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Post by Mike Biggs on Jan 8, 2014 21:42:17 GMT
Sorry, error in posting twice. |
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Post by Crawford.P on Jan 8, 2014 21:44:22 GMT
It's absolute rubbish to suggest that whole stories were junked at the same time everytime. Yes, some clearly were as Ian Levine mentioned saving all 7 positives and all 7 negatives of The Daleks from destruction which were all bundled up ready for destruction. But if it were always true we'd have, for example, all 4 episodes of The Moonbase in the archives rather than just episodes 2 & 4. The Ice Warriors 1, 4-6 wouldn't have ended up behind a filing cabinet, they'd have been safely destroyed with 2 & 3. As was mentioned when Airlock and UWM2 turned up, these things tend to be found in pairs - 1 in each hand, taken by chancers. It wasn't systematic because, a) very few people had equipment to watch them on and had no foresight (like the beeb) to think they might be watchable at some indeterminate point in the future, and b) there was no pre-planning involved. If it was happening today, half this board would don their balaclavas and borrow their mate's white van for a midnight sortee. This clearly didn't happen, because NO ONE saw any monetary value in them. I do think there are more out there sitting in private collections. But I'm afraid no one's going to produce all 7 Marco Polos or 6 Furys from these collections. Maybe one or two episodes of each. That said, you only have to look at the recent case of that German art collector who was sat on a pile of paintings stolen by the Nazis to see that people DO hoard stuff they know are worth something. There may well be someone out there sat on a stash of lost Whos, but it will be amongst other rare and lost TV and film stuff. You won't find someone with all 12 episodes of Daleks Masterplan any more than you'll find someone who has 12 lost Rembrandts. I wonder if an employee at enterprises really liked the Ice Warriors so lifted episodes 2 & 3 as they were all he could take but shoved the episodes 1,,4,5 & 6 to the back of that cabinet in order to save them from being junked. |
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Post by Mike Biggs on Jan 8, 2014 21:47:11 GMT
I do think there are more out there sitting in private collections. But I'm afraid no one's going to produce all 7 Marco Polos or 6 Furys from these collections. Maybe one or two episodes of each. That said, you only have to look at the recent case of that German art collector who was sat on a pile of paintings stolen by the Nazis to see that people DO hoard stuff they know are worth something. There may well be someone out there sat on a stash of lost Whos, but it will be amongst other rare and lost TV and film stuff. You won't find someone with all 12 episodes of Daleks Masterplan any more than you'll find someone who has 12 lost Rembrandts. Right, before that little hiccup, I was going to say that this is well illustrated in all the discoveries to date. The only complete stories have come from tv stations. While it's not impossible (it's hard to prove a negative), I think it's unreasonable to think a collector will have a full story. Well, expect for Mission to the Unknown, but only because that is one episode long. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 21:47:52 GMT
Of course it would be perfect irony if a time travelling fan took all the episodes and caused them to go missing in the first place. A bit of a wibbly wobbly timey wimey moment as they say.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 8, 2014 21:57:11 GMT
I do think there are more out there sitting in private collections. But I'm afraid no one's going to produce all 7 Marco Polos or 6 Furys from these collections. Maybe one or two episodes of each. That said, you only have to look at the recent case of that German art collector who was sat on a pile of paintings stolen by the Nazis to see that people DO hoard stuff they know are worth something. There may well be someone out there sat on a stash of lost Whos, but it will be amongst other rare and lost TV and film stuff. You won't find someone with all 12 episodes of Daleks Masterplan any more than you'll find someone who has 12 lost Rembrandts. Right, before that little hiccup, I was going to say that this is well illustrated in all the discoveries to date. The only complete stories have come from tv stations. While it's not impossible (it's hard to prove a negative), I think it's unreasonable to think a collector will have a full story. Well, expect for Mission to the Unknown, but only because that is one episode long. That's what I deduced - only odd episodes have come back from collectors. A collector might have Edge of Destruction or the Rescue........ |
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Post by John Green on Jan 8, 2014 22:12:19 GMT
A year or two ago,someone posted a Youtube of himself watching a missing ITV show.Removed,by him presumably,within hours.A rare glimpse,in more ways than one...
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Post by andrewfrostick on Jan 8, 2014 22:13:31 GMT
Does anyone know if Terry Nation ever took preview Dalek prints to show to TV companies in the States when he was looking to create a new show over there ? Surely he would have needed more than a few photos, a BBC reputation and some scripts to get them to commission a series?
