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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2013 10:20:33 GMT
Never heard of any of those never mind seen any of them. Never heard of ANY of them?!? Wow! Some of the crown jewels of TV in there - what stone have you been hiding under?  |
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Post by Greg H on Dec 23, 2013 10:26:46 GMT
Yep. Public Eye, Callan, Mystery & Imagination, Armchair Theatre, The Rat Catchers, The Informer, Haunted, Ready Steady Go, Crane, Freewheelers, Half Hour Story, No Hiding Place, Intrigue, Ace Of Wands, Out Of This World, Sexton Blake, Orlando etc. etc. All high on my list of most desired recoveries!  Never heard of any of those never mind seen any of them. However .............. People, fans, board moderators (on other sites as well as this), site owners, Dr Who production staff et al, need to imo seriously consider stepping outside for a healthy dose of fresh air. I've been around various boards over the past number of months, seen mods (even some here) talk to people as if the mod is Dame Slap from the Magic Faraway Tree and 'posters' are naughty schoolkids. Plus seen mods press their 'I win' button to ban people then brag about doing so to the rest of the forum as if they are expecting a high five or a prize. Such attitudes by such people leave them with absolutely no respect and make them look as if they still need another decade before their proverbials begin to drop. I can only presume you are talking about Laurence as you said in reply to his unrelated post. I don't really think that is the case here at all. If it was I would not have anything to do with the forum; there are several forums I can think of that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole due to idiot mods. This isn't one of those places. No, I am not arse kissing, just stating my opinion. What you say doesn't really apply here; we have had a few posters with zero social skills materialise recently though in fairness. Possibly the misguided notion that doctor who fans have a sense of humour about the universe and can take a joke? I am sure they will have learned their lesson by the amount of toys thrown from prams over it.... Can you imagine how easily doctor who fans would let it go if it was announced that web 3 was recovered but was completely lost to vinegar syndrome? Do you think they would ever stop stalking and harassing and crying conspiracy? If cards are being kept close to chests, I am sure it is with good reason. Well, remember this is doctor who fans we are talking about. I count myself as a life long fan but I will be the first to acknowledge that a percentage of fans have zero perspective and a limited grasp of what does and doesn't constitute reasonable or normal behaviour...... Yes, it would be nice if some portions of fandom would just chill out. |
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Post by mattplace on Dec 23, 2013 10:39:19 GMT
Yep. Public Eye, Callan, Mystery & Imagination, Armchair Theatre, The Rat Catchers, The Informer, Haunted, Ready Steady Go, Crane, Freewheelers, Half Hour Story, No Hiding Place, Intrigue, Ace Of Wands, Out Of This World, Sexton Blake, Orlando etc. etc. All high on my list of most desired recoveries! Never heard of any of those never mind seen any of them. However .............. People, fans, board moderators (on other sites as well as this), site owners, Dr Who production staff et al, need to imo seriously consider stepping outside for a healthy dose of fresh air. I've been around various boards over the past number of months, seen mods (even some here) talk to people as if the mod is Dame Slap from the Magic Faraway Tree and 'posters' are naughty schoolkids. Plus seen mods press their 'I win' button to ban people then brag about doing so to the rest of the forum as if they are expecting a high five or a prize. Such attitudes by such people leave them with absolutely no respect and make them look as if they still need another decade before their proverbials begin to drop. Seen site owners (and I'm mainly looking @ DWA here) consistently post absolute rubbish after absolute rubbish with no meaning, sense or shred of evidence, primarily to one would assume just boost their hit count (and possibly revenue). But which has the knockon effect of bringing false hope and more squabbles, claims and counter claims. Seen fans bicker and bicker between what they think they heard a person say and what the person actually said. Been made aware that producers deliberately insert false hopes into segments, MP tin in the MBW doc. Seriously, wtf were they thinking ? Seen claim, counter claim and denial then followed by announcements. Seen major people who really should know better by now, have arguments on social media feeds that make them look as if they are all old women in a Russian post office queue squabbling over who was in line first. PM himself, while the boy done good as the expression goes. He doesn't really do anything to calm fires or frenzies down. Since in most cases, what is on the tin is what is in the tin, how long does it need to say "this this this and this can has been recovered, it may contain what is stated, it may not, and it may or may not be recoverable at this point in time with current technology" ? 