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Post by Kev Mulrenan on Dec 2, 2008 11:22:33 GMT
I have 2 complete episodes and the general idea seems to have been, if they did not have a top ten hit ever, cut them out.
So no Mckinleys
no Zephyrs
no Plebs
No Hummelflugs
Also dances to records were cut; would not appeal to modern audiences.
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Post by Chris Barratt on Dec 2, 2008 11:42:18 GMT
We can only really go on what we have seen - If Dave has a bigger archive than what has previously been released then maybe it was just his skewed logic that created the compilations or maybe part of the deal he struck at the time.... As it's a licensing minefield these days that will slice into his profits like a razor blade we may well have to wait another 8/10 years when the '50 years' are up and/or they pass into someone elses hands. We shall see. The over-riding impression I get of DC now is someone who has realised his own mortality somewhat and that things are passing him by. Treating his own legacy with the respect it deserves has taken long enough (though hampered no doubt by the expectation he could strike worldwide multi-million dollar deals with the likes of Disney & Warners when in actual fact the limited appeal of his original albums are/were more in the See For Miles/Rhino territory), I think the crowing about his RSG archive may have proven to be a rod for his own back in that it's bound to be proven true or false at some point
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Post by Peter Chadwick on Dec 2, 2008 14:16:34 GMT
There's also the actual CONDITION of whatever 'RSG!' material he has; I've never seen a complete version of The Beatles' 'Twist And Shout' from their first 'RSG!' appearance, it always starts halfway through the first verse, both on the C4 broadcasts and on the Video release.
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 2, 2008 17:57:27 GMT
I'd take whatever DC says with a VERY large pinch of salt, particularly when it comes to 'RSG!'. He's going to find that releasing material in the eighties on video is one thing, but trying to renegotiate the rights for a DVD release will be next to impossible, particularly where The Beatles are concerned. It doesn't help that when he IS interviewed, it's usually by someone who doesn't have the knowledge to pick him up on certain things. I think he's only put out DC5 collections for very good reasons. They'd sell much better in the States than here (where they've always been among the third tier of sixties pop acts); there's a LOT of filler on DC5 lps, which is why he's only concerned with compilations. He's had 25 years to put out DC5 CDs. When he feels like telling us what 'RSG!' he actually has, I'd be all ears. Not literally, or course, that would be hideous. It sounds as though negotiating rights to DVDs is a lot more complex than videos! Although The Beatles were, and indeed still are very popular, I don’t know why They have be different to other groups. I’m intrigued as to how Dave Clark Five’s collections sell better in the States, due to them being a UK band, but I know that their 1993 CD release covers most of their main hits plus some smaller chart hits of theirs. I must admit that I rarely see DC5 compilations in the shops, I’ve seen more on Amazon that in any shops! I hope that Dave will release various editions or selections from various editions of Ready Steady Go in the future. I enjoyed the performances on the 1980s repeats and these would cover a good spectrum of 1960s music.
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 2, 2008 18:01:31 GMT
Though welcome back in 1984 when Dave Clark did a deal with Channel 4 to broadcast RSG, those shows and the repeats a decade later were heavily hacked compilations. The Beatles appeared on the show three times performing several songs on each occasion, but Clark hacked them up so The Beatles got to appear in each of these "new" shows. He did the same thing with the Rolling Stones. There has been much debate over just what Dave Clark actually has of RSG. He simply bought a whole load of tins stashed in some cupboard sometime in the 70's. He did the repeats and VHS compilations without undertaking any clearances if Sandie Shaw is to be believed. She was annoyed to discover one of her performances was on one of the VHS tapes and confronted Clark about this and negotiated a deal whereby the artistes on the tapes got some kind of payment. This means that Dave Clark did NOT bother to negotiate any kind of licensing fees until he was confronted. He wouldn't get away with that today. It makes his business seem all the more questionable. Judging from what we have seen of Clark's RSG archive, he doesn't have as much as he has claimed... in 1992 he said the cache he bought contained "all" the specials... if that was the case then why have we never seen the James Brown special from 1966 or the infamous Paris live broadcast featuring The Yardbirds and The Who... or "Ready Steady Who" for that matter? It's believed his RSG archive is pretty much a rag bag of inserts and partial episodes as opposed to a whole load of complete shows. Apart from the 1965 Motown special and the 1966 Otis Redding special, we have not seen any complete unedited episodes from Dave Clark. Even stranger is we've never actually seen