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Post by JOHN SMITH on Nov 7, 2013 12:09:05 GMT
Poring over these boards the last few weeks I'm sure I saw a recent post about a rumour of a new DMP orphan turning up. What's the take on this ?
For a story that stood the least chance of survival over anything else, 3 out of 12 atm isn't bad at all.
At this rate the community would expect "Feast of Steven" to turn up in Full HD colour with stereo surround sound.
One thing I've never been able to get my head around is certain orphans.
Eg, why were only 4 eps of IW found in a cupboard. Logic states there should have been all 6 "stored" there for safe keeping (or walking away with later)
Even now, WOF 3. I find it weird that a tv station who actually kept all their stuff, 8000 cans or so if reports are to be believed, when they were asked to destroy it/send it back (and presumably kept it in some semblance of order rather than prints just thrown into the room willy nilly). That they would carefully pile cans of film in order 1-6 EOTW 1-2 4-6 of WOF and seemingly "throw away" ep 3. Just doesn't make sense.
(Or sense if the can was there but empty)
DMP: 5 and 10 in a crate, rest nowhere to be seen. If people were going to crate something up officially or walk away with it unoficially, you'd think they'd take an entire story not just an episode here and there. Again, no logic.
Plus similar with other stories too.
Afaik, iirc I remember reading the prints found by Levine were kinda put together for destruction. Full stories. Logic would say that if episode X of story Y suddenly found itself at a car boot sale, they'd have probably had episodes W, Y and Z as well.
These publicly offered for sale episodes that have been recovered over the years. These are "recovered" thanks to people giving them back. People however are not all the same, look at the art world, MANY collectors have something "one of a kind" that is never seen again for (sometimes) hundreds of years.
Surely some collectors would take delight in knowing they have "missing" Doctor Who episodes. Some may have even forgotten about them down the years.
Logic would say that unrecovered eps DO still reside in private hands.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Nov 7, 2013 16:01:26 GMT
There are many reasons why Serials are split up in both private and public hands. Many of them theoretical, but entirely possible. The Ice Warriors films and the Fury can could've been from New Zealand. Fury could've been sent to another country, and episodes 2 and 3 thrown out because they had been heavily edited. The films could've been just backups used for editing and splicing. The missing two episodes could've been requested by another department for viewing and copying for clips.
DMP 2 was kept separate because it was, I believe, used as a teaching tool about how to use film. Episodes 5 and 10 may have been in the same situation.
If you look at the list of episodes being wiped, you'll see that it is a mixture of whole serials and random episodes being wiped at any given time.
As for car boot sales, I can't tell you how annoying it is for me when people split up collections and sell them separately. I have had to deal with Civil War Letter collections that someone decided would be better to sell letter by letter on eBay. It makes them more money to do it that way. If a collector had a large stash of episodes he may get more money selling them two cans at a time. Plus, the method of throwing the cans away was random. Some would be put on the skip, some thrown out. It all depends on who grabbed what random can as it was being carted out. Also, when Reign 3 was sold in a car boot, that seller also had episode 6 which he wasn't selling at the time.
As for Nigeria, we're faced with only speculating what could've happened. Perhaps after having been viewed in three or four different countries that episode simply broke down beyond use? Episode 6 of EotW had a break. Or perhaps an employee wanted to teach a newcomer how to operate the machinery, went into the store room, grabbed a random episode, and used it without putting it back. Perhaps Singapore never sent it, having mislocated it, and Nigeria was forced to play only those five episodes?
If anyone needs to correct any of the info above, please do.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Nov 7, 2013 16:05:53 GMT
I will say that if an episode or two of DMP does show up next week I'll be very miffed (briefly). I'm listening to that story right now! About to watch episode 5. Just watched Episode 4 ... Katarina's death was much more disturbing than I would've thought.
p.s I don't really believe in this rumor.
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Post by Greg H on Nov 7, 2013 16:13:39 GMT
I will say that if an episode or two of DMP does show up next week I'll be very miffed (briefly). I'm listening to that story right now! About to watch episode 5. Just watched Episode 4 ... Katarina's death was much more disturbing than I would've thought. p.s I don't really believe in this rumor. The Loose Cannon recon is well worth tracking down if you get a chance. It brought the story alive for me nicely  |
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Post by Andrew Parker on Nov 7, 2013 16:16:21 GMT
I would be completely flabbergasted if this rumour was true.
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Post by John Green on Nov 7, 2013 16:55:18 GMT
Could someone provide a link to the post mentioned in the O/T?
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Post by Patrick Coles on Nov 7, 2013 17:08:10 GMT
I can remember Katarina's 'death scene' from all those years ago, both she & her captor guy are jettisoned out into space when she opens the airlock
we see the pair of them 'floating' dead in space, it was done in slow motion with the pair of them staring, quite horrible actually especially for kids !
The death of Sara Kingdom (Jean Marsh) was rather eerily done too as she got older & older, then was a skeleton in uniform..
