. When Tomb was released on video, sales were well above 100000 in just a short time, that is a lot of sales, and a lot of profit. If a full story suddenly came back today, subsequent hype, sales and profit would be enormous even in a day of p2p programs etc.
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Post by Daniel O'Brien on Jul 6, 2008 10:23:42 GMT
As for DMP4, it seems more than just a 'rumour' that the episode went walkabout, especially since it was repeatedly asked back for in memos. Part 1 of the 8 part cyberman story is documented as being watched by a reliable source (as far as I can remember) in the Paul Lee article. A film recording of 'DMP' 4 went missing within the BBC 35 years ago. That doesn't mean it still exists. As for 'Invasion' 1, it depends what you mean by a reliable source. The episode may still exist - I hope so - but that doesn't seem to be the majority view.
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