No Hiding Place: 1.17 - Victim of the Dark

[Ben]

I wouldn't post the link online for that very reason! I wouldn't have even mentioned it if it wasn't for the fact that I was unsure about the No Hiding Place episode.

Can I e-mail the link to you to confirm whether it's the same site? The No Hiding Place episode is missing as I gather and maybe the Billy Bunter episode too. (I would assume that the Dad's Army, It Ain't Half Hot Mum etc. episodes do survive, but that's just a guess based on probability.)

[Ben]

StuartDouglas said:

I've had a look through it a few times but it was so frustrating to navigate and then compare to online missing episode lists, and I never spotted anything I could say for certain was missing.

So glad it wasn't just me! I've checked moreorless every part of the site and I did find it very frustrating! I found myself skipping some parts (Armchair Theatre, for example) because it got too confusing (there was reference to epispdes he didn't have and it wasn't clear which he actually had). It's also hard to tell what exact format everything is on - off-air video recordings, I think. I know that he does [claim to] have the No Hiding Place as he does specifically state that the following episodes are ones that he "has".

If I e-mail you the link, I'll add some direct hyperlinks to the stuff of interest (No Hiding Place, Billy Bunter, comedy series, Oh Boy).

[Stuart Douglas]

Guest-Ben said:

Can I e-mail the link to you to confirm whether it's the same site? The No Hiding Place episode is missing as I gather and maybe the Billy Bunter episode too. (I would assume that the Dad's Army, It Ain't Half Hot Mum etc. episodes do survive, but that's just a guess based on probability.)

Please feel free to email, Ben - my address is stuart at groovychocolate dot com.

All the Dad's Army that's missing, AIUI, are these three from Series 2:

'The Loneliness of the Long Distance Walker'
'A Stripe for Frazer'
'Under Fire'

I would have thought stuff like Armchair Theatre and the like would be more probable to be missing.

Cheers

Stuart

[Ben]

Thanks. I've just sent the e-mail.

The problem I have is that I'm not a missing episode hunter and don't pretend to be. I just occasionally look around the Internet to see if I can find anything of interest. I can only compare listings with the missing episodes lists on this site and others, so anything not listed on those, I wouldn't necessarily know are missing. (For example, I believed Blue Peter was complete in the archives!)

[Ben]

Googled just informed me that over three hundred episodoes of Armchair Theatre are missing (but not a list of the missing episodes). This collector has:

Toff and Fingers
A Night Out
Lena O My Lena
The Omega Mystery
The Man Out There
The Blackmailing of Mr S
I Can Destroy the Sun
The Ship That Couldn't Stop
The Trouble With Our Ivy
Where I Live
Afternoon of a Nymph
The Man Who Came to Die
Sharp at Four
The Trial of Dr Fancy
A Magnum for Schneider

Don't know if any of those are missing.

[michael]

