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Post by Robert Lia on Apr 25, 2018 21:37:59 GMT
If we were to destroy all of Mc Coys first season to get back a single missing 60's episode the episodes that were destroyed would suddenly get reevaluated and as classics.
Still I find things to enjoy about his first series (even though I was not thrilled about it in 1987). There is a lot wrong with it for sure but wiping one episode in exchange for recovering another is not the answer
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Post by tom rogers on Apr 26, 2018 0:30:50 GMT
Aw, c'mon folks. Let's give Sylvester a break. I wouldn't trade anything we have from classic Who for anything we have lost (nuwho can be traded/swapped/annihliated freely). I am too greedy for that - I want them all Like Robert, I do find things to enjoy scattered throughout McCoy's run, and also lots to avoid. The problem for me is that the good things are (mostly) dispersed randomly throughout his run, and seldom do they all show up in the same adventure or episode. His second season appeals to me more than his first. Cheese they may be, but I have always had a soft spot for Remembrance of the Daleks and Silver Nemesis
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Post by Ken Jacowitz on Apr 26, 2018 0:37:50 GMT
"weeks before recovery"?
You mean if a single lost episode let alone a whole series turned up, something if for no other reason would generate tens of thousands of pounds in DVD sales turned up in Germany, the BBC would wait weeks instead of sending someone immediately on a plane? Round trip would take like a half day and not cost that much.
I'm called no on this rumor.
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Post by zaqwilson on Apr 26, 2018 0:41:06 GMT
If we were to destroy all of Mc Coys first season to get back a single missing 60's episode the episodes that were destroyed would suddenly get reevaluated and as classics. Still I find things to enjoy about his first series (even though I was not thrilled about it in 1987). There is a lot wrong with it for sure but wiping one episode in exchange for recovering another is not the answer Curse of Fenric makes McCoy's run worth it, on top of these two as well. Trading that which exists for ME's? Fine deal, if we retain memories of traded items. Otherwise, wouldn't it invoke the same in reverse (i.e. too bad nothing from that elusive 7th doctor doesnt survive). No trades for me, I want it, I want it now, I want it ALL and I dont care how.
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Post by Mike Biggs on Apr 26, 2018 8:54:57 GMT
Sorry mate, I happen to like the space museum. Not exactly original or good quality, but it is a giggle rather than a cringe! If you had invoked the gunfighters you would have had me there............ So anyway, it is safe to consign (surprise, surprise) the current rumour regarding this to the towering pile of hokum that eerily floats around classic who, it is safe to say.............? Is everyone in agreement? Personal taste is a funny business, I quite like both of those serials. I found the first episode of the Space Museum to be quite entertaining. Although the following episodes weren't quite as good, I quite liked the story of the Moroks and the ineffectual Xerons. A good thing it's a four parter though, it would have been terrible if they'd tried stretching it out to six or more episodes. As for the Gunfighters, I'm a big western fan and enjoyed Doctor Who's take on it. Don't get me wrong, the song really isn't the best and appears far too often, but even that has grown on me over time. The accent's are often criticised, but for me they're not that bad and it's a common feature of a lot of British Television (the reverse is often true for US television). I thought the actors did a good job of portraying the characters and I love the Doctor's reaction to it all - particularly when everyone seems to be trying to give him a gun. As much I would love to see more of the missing episodes, I wouldn't trade any of the ones we currently have for them.
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Post by Mike Biggs on Apr 26, 2018 8:56:32 GMT
Well i'd like to up the ante....I'd burn all Colin Baker episodes too for another complete Hartnell/Troughton adventure. Then we'd all bemoan the loss of Troughton's last appearance in The Two Doctors
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Apr 26, 2018 13:04:27 GMT
Perhaps it's because I only watched them as an adult, but this whole suggestion that Doctor Who is somehow the best thing ever, or even a high quality product, seems totally ludicrous to me.