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Post by John Wall on Jan 8, 2014 22:15:25 GMT
A year or two ago,someone posted a Youtube of himself watching a missing ITV show.Removed,by him presumably,within hours.A rare glimpse,in more ways than one... If it was Crossroads..... |
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Post by John Wall on Jan 8, 2014 22:16:47 GMT
Does anyone know if Terry Nation ever took preview Dalek prints to show to TV companies in the States when he was looking to create a new show over there ? Surely he would have needed more than a few photos, a BBC reputation and some scripts to get them to commission a series? I've seen this asked before and, TTBOMK, he didn't. There were, of course, the two cinema films. |
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Post by Marty Schultz on Jan 8, 2014 23:20:47 GMT
Does anyone know if Terry Nation ever took preview Dalek prints to show to TV companies in the States when he was looking to create a new show over there ? Surely he would have needed more than a few photos, a BBC reputation and some scripts to get them to commission a series? Didn't a recent DWM say yes he did? I THINK that the eps duped are not missing - invasion of earth and chase? |
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Post by edhipkiss on Jan 8, 2014 23:21:52 GMT
Does anyone know if Terry Nation ever took preview Dalek prints to show to TV companies in the States when he was looking to create a new show over there ? Surely he would have needed more than a few photos, a BBC reputation and some scripts to get them to commission a series? I've seen this asked before and, TTBOMK, he didn't. There were, of course, the two cinema films. It's an interesting question because IIRC, isn't that how those 2 missing episodes from series 2 of Dad's Army came to light? Spec copies that were shown around. But as you say John, there were 2 successful movies that could be used and it would be easier to get hold of prints of one or both rather than copies from a reluctant BBC. |
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Post by John Wall on Jan 8, 2014 23:29:48 GMT
The Dad's Army film was several years later - things/people change. The big problem is that the Daleks "work" best with the Doctor rather than on their own - despite various comic strips and annuals in the 60s.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 8, 2014 23:30:45 GMT
Does anyone know if Terry Nation ever took preview Dalek prints to show to TV companies in the States when he was looking to create a new show over there ? Surely he would have needed more than a few photos, a BBC reputation and some scripts to get them to commission a series? Didn't a recent DWM say yes he did? I THINK that the eps duped are not missing - invasion of earth and chase? Both those stories exist complete. |
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Post by Marty Schultz on Jan 8, 2014 23:55:54 GMT
Didn't a recent DWM say yes he did? I THINK that the eps duped are not missing - invasion of earth and chase? Both those stories exist complete. Yes. I know :-) Rather I am saying I "think" the eps are from the invasion of earth and the chase. Sorry for my confusing sentence. :-) If I get a bit of time - later on - I will check the article that I am thinking of. |
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Post by scotttelfer on Jan 9, 2014 0:18:22 GMT
It's absolute rubbish to suggest that whole stories were junked at the same time everytime. Yes, some clearly were as Ian Levine mentioned saving all 7 positives and all 7 negatives of The Daleks from destruction which were all bundled up ready for destruction. But if it were always true we'd have, for example, all 4 episodes of The Moonbase in the archives rather than just episodes 2 & 4. The Ice Warriors 1, 4-6 wouldn't have ended up behind a filing cabinet, they'd have been safely destroyed with 2 & 3. As was mentioned when Airlock and UWM2 turned up, these things tend to be found in pairs - 1 in each hand, taken by chancers. It wasn't systematic because, a) very few people had equipment to watch them on and had no foresight (like the beeb) to think they might be watchable at some indeterminate point in the future, and b) there was no pre-planning involved. If it was happening today, half this board would don their balaclavas and borrow their mate's white van for a midnight sortee. This clearly didn't happen, because NO ONE saw any monetary value in them. I do think there are more out there sitting in private collections. But I'm afraid no one's going to produce all 7 Marco Polos or 6 Furys from these collections. Maybe one or two episodes of each. That said, you only have to look at the recent case of that German art collector who was sat on a pile of paintings stolen by the Nazis to see that people DO hoard stuff they know are worth something. There may well be someone out there sat on a stash of lost Whos, but it will be amongst other rare and lost TV and film stuff. You won't find someone with all 12 episodes of Daleks Masterplan any more than you'll find someone who has 12 lost Rembrandts.
Actually the evidence is that they seemingly were. When Ian Levine went to them in 1978, everything they had was complete stories (or the rest of a complete story that the BBC already held in the archives). There were a few dozen random episodes in the archives already but what BBC Enterprises owned were effectively complete stories (of course they also had one episode of The Web of Fear and most of The Ice Warriors but these weren't in with the rest so went unnoticed for years) which is rather unusual if you think about it given the other recoveries we've had are fairly erratic so you'd expect what they held to have similar holes in it.
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