any footage of the DC5 themselves on RSG. They definitely appeared several times on that show - there are photos proving this - but it makes one question what Clark has said about the DC5 on TV... that each time they did a show, Clark made it a condition that he would get a copy of it for his archive. If that was the case then why was all the DC5 footage that was shown on the RSG repeats (in their own section) taken from US TV appearances? Any idea why Dave heavily edited the Ready Steady Go compilations? Also, is it money or/and copyright that restricts Beatles material being released? I know that I’ve never seen Beatles songs released on various artists compilations, and the double compilations “1962-1966” and “1967-1970” can retail, new, at about £20-£25! I’m amazed that Dave organized repeats and VHS compilations, without undertaking any clearances! I always thought it was part and parcel that this was essential to avoid any legalities. When you say, Dave wouldn’t get away with the above today, what has been put in place to safeguard copyright and prevent non-clearances? I don’t know what to make of these situations regarding Dave Clark. It looks as though a few of you have read some bad news about him. I haven’t yet looked on Youtube to see if there’s anything of Ready Steady Go, including Ready Steady Who, but these editions you’ve referred to would be good to see if they exist. I don’t know how much exists of the Manfred Mann – 5-4-3-2-1 theme tune era, but I’ve seen something from an opening of one of those editions, and more than likely, there’ll be more of the other theme’s editions. It’s good that the 1965 Motown special and 1966 Otis Redding special exist in full. Other than nothing of the Dave Clark Five existing from Ready Steady Go, the only other explanation I can think of is that Dave is blocking the rights for their performances to be shown, or he wants a higher repeater fee. More logically though, none were recorded or kept, as the two existing recordings of DC5 from Top of the Pops exist, one recovered. It seems that American television must have kept a better archive of the group’s songs. I wonder also if any continental Europe stations have DC5 performances from TOTP or/and other television shows. I know that Sweden has better quality copies of some of our Top of the Pops performances.
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 2, 2008 18:01:45 GMT
I have 2 complete episodes and the general idea seems to have been, if they did not have a top ten hit ever, cut them out. So no Mckinleys no Zephyrs no Plebs No Hummelflugs Also dances to records were cut; would not appeal to modern audiences. I’ve never heard of the McKinleys, Zephyrs, Plebs or Hummelflugs, but my music tastes are very eclectic, and if these and other obscure acts would surface, it would be good to see them. Indeed, if any of them are on Youtube (when I next get a moment, I’ll take a look), it would be good to watch them from that site. One of the dances to record that I saw once was Bread and Butter by The Newbeats, with a link from Keith Fordyce. It’s good that modern audiences are covered but a waste that middle aged or older audiences aren’t catered for, as while a lot of music has been wiped from TOTP, RSG and other shows, there’s still quite a lot of scope for music to potentially broadcast.
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 2, 2008 18:02:27 GMT
There's also the actual CONDITION of whatever 'RSG!' material he has; I've never seen a complete version of The Beatles' 'Twist And Shout' from their first 'RSG!' appearance, it always starts halfway through the first verse, both on the C4 broadcasts and on the Video release. Other than that the shows were partially wiped or cued in halfway through The Beatles’ Twist and Shout, perhaps The Beatles wanted much higher repeater fees than other bands to repeat the performance in full. One of the others might know the reason, but like you, I’d like to see that in full if it exists.
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 2, 2008 18:12:57 GMT
Whilst it would seem to one degree or another Mr Clark has got some perspective back re: the DC5 back catalogue (perhaps due to growing old) we can only wait and see what transpires. Music-wise they were actually better than I thought they were having played the 2 1993 compilations which I didn't expect at all - which goes to show all this keeping his music off the shelves hasn't done their legacy any favours at all I so hope that more audio and visual recordings of the group will be released in the future. Likewise to Ready Steady Go. I am very impressed with the music selections I've seen or heard of DC5's music, and equally with their visual recordings. It's a shame so little survives of the group visually, at least on Top of the Pops, hoping there's more out there of other songs that many may have not heard for years, or ever, like Do You Love Me (originally by The Contours), Catch Us If You Can, You Got What It Takes (the Marv Johnson song), Put a Little Love in Your Heart (also performed by Al Green, and later Annie Lennox). Even with the archive junkings, there's at least USA copies of performances, so all's not lost. I just more would surface, as their sound had a distinctive beat, with a pop beat in the early years to a more progressive rock sound in their later years.