10k tins ? Could probably do an inventory in a couple of weeks. None of it at all may be recoverable, but at least people know one way or the other if x has been located or not. Seen production staff deliberately leave out old Doctor's from a 50th anniversary special. But without those old Doctors they wouldn't have their current jobs now !! Comes across as pettyness at the very least. Doctor Who has fared extremely well as regards recovering lost TV programming. However, people really need to put that into perspective. MANY programmes have little or nothing left. Indeed, the programmes (inc Doctor Who) were deemed to have so little value either commerical or historic, that they were thrown away/destroyed at the time. Compare that to entire great civilizations in human history who have barely even a record that they existed at all. Doctor Who, with its mainly dodgy sets and people dressed in monster outfits, is a mainly childrens programme. Indeed, that was its target audience. As children, we are more easily impressed and pleased than we are as adults. How many of us have ever gone back and watched some of the programmes from their youth that they thought were great at the time and now think were absolute dross ? I have, and it's natural to think so and see them for what they are. Doctor Who is no different in that respect. Whether you have seen the lost episodes originally or not, you are looking from the perspective of how much you enjoyed them at a time when programming, and indeed the world, was a simpler less discerning place. If the 'lost' episodes turned up now, you may very well be disappointed watching them a second time around as an adult (almost pensioner) than child. But really, it's time that all the rumours, arguments, pettyness etc was pushed to the side, perspectives taken and that people act their real ages for a change. Why are you here? It sounds like you HATE Doctor Who and would prefer for all lost tv to stay lost, forever protected in your memory. I admit that not all old Who is "classic", some is bad, some is boring as hell(i'm looking at your space museem parts 2-4) and some is downright FANTASTIC. I cherish the fact that i can still see it, i LOVE that there is Passion for it after 50 years.(and i will assume that out there somewhere is someone who even loves the space museum!) As for the MODS acting like whoever the heck you mentioned... maybe if posters did not behave like idiots they would not have to. PM.. what is the point of him saying ANYTHING about what he found or not, there is a percentage of people on here who will not believe him anyway, and will twist and turn whatever he does say(and PV as well for that matter) into what they WANT to hear. If all the shows that people are searching for, longing to be rediscovered, are not to you liking, go and watch another season of Two and a half men and enjoy the high production values of a modern series. I'll stay watching some old show with "dodgy sets and people dressed in Monster outfits"., Enjoy |
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Post by johnforbes on Dec 23, 2013 10:46:48 GMT
@ Greg
Just a quickie, not going to requote that massive wall of text. No it wasn't Laurence who I was referring to, but have seen 2 mods post on this forum recentlyish in a less than 'mod' fashion.
But as you also agreed, yes, fandom (plus those closer)really needs to chill out.
If anything else gets announced, all well and good. If it doesn't, well, as I said, Doctor Who has still fared better than virtually everything else that was made. But in all honesty, constantly chewing over food that isn't even on the table doesn't really do anyone any good at all.
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Post by Greg H on Dec 23, 2013 10:51:53 GMT
(and i will assume that out there somewhere is someone who even loves the space museum!) Guilty as charged. It is an old favourite |
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Post by mattplace on Dec 23, 2013 10:56:39 GMT
(and i will assume that out there somewhere is someone who even loves the space museum!) Guilty as charged. It is an old favourite Can i ask what you see in it? I really like episode 1, it is great, but 2-4 i cannot stay awake in them? |
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Post by Simon Jailler on Dec 23, 2013 10:59:58 GMT
@ Greg Just a quickie, not going to requote that massive wall of text. No it wasn't Laurence who I was referring to, but have seen 2 mods post on this forum recentlyish in a less than 'mod' fashion. But as you also agreed, yes, fandom (plus those closer)really needs to chill out. If anything else gets announced, all well and good. If it doesn't, well, as I said, Doctor Who has still fared better than virtually everything else that was made. But in all honesty, constantly chewing over food that isn't even on the table doesn't really do anyone any good at all. Callan is well worth a watch, John. Paul Vanezis' posts yesterday were very sobering and a bit of an overdue reality check. The Morcambe and Wise reel shows the extent and heartbreak of the recovery work ahead and Greg has sagely pointed out that finding out that episodes the rumor mongerors suggest are but weeks and a mouse click away are actually beyond use does nobody any favours. All in good time. |
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Post by Greg H on Dec 23, 2013 11:00:47 GMT
@ Greg Just a quickie, not going to requote that massive wall of text. No it wasn't Laurence who I was referring to, but have seen 2 mods post on this forum recentlyish in a less than 'mod' fashion. But as you also agreed, yes, fandom (plus those closer)really needs to chill out. If anything else gets announced, all well and good. If it doesn't, well, as I said, Doctor Who has still fared better than virtually everything else that was made. But in all honesty, constantly chewing over food that isn't even on the table doesn't really do anyone any good at all. I agree with all you say there heartily with the exception of the moderation here, and trust me I am extremely blunt when I think someone is being a tool, mod status wouldn't exempt them from my vocal opinions either really I may have missed something, but the majority of the attitude has been from people with low post counts who have just materialised as I see it! |
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Post by Greg H on Dec 23, 2013 11:11:27 GMT
