|
Post by stevegerald on Feb 19, 2021 14:10:47 GMT
"reverse standards conversion" is that the one where they take a colour signal from a domestic videotaping of the broadcast episode? Nope, that's the one where they convert those NTSC tapes that were used by stations in Canada to PAL.
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Feb 19, 2021 16:04:36 GMT
"reverse standards conversion" is that the one where they take a colour signal from a domestic videotaping of the broadcast episode? Here's a question I've wondered about. Is there any noticeable difference in quality between Chroma dot, manual colourization, and taking the colour signal from a videotape? If we were to find a videotape of a manual colourized episode, could we make a better version? The first and last are guaranteed to be accurate.
|
|
|
Post by simonashby on Feb 19, 2021 20:12:32 GMT
Here's a question I've wondered about. Is there any noticeable difference in quality between Chroma dot, manual colourization, and taking the colour signal from a videotape? If we were to find a videotape of a manual colourized episode, could we make a better version? Yes, all vary by some margin. The quality of chroma dots on film prints will vary from print to print - some great and full of colour, others really quite weak and patchy. NTSC conversions will on the whole be the most stable colour source. Both are generally accurate but in their variable nature may throw out inaccuracies to varying degrees. Manual colourisation - well, it depends on who does it! In short, the answer is very much yes. If you find the original videotape then that alone would be the definitive version. The colourised version becomes nothing more but a curiosity. The first and last are guaranteed to be accurate. Well that's not quite true though? Depends on what you mean by 'accurate'. Both sources can vary by some margin. The NTSC tapes tend to have a bit of a yellow hue to them compared to PAL equivalents. Chromadots are only a representation of the original colour. Certainly, you'll likely have a 99% accurate colour source when it comes to something being the correct general colour - i.e. a blue object being blue (unless the print is a poor source such as IOD Episode 1!). The exact hue in the restored master might still be noticeably different if compared to the original.
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Feb 19, 2021 21:22:40 GMT
If you’re getting things from sources linked to the original you’re pretty much onto a winner.
|
|
|
Post by Pete Morris on Feb 19, 2021 21:40:45 GMT
If we were to find a videotape of a manual colourized episode, could we make a better version? If you find the original videotape then that alone would be the definitive version. You misunderstand. Some of the Pertwee colourizations were possible because they found domestic videotape recorded from a broadcast in America. They took the colour signal from the tape, and combined it with the high quality monochrome version that existed, to produce a high quality colour version.
So, some episodes have had colour restored by chroma dots. If they found a domestic video recording of any of these episodes, could they make a better colour version?
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Feb 19, 2021 22:06:51 GMT
If you find the original videotape then that alone would be the definitive version. You misunderstand. Some of the Pertwee colourizations were possible because they found domestic videotape recorded from a broadcast in America. They took the colour signal from the tape, and combined it with the high quality monochrome version that existed, to produce a high quality colour version.
So, some episodes have had colour restored by chroma dots. If they found a domestic video recording of any of these episodes, could they make a better colour version?
I wouldn’t put money on it. The chroma dots contain the original colour information as does the US version. Read up about RSC and that’s extremely sophisticated. The PAL to NTSC converter was mathematically modelled so that the inverse could be implemented in software. With the post conversion clean up and DNR the result is often superb.
|
|
RWels
Member
Posts: 2,863
|
Post by RWels on Feb 19, 2021 22:22:43 GMT
Sometimes they would. Anything affecting the film (damage, lack of quality) affects the dots.
Wasn't there one episode for which, for example, the red signal wasn't legible? They used the third option, recolourisation (ergo, not based on any original signal/info/data). Or, I believe, combinations of these.
So I assume that the Restoration Team would still take a look at off air tapes in colour.
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Feb 19, 2021 22:43:48 GMT
They’d look at virtually anything AFAiK. If a domestic colour VHS, Betamax or V2000 recording of IotD1 turned up......
Just look at their record.
The impossible can be done given time, miracles take a little longer!
Well, imnsvho, they’ve delivered miracle after miracle after....
|
|
|
Post by A Barron on Feb 19, 2021 22:53:40 GMT
Sometimes they would. Anything affecting the film (damage, lack of quality) affects the dots. Wasn't there one episode for which, for example, the red signal wasn't legible? They used the third option, recolourisation (ergo, not based on any original signal/info/data). Or, I believe, combinations of these. So I assume that the Restoration Team would still take a look at off air tapes in colour. I think you may be thinking of Episode One of Invasion of The Dinosaurs, which had no recoverable blue signal, only red and green.
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Feb 19, 2021 23:08:55 GMT
Sometimes they would. Anything affecting the film (damage, lack of quality) affects the dots. Wasn't there one episode for which, for example, the red signal wasn't legible? They used the third option, recolourisation (ergo, not based on any original signal/info/data). Or, I believe, combinations of these. So I assume that the Restoration Team would still take a look at off air tapes in colour. I think you may be thinking of Episode One of Invasion of The Dinosaurs, which had no recoverable blue signal, only red and green. Definitely not a blue movie 😂 John —->🕳
|
|
|
Post by bevanthomas on Feb 19, 2021 23:20:51 GMT
Invasion of the Dinosaurs: 1 could do with a bit more work (especially with the blues) but, apart from that one, it's pretty good. I didn't get to see all of Pertwee during our initial broadcasts of his era (1975 - 1977) anyway, so what we have is pretty much as good as I'm expecting to see. Yeah, the Pert is partwork but pretty good. Without the hard work of archivists such as Sue Malden and episode hunters such as Ian Levine it could weel have a been a case of 'baby Jon Pertwee...Jon Pertwee...no more...' Sorry,I've dying to post that for years. Sorry, I don't even know what that means...
|
|
|
Post by Jaspal Cheema on Feb 20, 2021 6:57:51 GMT
Without the hard work of archivists such as Sue Malden and episode hunters such as Ian Levine it could weel have a been a case of 'baby Jon Pertwee...Jon Pertwee...no more...' Sorry,I've dying to post that for years. Sorry, I don't even know what that means... Lyrics from the song What is Love? by Haddaway!
|
|
|
Post by bevanthomas on Feb 20, 2021 9:31:33 GMT
Sorry, I don't even know what that means... Lyrics from the song What is Love? by Haddaway! Ah, right you are. I vaguely remember it coming out when I was still serving...
|
|
RWels
Member
Posts: 2,863
|
Post by RWels on Feb 20, 2021 9:33:39 GMT
Sorry, I don't even know what that means... Lyrics from the song What is Love? by Haddaway! You have to know it before you hear it but yes I see what you mean. On the other hand, I keep thinking the background choir in Adele's "When we were young" are singing "exterminate... exterminate...".
|
|
|
Post by brianfretwell on Feb 20, 2021 10:30:57 GMT
I would have thought that chroma dots should give a better colour rendition as NTSC has one colour sub carrier signal (I can't remember from my reading about it in the 1960's if it is the u or the v signal) restricted to 0.5 Mhz where as PAL has them both at 1.5Mhz. I suspect that is one of the reasons, together with the PAL phase shift on alternate lines, that color recovery doesn't work on NTSC Kinescopes.
|
|