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Post by Peter Elliott on Dec 2, 2008 19:41:44 GMT
I so hope that more audio and visual recordings of the group will be released in the future. Likewise to Ready Steady Go. I am very impressed with the music selections I've seen or heard of DC5's music, and equally with their visual recordings. It's a shame so little survives of the group visually, at least on Top of the Pops, hoping there's more out there of other songs that many may have not heard for years, or ever, like Do You Love Me (originally by The Contours), Catch Us If You Can, You Got What It Takes (the Marv Johnson song), Put a Little Love in Your Heart (also performed by Al Green, and later Annie Lennox). Even with the archive junkings, there's at least USA copies of performances, so all's not lost. I just more would surface, as their sound had a distinctive beat, with a pop beat in the early years to a more progressive rock sound in their later years. Problem with the DC5 visual heritage is there is PLENTY from 1964 to 1967 but from 1968 onwards there appears to be very little save for a handful of clips. This was because between 64 and 67, the DC5 generally concentrated on the American market and Dave Clark has stated he got copies of "all" the American TV shows. When he did the DC5 interludes on the RSG repeats and put together a VHS compilation alongside the 1993 compilation CD, it was mostly drawn from The Ed Sullivan Show, which exist in their own right anyway. He did use the TOTP "Everybody Get Together" but spliced it up with a later colour film clip featuring him and Mike Smith from I'd guess 1972 or 1973. It's most of the 1968 to 1970 hits which remain unrepresented in visual form. During that time the DC5 did TOTP many times and I'm sure odd spots on other UK TV shows but whether Dave Clark got copies of any of those remains to be seen. Hopefully his forthcoming visual history of the band might enlighten us further as to what he does and doesn't have.
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 2, 2008 22:52:09 GMT
I so hope that more audio and visual recordings of the group will be released in the future. Likewise to Ready Steady Go. I am very impressed with the music selections I've seen or heard of DC5's music, and equally with their visual recordings. It's a shame so little survives of the group visually, at least on Top of the Pops, hoping there's more out there of other songs that many may have not heard for years, or ever, like Do You Love Me (originally by The Contours), Catch Us If You Can, You Got What It Takes (the Marv Johnson song), Put a Little Love in Your Heart (also performed by Al Green, and later Annie Lennox). Even with the archive junkings, there's at least USA copies of performances, so all's not lost. I just more would surface, as their sound had a distinctive beat, with a pop beat in the early years to a more progressive rock sound in their later years. Problem with the DC5 visual heritage is there is PLENTY from 1964 to 1967 but from 1968 onwards there appears to be very little save for a handful of clips. This was because between 64 and 67, the DC5 generally concentrated on the American market and Dave Clark has stated he got copies of "all" the American TV shows. When he did the DC5 interludes on the RSG repeats and put together a VHS compilation alongside the 1993 compilation CD, it was mostly drawn from The Ed Sullivan Show, which exist in their own right anyway. He did use the TOTP "Everybody Get Together" but spliced it up with a later colour film clip featuring him and Mike Smith from I'd guess 1972 or 1973. It's most of the 1968 to 1970 hits which remain unrepresented in visual form. During that time the DC5 did TOTP many times and I'm sure odd spots on other UK TV shows but whether Dave Clark got copies of any of those remains to be seen. Hopefully his forthcoming visual history of the band might enlighten us further as to what he does and doesn't have. I hadn’t realized there’s lots of back number 1964-1967 visual recordings and the status is poorly represented in the archives after that. Two other songs come to mind from the group’s later era are Good Old Rock ‘n Roll and Here Comes Summer (the latter originally a hit for Jerry Keller), but alas, it seems they must be lost forever. I’ve heard that USA television didn’t keep all of their archives, but they seem to be quite well represented for music performances. Likewise to Germany and Sweden, whose archives are quite well kept. While Marmalade’s Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da and Tom Jones’s Delilah exist by luck, due to being rebroadcast on Pop Go the Sixties!, there will no doubt have been some other artists and performances which also were rebroadcast on other BBC programmes, that were wiped with the TOTP repeats on them. There are probably some European television or private European copies of a certain number of performances, some possibly from Top of the Pops. I believe that the 06/06/68 and 01/02/73 editions and the insert of Stevie Wonder’s Uptight were recovered from overseas. I am intrigued where the complete 18/11/71 and 02/12/71 (both b/w) TOTP shows were recovered from, but this is good news. Back to the Dave Clark Five, I see what you mean about little existing. On Youtube, for instance, while not totally representative of what exists inside and outside the BBC, I’ve found two rare performances and one recovered TOTP performance (sorry about the quality of the 1970 song. Sometimes there’s more than one link for the same performance, but this is all I can find): uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uOP4pcjYhbs – Everybody Knows 1968, b/w: Lenny Davidson on lead vocals Programme unknown uk.youtube.com/watch?v=d77Na0ikxsU – Mulberry Tree 1969, b/w: Mike Smith on lead vocals Show unknown – This song is even rarer, as it never charted www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS_r104sK6w - End of The Cufflinks-When Julie Comes Around: Performance (0:01-0:05); Jimmy Savile speaks to The High Chaparral actor Henry Darrow then a young lady who speaks Spanish; Jimmy Savile intro; Dave Clark Five and Madeline Bell-Everybody Get Together: Repeat Performance (1:17-5:21): Mike Smith on lead vocals; Jimmy speaks to a female dancer; Jimmy Savile intro; Jimmy Savile and the Crowd dance to Edison Lighthouse-Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes): Disc (number 1) (5:39-8:21) 26/02/70 (Jimmy Savile), b/w Poor quality recording The Database doesn’t list Madeline Bell under 26/02/70 and 05/03/70. Presumably Madeline also performed on the 05/03 show, but she’s definitely on the existing 26/02/70 edition. I’m delighted that all or many editions of The Ed Sullivan Show remain intact. Here’s one of many links from the show: uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bS-SKwutP_g – Ed Sullivan intro; The Beatles intro to Paperback Writer then Rain I've just found this rare footage of the Dave Clark Five, featuring I Know You (the B side to Glad All Over, also on the clip) and Bits and Pieces: uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sehYnUVAcZMAs to Ready Steady Go!, here’s a link to one of their early editions from 1964, plus two DC5 performances: uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HfIJxvFMy2Y&feature=related – Manfred Mann – 5-4-3-2-1 opening theme; Keith Fordyce intro with Crowd clips; Look at “Fashion”; The Beatles-You Can’t Do That; Cathy Macgowan interviewed George Harrison; The Beatles-Can’t Buy Me Love (it costs 6/9 for a 7” record then!); Keith Fordyce interviewed the group; uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NInB7FYk-pQ – Dave Clark Five-Do You Love Me (their first UK hit): Mike Smith on lead vocals uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hgCvnds6Xps – Dave clark intro; Dave Clark Five-Glad All Over: Mike Smith on lead vocals
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Post by Peter Elliott on Dec 2, 2008 23:14:18 GMT
The clip of "Everybody Knows" comes from a 1968 episode of a USTV show made in London called "Showtime". "The Mulberry Bush" comes from German TV's "Beat Club" where on the same edition in January 1969 they also performed "Live In The Sky".
Along with the TOTP "Everybody Get Together", this is all we seem to have visually of the DC5 from 68 onwards. A shame. Wouldn't it be great to see "Good Old Rock and Roll" on the first colour TOTP?
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Post by Peter Elliott on Dec 2, 2008 23:22:26 GMT
The two RSG clips were shown on the RSG repeats in the 80s and 90s but are actually American TV clips. Not certain of their origin... maybe "Sullivan" or "Shindig!" RSG certainly never had sets like that and had it been RSG you'd have seen plenty of the audience. This is how confusion arises and it doesn't help that Dave Clark himself used these clips in a way that implied they were from RSG.
Thanks for these... most interesting to see Dave's spoken intro on "Glad All Over" and maybe it's just me but do I detect slight discomfort in Dave's eyes as the camera continues to linger on him on that opening shot?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 11:09:00 GMT
While Marmalade’s Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da and Tom Jones’s Delilah exist by luck, due to being rebroadcast on Pop Go the Sixties!, The Delilah clip exists independent of Pop Goes The Sixties, as an insert from March 1968 (complete - and doesn't have the cutaway shots to the Pop Goes The Sixties studio dancers, which jars anyway, cutting from t/r to VT to t/r).
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Post by David Saunders on Dec 3, 2008 11:13:28 GMT
While Marmalade’s Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da and Tom Jones’s Delilah exist by luck, due to being rebroadcast on Pop Go the Sixties!, The Delilah clip exists independent of Pop Goes The Sixties, as an insert from March 1968 (complete - and doesn't have the cutaway shots to the Pop Goes The Sixties studio dancers, which jars anyway, cutting from t/r to VT to t/r). Upon viewing the Database, I see that there are two existing performances of Delilah: 29/02/68 - Repeat Performance - I now know that this will be the Pop Go the Sixties! performance, as 07/03/68 - Performance (extract) is the only surviving March one, in which case, it's complete after all!, which is even more good news!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2008 17:36:55 GMT
Speaking of "Beat Club" it's not been mentioned here yet but there are 3 multi DVD boxsets apparently being released containing every edition of "Beat Club" complete and unedited - excepting Beatles clips. Whats more the German version of "Rolling Stone" has a free sampler featuring various clips from these new DVD's and a German pal of mine who has seen the free DVD says it appears they've been properly remastered for the first time, noticing a significant upgrade in quality! This is good news indeed. Just re-reading some old postings here so apologies for late reply! Do you know if these new sets are available from any U.K. source, Peter? I wasn't aware that any complete editions of Beat Club had been released anywhere - make a good Christmas present (New Year now though!)
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