Guilty as charged. It is an old favourite Can i ask what you see in it? I really like episode 1, it is great, but 2-4 i cannot stay awake in them? Well, it is an extremely corny take on the generation gap in my opinion. Television gold it isn't, but it does always make me chuckle. It isn't quite in the same league as Horns of Nimon for fits of giggling, but it is an old favourite none the less. I cannot really offer an in depth analysis of it, it doesn't have that much depth to analyse; but we get to see the original crew stumbling through a fairly predictable sci fi by the numbers adventure. I cannot truly justify why I like it I enjoy it considerably more than the sensorites, reign of terror, the gunfighters and a couple of other Hartnells. |
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Post by Neil Lambess on Dec 23, 2013 12:02:07 GMT
I have to say I totally agree with a poster on the last page. Theres been a lot of critism aimed at fans and web sites such as this and some of the other less well monitored, and how they hinder finds etc, but to deliberately place a Marco Polo can as a wind up on the top of a pile, which is going to have exactly the effect these so called experts are complaining about is stupidity beyond belief. Why on Earth would you do that? You cant complain that the fans are fanning the flames when you keep lighting the fire. What a sadly ill judged foolish thing to do. Well I assume they thought that nobody with more than two brain cells to rub together, would be so daft to imagine that an announcement would be made by a half second shot of a film can in a documentary. Therefore it must be a spoof. And therefore it would not cause a problem. The fact it has, says much more about the more intellectually Challenged elements of whodum than about the producers of the documentary. now would be a good time to mention that before I and Paul confirmed its existence , the film print of "the Lion" had been advertised for sale on the website of a fictious country called Occussi Ambeno along with a lovely selection of Stamps issued and printed by Bruce Grenville (who had created the utopian state as a hobby ) despite no recorded sales of Doctor Who to Occussi Ambeno a missing episode was safely returned after been advertised for sale from a non existent Country ! so stranger things have happened ! Ive often wondered (and shuddered) what the reaction would have been like if details of "the Lions" listing on Bruces website had appeared on here first ..... a brief history of the glorious nation of Occussi Ambeno (based on an article from 1987) can be found here....... along with a picture of one of the stamps issued celebrating the finding of the episode.... www.takver.com/history/nz/grenville.htm |
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Post by Tim Disney on Dec 23, 2013 12:18:42 GMT
Possibly the misguided notion that doctor who fans have a sense of humour about the universe and can take a joke? I am sure they will have learned their lesson by the amount of toys thrown from prams over it.... Quite The reference to Marco Polo has been taken completely out of context by those who didn't even bother to leave the comfort of their own homes and see the film for themselves. I can confidently make that statement, as the critics are repeating the same mis-reported information from earlier in this thread. The feedback from those who actually saw the film was very positive, even about the inclusion of the reference to Marco Polo. Most people quite sensibly took it in the good-natured silly season way in which it had been intended. The inclusion of what was extremely subtle and tongue in cheek humour, was part of a scene that had been shot months before the 'omnirumour' went public and some people still retained a sense of humour. The reaction says far more about the critics than it does about Kaleidoscope or the film. If you're interested to know anything about the huge haul of very rare 'Non-Who' related television footage (99.99999%) recovered by Kaleidoscope during the production process, get along to the Kaleidoscope Facebook group to see a non-exhaustive list and hear more from Chris Perry. Previously missing material dating back to 1936 was included in the documentary and the footage that wasn't used will be available for all to see over the coming years at forthcoming Kaleidoscope events. I do understand the excitement generated by the stirling work of Phil Morris, but it appears to have been at the expense of common sense and good manners, which is a shame. Happy Christmas everyone. I'm sure 2014 will be a great year for fans of ALL missing television. |
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Post by edhipkiss on Dec 23, 2013 12:30:56 GMT
PM himself, while the boy done good as the expression goes. He doesn't really do anything to calm fires or frenzies down. Since in most cases, what is on the tin is what is in the tin, how long does it need to say "this this this and this can has been recovered, it may contain what is stated, it may not, and it may or may not be recoverable at this point in time with current technology" ? 10k tins ? Could probably do an inventory in a couple of weeks. None of it at all may be recoverable, but at least people know one way or the other if x has been located or not. I haven't seen Phillip Morris' letter of recommendation from the BBC & BFI John, but I'm pretty sure the nature of the work carried out on their behalf doesn't include a "respond to every half-baked rumour, hissy fit, or outright lie" clause in his contract. It's not his job to respond to rumours. He doesn't have to respond to rumours. And really why should he when people choose not to believe half of what is said regarding what we DO know about the recoveries so far? It would be lovely (though naive of me I know) to think that maybe people could just leave the guy (and the BBC FOI fans!) alone to recover what needs to be recovered, and for any announcements to be made when anything is confirmed fit for broadcast / release and restorable. I can imagine the uproar if, say, Marco Polo was recovered and in a similar state to the lost Morcambe and Wise show. There would be all sorts of crackpot theories as to how they could be restored, or how it's all a big conspiracy, or how the BBC "don't care about the true fans who pay their wages". As for your point about "an inventory [being done] in a couple of weeks" - as was pointed out at the MBW event these things take a lot of time to do. So why persist in this myth that some minimum wage kid on job experience can knock off a definitive list in no time at all? It takes as long it takes. They are the experts. We, most definitely, are not. They know what they are doing, despite certain people continually portraying those involved with the recoveries as on sabbatical from the circus. |