I have completed a few months ago the mammoth task of watching every existing episode and it's taken me years. That's because I desperately needed a break every so often.
My main objection is the writing of storylines and often the dialogue too. Settings are often obviously copied from a specific genre in a moment of "hey let's do a murder mystery-y story". There are huge sudden twists in direction and lack of consistency. No doubt, as some of you have done above, its weaknesses can be construed as strengths and clever send-ups. I look on that simply as proof of your love and dedication.
Strangely enough I found the final years not too bad, in part because it finally looked halfway decent. The actors, I don't mind. But the stock villains every time! Is there any villain who does not say "excellent" at least once in every episode? I don't care if I never see another cyberman in my entire life!
Now, Out of the Unknown, that's the stuff with plots written to make you think - well, I'm not sure what I think of its final series, but still. It's the UK Twilight Zone. In contrast, the DW stories - a time traveller for crying out loud (not that anyone could hear me in space) - are slavishly chronological and continuous (with practically no exception). (Original) Star Trek - that at least had a genuine vision of the future behind it. So yeah, I'd trade ALL of Tomb of the Cyberman for any missing OOTU episode. Hahaha, better be nice to me, or I swear I'll do it!
Note. Don't be offended. I have the same opinion on James Bond. It's all one big trope-fest. That doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed; only I prefer to call a sonic spade a sonic spade. But what surprises me is that one could seriously consider one era better or worse than the other. As if the Pertwee stories were any better than the McCoy ones - they all look equally silly and contrived to me! (Most unreal moment for me was Black Orchid, when Davison suggests he couldn't have committed a murder because he barely knew the victim and so he couldn't possibly have a motive. Hahaha, since when did that ever matter? )
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Post by Richard Tipple on Apr 26, 2018 13:41:34 GMT
Perhaps it's because I only watched them as an adult, but this whole suggestion that Doctor Who is somehow the best thing ever, or even a high quality product, seems totally ludicrous to me. I have completed a few months ago the mammoth task of watching every existing episode and it's taken me years. That's because I desperately needed a break every so often. My main objection is the writing of storylines and often the dialogue too. Settings are often obviously copied from a specific genre in a moment of "hey let's do a murder mystery-y story". There are huge sudden twists in direction and lack of consistency. No doubt, as some of you have done above, its weaknesses can be construed as strengths and clever send-ups. I look on that simply as proof of your love and dedication. Strangely enough I found the final years not too bad, in part because it finally looked halfway decent. The actors, I don't mind. But the stock villains every time! Is there any villain who does not say "excellent" at least once in every episode? I don't care if I never see another cyberman in my entire life! Now, Out of the Unknown, that's the stuff with plots written to make you think - well, I'm not sure what I think of its final series, but still. It's the UK Twilight Zone. In contrast, the DW stories - a time traveller for crying out loud (not that anyone could hear me in space) - are slavishly chronological and continuous (with practically no exception). (Original) Star Trek - that at least had a genuine vision of the future behind it. So yeah, I'd trade ALL of Tomb of the Cyberman for any missing OOTU episode. Hahaha, better be nice to me, or I swear I'll do it!Note. Don't be offended. I have the same opinion on James Bond. It's all one big trope-fest. That doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed; only I prefer to call a sonic spade a sonic spade. But what surprises me is that one could seriously consider one era better or worse than the other. As if the Pertwee stories were any better than the McCoy ones - they all look equally silly and contrived to me! (Most unreal moment for me was Black Orchid, when Davison suggests he couldn't have committed a murder because he barely knew the victim and so he couldn't possibly have a motive. Hahaha, since when did that ever matter? ) Opinions. You prefer OOTU, I prefer Doctor Who. It's subjective and ultimately trivial. What is truly bizarre is that you spent years of your life watching something you don't like, presumably so you could come to a forum like this - full of people who do like it - and tell us it's rubbish. Now what's more strange: Rewatching a TV programme you love, or spending years of your life rewatching a TV programme you dislike, just to make a point? Your original premise that we all think "Doctor Who is somehow the best thing ever, or even a high quality product" is also absurd. It's dodgy scripts, wobbly sets, and bad acting have been well discussed by fan and causal viewer alike. For the vast majority of us it's nostalgia. Like hearing a song that reminds you of your university days, or a smell of food that takes you down memory lane. A city you used to live in or the house you grew up in. Nostalgia makes you feel good because it's your connection to pleasant memories. That's what Doctor Who is to many on here. Nobody is claiming it to be Citizen Kane or a work of art akin to a Renaissance masterpiece, but we enjoy it - and where's the harm in that?