I have just read with intrest that someone has a copy of the No Hiding Place ep Victim of the Dark for trading.
I have a VHS copy of this myself.
I doubt it has come from V/T but looks like an ancient T/R.
The episode is watchable,but the picture quality leaves something to be desired.
The ep is complete except that just as the end titles are about to end it stops without the A-R Prod endcap.
All you see is a brief glimpse of the coulor bars,suggesting that it has come from within the TV industry.
It stars Peter Vaughn.
Regarding the other NHP eps listed I cannot comment as I do not know about the archive staus of this program.
The Public Eye eps mentioned are out on Network DVD.
The three Z Cars eps;all I know is that the ep Tuesday Afternoon was repaeted earlier this year on BBC4.
Ben also goes on to say they have other ep from shows such as:Ghost Squad(shot on 35mm,except for one season as ATV film/VT ,but I think this exits in full),Police Surgeon(only one ep with a young Michael Crawford known to survive,shown in C4's TV Heaven in 1992),Redcap(Dick Fiddy says they all exist in positive viewing format,although the ep on the Network Sweeney DVD is from VT),The Protectors(assuming this is the 60's ABC seris,don't know the archive staus),Riveria Police(A-R-any left?)Sergant Cork(I have a feeling all three season exist;maybe all 16mm T/R's.),
Dnager Man,Saint and Gideon all on 35mm,Mystery Theatre(is this ABC's Armchair Mystery Theatre,which I think all survive),CourtMartial is on 35mm,Espionage which is on 35mm as well as Human jungle and Edgar Wallace.
There are not many Billy Bunter's left either.
I think all the Muffin the Mule survive in the hands of a private owner;but you can pick up a DVD of four of the 50's BBC eps in HMV-cue mass stampede.
Mr.Pastry was one of the first shows to be done for A-R;was it a George King Prod for A-R?
If so,all the George King shows were T/R'd and now exist with the NFTVA.
The two beneth the sea shows from ABC I think are missing or have gaps;can't say about Lion & Witch;what on earth is Foo Foo?
Criss Cross Quiz was a Granada show I think;the other quizes Double,Opportunity and Golden all have gaps in their archive status.
This is Your life would be worth checking to see if their are any lost editions not with BBC or Thames;I would love to know what Orient Express is about.
Tension & Crooked Path,Overseas Press Club,Tales from dickens and Flying Doctor are not shows known to me.
The other shows are all 35mm prods and exists with Granada Ventures.
The 1963 Hancock ATV seris all survive on 16mm with Granada Ventures.
To cut it short when Ben mentions "other seris",the only ones complete are:Coronation St,Face to face,Richard the lionheart,Robin Hood,Buccaneers,Willam tell,Count Monte Cristo,Long John Silver,Sir Lancelot,Francis Drake are all complete with Granada ventures.
The state of Danzingers prods are a bit hap hazzard,and I don't have any info about these.
Douglas fairbanks Presents was a seris of 35mm prods shot over here in the 50's and seen in both the US and UK.
Some eps were donated to NFTVA following Dick Fiddy appearing on The Big breakfast about two years ago and making an appeal for anyone with any "lost" TV to pass it on.
Watching the show was the producer of Fairbanks Presents who donated a number of eps he had,but not the entire seris;one was shown at missing believed wiped two years ago.
The othe progs mentioned in the passage are obviously TV studio prods,and there would unduobtably be gaps in their history.
There's only three seris two Dad's Army eps missing;two Ain't Half Hot Mum's got wiped by the BBC but were screened in Oz and someone has a tape of them sans opening/closing credits.
None of the Are You Being Served? and Please Sir are missing.
Is Dick Barton(1-5) the late 70's Southern prod or was there something in the late 50's/60's?
The variety shows mentioned must all have gaps,but if the Morcambme and Wise mentioned is there Two of a Kind ATV show,then this exists in full.
There are gaps in Harry Worth.
Arthur haynes,Bootsie and Army game are all in existance as far as i know.
Glenncannon was done on 35mm and I think was some kind of UK/US co-prod and I think was something to do with TPA/ITC.
Mr.Digby Darling exists and has been on granada Plus;George and Dragon is complete and on DVD;Whacko! has lots of eps missing and probably Hugh and I as well.
Re Comedy Playhouse-The Bed;don't know if it's lost or not,but The Old Campaigner with Terry Thomas and Dereck Fowlds does exist.
I'd also like to know what films they have regarding trains-I happen to be a railway entusiast.
Is it the 60's Granada seris about railways,BBC's Railway Roundabout,BBC's 70's seris The Iron Road?
Regarding the Armchair Theatre eps mentioned in the last posting,these all exist according to Dick Fiddy's book Missing,Believed Wiped....except one!
The prod Where I Live is not mentioned in the list of the surviving eps,so here's hoping there's gold in them there film cans!
I do believe that there is more lost British TV floating around out there;look at the Boyd QC ep on ebay recently which was bought by someone in Northumbria from the US;I hope the new owner gives the rest of the world a chance to see it;and about the same time an American disopsing of his late brothers film collection had a 16mm print of a Newcomers ep for sale.
Only time will tell if these people have lots of lost British TV tresaures waiting to see the light of day;lets hope they have what they say they have.
And more importanly....let's see it!

[Adam]

All you've found is a listing of someone's personal collection/ragbag of recordings - very little different from probably any other "serious" collector's holdings.

If the chap has that much material, no matter what the format, I'm sure he's savy enough to know exactly what does and doesn't exist in the various companies archives.

Now, if he's selling copies of the material.....

[Ben]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Michael.

"I have just read with intrest that someone has a copy of the No Hiding Place ep Victim of the Dark for trading.
I have a VHS copy of this myself."

Did you not realise it was a missing episode?

"The three Z Cars eps;all I know is that the ep Tuesday Afternoon was repaeted earlier this year on BBC4."

www.missing-episodes.com lists them all as existing.

"Police Surgeon(only one ep with a young Michael Crawford known to survive,shown in C4's TV Heaven in 1992)"

I thought it was worth mentioning all the "other series" just in case some were missing. I only have missing episodes lists to go on and I've never seen Police Surgeon mentioned in any of them. This trader only has Easy Money, which I think is the episode you mentioned (he mentions Michael Crawford in his description).