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Dec 23, 2013 12:35:08 GMT
@ Greg Callan is well worth a watch, John. Paul Vanezis' posts yesterday were very sobering and a bit of an overdue reality check. The Morcambe and Wise reel shows the extent and heartbreak of the recovery work ahead and Greg has sagely pointed out that finding out that episodes the rumor mongerors suggest are but weeks and a mouse click away are actually beyond use does nobody any favours. All in good time. Callan is easily one of the best television series ever made. |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 23, 2013 12:38:02 GMT
I do understand the excitement generated by the stirling work of Phil Morris, but it appears to have been at the expense of common sense and good manners, which is a shame. Happy Christmas everyone. I'm sure 2014 will be a great year for fans of ALL missing television. Cheers to that, Tim!  As for the noisy nanas, well, there's a few in every bunch - but I think this place is the envy of many others for the highly favourable signal to noise ratio and inestimable contributions by the overwhelming majority of fine and very decent members here - be they luminaries or happy supporters.  The lessons many in the general community at large have hopefully now taken to heart over the process leading up to the reveal of Enemy and Web - that fevered slagging off of tireless champions of cultural heritage is an own goal of galactic proportions - have I think (with the odd gentle cudgelling) only elevated the general tone here, and why I think the forum serves as an exemplar. No thread locks since MBW - that's got to be a sign of progress considering the recent past - and my hope is that this air of intelligent and polite enthusiasm will see us through the ongoing process, until such time as Phil is able and willing to further comment about his work and his progress with it. Meantime, thanks to Paul V for shedding what light he could yesterday!  The better we behave, the better any new finds will feel when we get a chance to revel in their return to the world. And yep, may 2014 keep alive the love for and dream of recovering new lost treasures of film and television!  |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 23, 2013 12:49:29 GMT
PM himself, while the boy done good as the expression goes. He doesn't really do anything to calm fires or frenzies down. Since in most cases, what is on the tin is what is in the tin, how long does it need to say "this this this and this can has been recovered, it may contain what is stated, it may not, and it may or may not be recoverable at this point in time with current technology" ? 10k tins ? Could probably do an inventory in a couple of weeks. None of it at all may be recoverable, but at least people know one way or the other if x has been located or not. I haven't seen Phillip Morris' letter of recommendation from the BBC & BFI John, but I'm pretty sure the nature of the work carried out on their behalf doesn't include a "respond to every half-baked rumour, hissy fit, or outright lie" clause in his contract. It's not his job to respond to rumours. He doesn't have to respond to rumours. And really why should he when people choose not to believe half of what is said regarding what we DO know about the recoveries so far? It would be lovely (though naive of me I know) to think that maybe people could just leave the guy (and the BBC FOI fans!) alone to recover what needs to be recovered, and for any announcements to be made when anything is confirmed fit for broadcast / release and restorable. I can imagine the uproar if, say, Marco Polo was recovered and in a similar state to the lost Morcambe and Wise show. There would be all sorts of crackpot theories as to how they could be restored, or how it's all a big conspiracy, or how the BBC "don't care about the true fans who pay their wages". As for your point about "an inventory [being done] in a couple of weeks" - as was pointed out at the MBW event these things take a lot of time to do. So why persist in this myth that some minimum wage kid on job experience can knock off a definitive list in no time at all? It takes as long it takes. They are the experts. We, most definitely, are not. They know what they are doing, despite certain people continually portraying those involved with the recoveries as on sabbatical from the circus. That point on inventory seems way off base to me too, Ed.  It is based on nothing more than supposition, in the service of entitlement.  John, unless you are an employee of Phil's - you can't possibly know how many cans he's currently wrangling with or got coming, nor the state of them, the labels (or lack thereof), nothing. My hope is that he's doing things at the most sensible pace, for him and the material, to get the best result. Nothing else matters. I'd like him to be happy and successful and know we are wishing him the very best in this vital work he seems to have a passion and a wonderful knack for. When it's time, as Paul V and Phil himself have indicated, we'll get more information. Now is not that time - just as it wasn't when Enemy and Web were unveiled in October.  They're busy. Let's just let them get to it rather than invent personally convenient timetables for when things some of us would like to happen, should occur.  |
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