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Apr 26, 2018 14:00:06 GMT
Opinions. You prefer OOTU, I prefer Doctor Who. It's subjective and ultimately trivial. What is truly bizarre is that you spent years of your life watching something you don't like, presumably so you could come to a forum like this - full of people who do like it - and tell us it's rubbish. Now what's more strange: Rewatching a TV programme you love, or spending years of your life rewatching a TV programme you dislike, just to make a point? Your original premise that we all think "Doctor Who is somehow the best thing ever, or even a high quality product" is also absurd. It's dodgy scripts, wobbly sets, and bad acting have been well discussed by fan and causal viewer alike. For the vast majority of us it's nostalgia. Like hearing a song that reminds you of your university days, or a smell of food that takes you down memory lane. A city you used to live in or the house you grew up in. Nostalgia makes you feel good because it's your connection to pleasant memories. That's what Doctor Who is to many on here. Nobody is claiming it to be Citizen Kane or a work of art akin to a Renaissance masterpiece, but we enjoy it - and where's the harm in that? Oh, are you trying not to sound offended by any chance? Did I say I didn't like it? Or could I say that, if I had never watched it? No. All I want is a touch of realism about the whole thing - whether it's in which era is "better", or how many episodes are supposedly recovered and will 'soon' be announced. You've basically just admitted my whole point anyway.
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Post by Robbie Moubert on Apr 26, 2018 16:31:28 GMT
We seem to be wandering into territory that really belongs on this site's general Doctor Who board. And not just in this thread.
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Post by Richard Tipple on Apr 26, 2018 16:33:06 GMT
Did I say I didn't like it? Things you've said you dislike: - storylines
- dialogue
- settings
- huge sudden twists in direction
- lack of consistency
- the stock villains
Sounds like you love it! Or could I say that, if I had never watched it? No. It's entirely reasonable to watch a few episodes of something and decide it's not for you. Watching every episode in existence of one of the worlds longest running TV shows just to say you don't like it strikes me as.. and I'm being polite here - 'odd'. All I want is a touch of realism about the whole thing - whether it's in which era is "better", or how many episodes are supposedly recovered and will 'soon' be announced. You've basically just admitted my whole point anyway. You said, and this is a direct quote, "this whole suggestion that Doctor Who is somehow the best thing ever, or even a high quality product, seems totally ludicrous to me." I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who see Doctor Who this way. Most are aware of the constraints the show was made under but love the show anyway, mostly - but not exclusively - for reasons of nostalgia.
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Post by zaqwilson on Apr 26, 2018 16:40:27 GMT
Does it have to be a high quality product (highly debatable either way) for people to love it? Personally, the production values in the 1960's + the type and quality of acting are what put the B&W era on the top for me. Still wouldn't trade one for another. ....hummm, this thread has wandered a wee bit off topic..... How could this happen?!