"The Protectors(assuming this is the 60's ABC seris,don't know the archive staus)"

It is. He has:
Who Killed Lazoryck?
Landscape with Bandits

"Mystery Theatre(is this ABC's Armchair Mystery Theatre,which I think all survive)"

On further inspection: "Kraft Mystery Threatre". (Episode: 1. The Professionals.)

"There are not many Billy Bunter's left either."

I think Stuart may be able to explain whether the episode I was confused about is missing or not.

"The two beneth the sea shows from ABC I think are missing or have gaps"

This trader has:
1 The Mysterious Metal
2 Voyage Into Danger
3 Sabotage
4 The X - Layer
5 The Take Over
6 Death Trap

"what on earth is Foo Foo?"

An ABC cartoon series apparently. (He has an episode called Beauty Treatment.)

"the other quizes Double,Opportunity and Golden all have gaps in their archive status."

Double Your Money:
No idea which episodes he has.

Oppurtunity Knocks (had a feeling this might be incomplete):
He has one episode. Not sure which.

The Golden Shot:
He has a "1967 show with Jackie Rae" with guest Tom Jones; and a "show compered by Bob Monkhouse" with guest Clive Dunn.

"This is Your life would be worth checking to see if their are any lost editions not with BBC or Thames"

He has six episodes, but doesn't mention who the programmes as about as not to spoil them. He gives clues, however, for example, "Best known in the Z Cars hit as Barlow".

"I would love to know what Orient Express is about."

So would I as it would give me some clue as to which page it might be on. I can't find it!

"Is Dick Barton(1-5) the late 70's Southern prod or was there something in the late 50's/60's?"

What type of programme is this? Can't find it!

Also maybe worth mentioning: I keep finding series I didn't spot last time. For example, just found lists for Martin Kane, The Invisible Man, Charlie Chan, Scotland Yard, International Detective, 4 Just Men, Dial 999 and more! It's like trying to find needles in a haystack without knowing how many needles (if any) are lost.

"The variety shows mentioned must all have gaps"

I'll let the person who makes contact look into those. I've spent far too many hours looking at that site.

"I'd also like to know what films they have regarding trains-I happen to be a railway entusiast."

"TRAINS - London to Brighton in four minutes; Railway Roundabout (clips)". Does that mean anything? Not sure if the programme is called TRAINS or London to Brighton or both!

Just also spotted: "Face to Face- John Freeman's probing discussion with Tony Hancock". I know Tony Hancock has a lot of fans and missing material, so it was worth mentioning.

"I do believe that there is more lost British TV floating around out there;look at the Boyd QC ep on ebay recently which was bought by someone in Northumbria from the US;I hope the new owner gives the rest of the world a chance to see it"

I'm pretty sure I know who bought that. I won't say who as it's not my place to, but I'm sure he will make a copy available. I read that the seller can take a long time to post his films, so the buyer is probably still waiting.

"Only time will tell if these people have lots of lost British TV tresaures waiting to see the light of day;lets hope they have what they say they have."

I'm gutted to see no mention on that site of missing episodes of Doctor Who, Doomwatch, Z Cars, Softly, Softly and Dixon of Dock Green. I'd be over the moon if just one episode from any of those series turned up (roughly in the order I mentioned them).

I hope the person who makes contact goes through the site religiously and has a vast knowledge of missing episodes. Maybe I should contact Dick Fiddy? I'd assume he'd know or have access to information regarding all missing episodes. What is his e-mail address?

[Ben]

Guest-Adam said:

All you've found is a listing of someone's personal collection/ragbag of recordings - very little different from probably any other "serious" collector's holdings.

If the chap has that much material, no matter what the format, I'm sure he's savy enough to know exactly what does and doesn't exist in the various companies archives.

Now, if he's selling copies of the material.....

He does appear to have some knowledge of missing episodes (though not religiously, it seems). It's also worth mentioning that this is a trading site, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get a copy of any missing material.

[Stuart Douglas]

Guest-Ben said:

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Michael.

"I have just read with intrest that someone has a copy of the No Hiding Place ep Victim of the Dark for trading.
I have a VHS copy of this myself."

Did you not realise it was a missing episode?

If neither Michael nor the online collector realised that the episode was missing it does lend some weight to the idea that there could be any number of things out there in private hands which collectors are genuinely not aware are wanted.

"There are not many Billy Bunter's left either."

I think Stuart may be able to explain whether the episode I was confused about is missing or not.

From www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/guide/articles/b/billybunterofgre_1299000322.shtml: "Five latter episodes - four in 1960 and one in 1961 - were new versions of scripts enacted between 1952 and 1955. " - which might explain the discrepancy in dates for 'Backing Up Bunter' (which does seem to be missing).