In an earlier episode (maybe 'Mission To The Unknown') an astronaught gets a needle from a Varga creature in him...next time he looks he has a row of growth on his arm...!
we see an earlier victim...a Varga creature...wearing spaceman's boots !
the entire 13 episode 'epic' was pretty scary for a supposed children's show and the 'Day of Armageddon' episode is pretty much just as I remember the entire story being, albeit a bit 'padded out' here & there
I remember 'Marco Polo' too - I recall how it dragged for me as a child over the seven weeks, so IF it has turned up (great) but do be prepared for a bit of a 'plodding' tale...
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Nov 7, 2013 17:23:59 GMT
I can remember Katarina's 'death scene' from all those years ago, both she & her captor guy are jettisoned out into space when she opens the airlock we see the pair of them 'floating' dead in space, it was done in slow motion with the pair of them staring, quite horrible actually especially for kids ! The death of Sara Kingdom (Jean Marsh) was rather eerily done too as she got older & older, then was a skeleton in uniform.. In an earlier episode (maybe 'Mission To The Unknown') an astronaught gets a needle from a Varga creature in him...next time he looks he has a row of growth on his arm...! we see an earlier victim...a Varga creature...wearing spaceman's boots ! the entire 13 episode 'epic' was pretty scary for a supposed children's show and the 'Day of Armageddon' episode is pretty much just as I remember the entire story being, albeit a bit 'padded out' here & there I remember 'Marco Polo' too - I recall how it dragged for me as a child over the seven weeks, so IF it has turned up (great) but do be prepared for a bit of a 'plodding' tale... Marco Polo dragged for me even in Recon. I wasn't too thrilled with it. There are scenes I would love to see, but for the most part I'd rather have The Crusade or The Myth Makers back. Masterplan so far has been a good watch. I'll need to see the rest of it, but so far I'm enjoying it a bit more than I did any of the previous three Dalek stories. |
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Post by steveb on Nov 7, 2013 17:41:31 GMT
I can remember Katarina's 'death scene' from all those years ago, both she & her captor guy are jettisoned out into space when she opens the airlock we see the pair of them 'floating' dead in space, it was done in slow motion with the pair of them staring, quite horrible actually especially for kids ! The death of Sara Kingdom (Jean Marsh) was rather eerily done too as she got older & older, then was a skeleton in uniform.. In an earlier episode (maybe 'Mission To The Unknown') an astronaught gets a needle from a Varga creature in him...next time he looks he has a row of growth on his arm...! we see an earlier victim...a Varga creature...wearing spaceman's boots ! the entire 13 episode 'epic' was pretty scary for a supposed children's show and the 'Day of Armageddon' episode is pretty much just as I remember the entire story being, albeit a bit 'padded out' here & there I remember 'Marco Polo' too - I recall how it dragged for me as a child over the seven weeks, so IF it has turned up (great) but do be prepared for a bit of a 'plodding' tale... I missed DMP 4 so would be great if that turned up - albeit unlikely - I do remember ep 12 though, quite hard-core for a kid's program. I remember the doctor getting older too and his face changing - bizarrely, in my memory his nose turned red (how that worked in black and white I don't know!). And yes I was dead scared of the Varga, a fate worse than death... But although they were mentioned in DMP they never turned up again, in fact much to my relief as I was watching. |
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Post by steveb on Nov 7, 2013 17:53:48 GMT
Logic would say that unrecovered eps DO still reside in private hands. I don't think logic says anything except there's always a chance to be honest! I did have good information (or believed-by-me information anyway), many years ago, on two episodes in a collector's hands. 20 years later they never turned up yet and I never even heard them rumoured so who knows. |
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Post by David Pountney on Nov 7, 2013 19:56:15 GMT
My post will probably get edited or deleted but I just want to say the rumour for DMP returns are episodes 11 and 12 but require work as were apparently stuck together and episodes 4 and 7. I know it is a bit suspect for episode 7 but has been returned by a private collector.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Nov 7, 2013 20:02:16 GMT
My post will probably get edited or deleted but I just want to say the rumour for DMP returns are episodes 11 and 12 but require work as were apparently stuck together and episodes 4 and 7. I know it is a bit suspect for episode 7 but has been returned by a private collector. Fantastic!Maybe now we'll get to see Sara Kingdom's demise at the hands of the Time Destructor! |
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Post by Timothy Austin on Nov 7, 2013 20:16:22 GMT
I would dearly love to see more of 'The Daleks Master Plan', it's my favourite story on audio cd from the Hartnell era, plus episodes 2, 5 and 10 on the 'Lost in Time' DVD Boxset are brilliant instalments.....yet even I find it very hard to believe that episodes have been recovered, and that there are FOUR of them! Plus one of those is 'The Feast of Steven'! Like all rumours I will not believe it until I see it!
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Post by Peter Ledwith on Nov 7, 2013 20:32:05 GMT
So were are they then? Who has them now?
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Post by Richard Marple on Nov 7, 2013 20:58:32 GMT
The Master Plan seems to have up in fans estimation in recent years.
At one time it was regarded as being overlong & reusing ideas from The Chase, but as the survivng episodes were found it seemed to get more popular.
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