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Apr 26, 2018 17:45:13 GMT
Do I have to pretend that the series is highly original? But I still didn't say I hate it. It's entirely reasonable to watch a few episodes of something and decide it's not for you. Watching every episode in existence of one of the worlds longest running TV shows just to say you don't like it strikes me as.. and I'm being polite here - 'odd'. No doubt people would say I'd watched the wrong ones. When it comes to that, it strikes me as odd that you'd see no difference (in quality) between OOTU and DW. I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who see Doctor Who this way. Most are aware of the constraints the show was made under but love the show anyway, mostly - but not exclusively - for reasons of nostalgia. I find the whole notion a bit strange of CDW fans bashing the (number)th doctor and wanting to trade the one era's episodes for the other. I think I wrote that above... Here, I'll give you a few examples: I would gladly BURN every episode of McCoy (Kandyman, icemen, caretakers, laughable rubber monsters, Cheetah women, Bonnie Langford's hideous Mel, the Blue Peter badge wearing middle class supposed punk Ace,etc) and ALL of noowho and merrily dance upon the cooled off burnt out pile gleefully kicking up clouds of McCoy and noowho Dr.Who ashes into the air.... .....if it meant a single Troughton or Hartnell Doctor Who complete missing sixties story could be returned intact for forthcoming DVD release...!!! not that I'm biased....but quality over piffle ! Well i'd like to up the ante....I'd burn all Colin Baker episodes too for another complete Hartnell/Troughton adventure. This just seems silly to me. "Quality over piffle?" I don't see one decade as fundamentally better or worse than another, because they're all of them halfway to Guilty Pleasure City as far as I'm concerned. You said yourself: It's subjective and ultimately trivial. It's dodgy scripts, wobbly sets, and bad acting have been well discussed by fan and causal viewer alike. For the vast majority of us it's nostalgia. Like hearing a song that reminds you of your university days, or a smell of food that takes you down memory lane. A city you used to live in or the house you grew up in. Nostalgia makes you feel good because it's your connection to pleasant memories. That's what Doctor Who is to many on here. Nobody is claiming it to be Citizen Kane or a work of art akin to a Renaissance masterpiece, but we enjoy it - and where's the harm in that? See, you DO understand. This is exactly why it surprises me that one doctor should be said to be better than another. I don't know why you're arguing with me if you've already realized all these things. By the way my whole post was in a lighter tone. Everyone is so deadly serious about it (cf. the time travel thread), can't even make a joke anymore . That's partly what set me off ranting. Personally I thought the following was a clue that I was venting a bit, and possibly not 100% serious: So yeah, I'd trade ALL of Tomb of the Cyberman for any missing OOTU episode. Hahaha, better be nice to me, or I swear I'll do it!
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Post by Charles Daniels on May 2, 2018 10:57:14 GMT
Does it have to be a high quality product (highly debatable either way) for people to love it? My all time favourite Dr Who story of the whole 55 years so far is The Keys of Marinus. So I guess my answer is going to have to be - "No."
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Post by lousingh on May 29, 2018 15:44:31 GMT
Does it have to be a high quality product (highly debatable either way) for people to love it? My all time favourite Dr Who story of the whole 55 years so far is The Keys of Marinus. So I guess my answer is going to have to be - "No." I can hear this. We all have different ideas of what we like, regardless of quality, and that colours our ideas of what we want, etc. Here's an inverse example. The one classic DW I can't watch without wanting to throw a brick at my TV is ... "The Talons of Weng-Chiang." My Mom is Chinese. I can't get through half an episode without all the racist crap that was flung at Yoko Ono from when she hooked up with John Lennon ringing in my ears -- those terms were used for my Mom too. Every time I see "Coolie" in the end titles, I want to drop a cinder block on the DVD player. No matter how much I love Lightfoot and Jago, parts of it are so bigoted that it feels like Bill Maher and Donald Trump were script editors instead of Robert Holmes. I personally hold it in such low esteem that I would trade those 6 episodes for 1 episode each of "Marco Polo," "The Myth Makers", "The Massacre," "The Savages," "The Smugglers," and "Fury from the Deep." Heck, I would consider trading them for "Mission to the Unknown" and the 5 missing episodes of "The Space Pirates."
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