I hope the person who makes contact goes through the site religiously and has a vast knowledge of missing episodes. Maybe I should contact Dick Fiddy? I'd assume he'd know or have access to information regarding all missing episodes. What is his e-mail address?

Or possibly someone from Kaleidescope?

Stuart

[Anthony]

If you can get a reply from Kalidascope that is.

[Ben]

Guest-Anthony said:

If you can get a reply from Kalidascope that is.

That's exactly what I was thinking about Mr. Fiddy. Question is: who is most likely to reply? I'll probably contact Mr. Fiddy as he would seem to be the person best qualified and least likely to miss anything of value that everyone else might.

[michael]

I have just come back from a hard day at Bow municipal London County Council tram depot and have just read the replies to my fountain of knowldge posting regarding a dodgy ep of No Hiding Place.
Thank you to those that have replied and added infomation.
First of all,I was not aware that Victim of the Dark was a missing ep;about two years ago I was able to procure some vintage TV material from a collector that was mainly ATV/ITC shows.
He just happened to mention that he had "two NHP's" and I asked him to put them on a tape for me,but he later said he only had the one ep.
I was astounded that anyone could get hold of any A-R material.
The only other stuff I've seen from them is on TV,clips and C4 TV Heaven etc.
Regarding Kraft Mystery Theatre,this is a US prod as it was sponsered by Kraft foods(the Dairylea brigade).
It started out in the 50's as live TV in the US and ran into the 60's.
Try some US TV websites for info on this show;this is how I found out about the very first Colombo TV outing as a live drama in 1960-and it exists.
Re Oppertunity Knocks,a couple of 70's ATV progs were shown on Challenge TV a couple of years ago;and theirs only about 13 from the 70's left.
I have a b/w ABC TV one from 1966/7(?) but it's the one the documentry people have always used for clips,so it could be the only surviving one from that era.
The ABC material in now in the hands of that French company Canal +;as far as I know John Herron is still in charge of the archive,but I do not have any contact details.
Re This is your Life-in 1986 BBC comp That's TV Entertainment the surprise where Eammon whips it out in front of Charlie Barlow was shown and this exits at BBC.
Some early 60's TIYL were rerun in the 90's along with vintage Dixon's.
Just in case you are unfamillar with Dick Barton,it was a popular radio serial in the 50's and I think had a BBC version on TV in the 50's and also a Southern seris circa 1978.
Dick Barton was a detective who wore a flashers mac and was assisted by Jock(a Scotsman) and Snowy(because he had white hair).
The variety shows mentioned all seem to be ITV shows;with Thank Your lucky Stars there are only three eps in existance.
One got returned a couple of years ago and was shown at NFT(the Beatles were guests),and this was a bootleg VHS copy that had been found in America and it had a time clock running in the top right corner so there are hopes that the origanal 2"VT is out there somewhere.
The trains programs are already in existance;London to Brighton in 4 Minutes was shot on 35mm by BBC in 1949 on speeded up film of a train journey from Victoria to Brighton.
The BBC have it.
Railway Roundabout was shot on b/w and color 16mm film in the late 50's&60's by railway enthusiasts and shown on BBC TV.
All these film exist with the National Railway Museam archive in York-take note,it was not a BBC prod but indepently made.
The Face to Face's all exist in BBC archive-the Hancock one was repeated as a ten of the best selection intro'd by Joan Bakewell in the 90's.
And if anyone wants to get in touch with Dick Fiddy at NFT his adress is:[e-mail]
So there you have it-hopefully the person who has this "tresure trove" of old TV will bear fruit and we will be able to see some classic TV again.
As long as it's not the way BBC4 treats classic TV!
Is there any chance they will repeat those vintage shows without suddenly cutting to two standard EU old farts with less intelligence than a motorway breakfast talking a load of old cobblers while we miss bits of the program!
Oh well,time to go,thanks for reading and contributing and lets hope we get a new bulb in the searchlight so we can shed some light on these shows.TTFN!

[Stuart Douglas]

Guest-michael said:

The variety shows mentioned all seem to be ITV shows;with Thank Your lucky Stars there are only three eps in existance.
One got returned a couple of years ago and was shown at NFT(the Beatles were guests),and this was a bootleg VHS copy that had been found in America and it had a time clock running in the top right corner so there are hopes that the origanal 2"VT is out there somewhere.

The TYLS and Oh Boy shows the trader has listed are, so far as I can ascertain, the only one which are still extant in the archive

Stuart

[Ben]

Just to let you know, this is going to be passed on to Dick Fiddy later. I'll ask him to post any developments here if he has the time.

FAO Stuart,: Will reply to your e-mails later. Was going to yesterday, but got sidetracked.