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Post by B Thomas on Jan 6, 2009 8:55:03 GMT
..africa has by and large been searched ,the last b/w prints were sold circa 1976,they dont exist most missing material from the entire lost catalogue of bbc output was sold to africa ,but was either sent back destroyed sent on ..a very long time ago how do i know this ..ive been and looked Really? That must have been a big job...
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Post by philg on Jan 6, 2009 13:58:28 GMT
many archives,have since moved location overseas material,was bicycled around very hard not many prints were made ..storage is extremely poor and we are talking nearly 40 odd years ago,the original broadcaster ordered prints destroyed,when finished or returned the true reality is far removed from fans hopes and dreams ..i have visited these places i know.i have been were no fan has been before...
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Post by Larry Dutch on Feb 2, 2009 14:10:42 GMT
many archives,have since moved location overseas material,was bicycled around very hard not many prints were made ..storage is extremely poor and we are talking nearly 40 odd years ago,the original broadcaster ordered prints destroyed,when finished or returned the true reality is far removed from fans hopes and dreams ..i have visited these places i know.i have been were no fan has been before... Thanks for that. Everyone, Philg has checked Africa - don't bother anymore OK? It's totally done. Right, I can now concentrate solely on the TV archives at Tristan Da Cunha. I mean it is a British owned province isn't it? While I am being flippant here, I know everyone continually lives in hope about more DW eps being found but the reality is that toss all has been found in the past decade in the age of super improved worldwide communication. If the list gets down to 106 missing eps it will be a miracle. As a music head and a non-DW head I just wish the level of research and detail with chasing missing eps for DW had gone into progs like TOTP, Thank Your Lucky Stars, Ready Steady Go and The Beat Room and regional British shows like Now, Discs A Go Go, Three Go Round, Five O'Clock Club/Funfair and Scene At 6.30. This is stuff that was mostly screened once, generally in the UK only, and that's it. Slices of pop music history that sometimes changed popular culture - gone forever (presumably). In the scheme of television history, brief moments with way more historic gravitas than part 2 of a missing Troughton story . What I would give to see the Beatles' one and only actual TOTP app in 1966. Or lost performances on TOTP by foreign visitors such as The Mamas & The Papas, The Doors and The Easybeats. Even The Hollies doing He Ain't Heavy on TOTP. IMHO - at the risk of being shot down (as there are far more knowledgable on DW on this forum than me), the best chance of finding any missing DW eps are: (1) NZ film collectors (2) Aussie film collectors (3) UK film collectors (4) uncatalogued holdings in various FIRST WORLD Commonwealth countries' film/TV archives where the show was screened As someone who has worked in two film archives I can at least offer the reality that every single archive in the world has uncatalogued/unlisted/unlabelled material sitting around doing nothing. Every one. Archives are generally poorly resourced and while it might take 10 minutes to lug 8 boxes of film onto a shelf from a car, it might then take 20 solid days to work out what is on each item. Sometimes one 16mm can from a TV station news library for example might have 40 x 3 mins rolls inside. Multiply that by 5 people doing that per month and on top of existing work, gradually this backlog of material can pile up. It then gets listed in a paper catalogue back in 1972 when it arrived as a single line like 'Paul Venezis 22 x 16mm' and then not get looked at for decades. The card might get lost or alternatively, no one ever does an audit of EVERYTHING on shelf. That NEVER gets done, believe me. And even if that had been done, has every single can been matched against its enclosed contents? NO. Have all the producers, directors, writers and editors (or their next of kin) of every single missing ep of DW been contacted? If not, that would be potentially worth pursuing. I really don't think that saying "BBC paperwork states that only one print was ever made...etc" means the story ends there. Bollocks. Favours get pulled, people will steal, copy, lie or perhaps just be forgetful in filling out paperwork. Most TV stations had extremely busy internal telecine departments that were printing new prints to send out on a constant basis. Remember, TV stations had to screen mint prints and if one arrived with a smashed-in can that potentially damaged a few frames or more, they would request another one. An hour later and a new print was ready to be shipped. Would the BBC bother to write this down? Maybe yes sometimes but not all the time. Telecine depts in the 60s would operate much like a video production unit would years later. Dubbing another copy was not a big deal. That said, SO many people have looked into this situ of missing eps for at least 30 years for this stuff. Aren't there like 20 plus fanzines and websites on Dr Who in Australia alone? If a massive network of enthusiastic people discussing, theorising and discussing this passion for decades can't locate anything, then I think 108 might only go reduce by one IF YOU ARE LUCKY. Nobody has proved they have portions of a missing ep. Or can I be proven wrong on this? Is there a collector out there with potentially a missing ep prepared to reveal a few frames on the web? I keep hearing about collectors frequenting this site who brag they have stuff but never back it up. Go on then, prove to us you have something unseen... Cheers LD
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 17:38:45 GMT
What I would give to see the Beatles' one and only actual TOTP app in 1966. This is a myth that continues to be trotted out. It's a well known fact that The Beatles appeared on TOTP a lot more than once (a rudimentary glance at Mark Lewisohn's books will give you the dates / song details). Several times in 1964 and once in 1965 too. The '66 appearance was their only live (as it went out) performance but all the others were genuine TOTP appearances too (i.e. shot in advance as inserts but in the TOTP studio specifically for that show). Any average music fan should know this. I agree with you though that much missing material must reside in the world's archives and it's a pity that more thorough searches aren't made for non-DW programmes too. I'm convinced in my own mind that missing programmes would be unearthed.
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Post by philg on Feb 3, 2009 1:09:31 GMT
whilst an interesting theory ,my search of africa was for other shows too much of whats missing from bbc and itv ,was sold to african states,i personally recorded the local newspapers for copies of old tv guides ,at the national archives most archives in africa do not hold index cards or any paperwork for what they hold ,the bbc only made a limited number of prints which were bicycled around ,nearly forty years ago ,with instruction to return or destroy. im sorry if it upsets people but they are the facts backed up by photographic evidence and my personnel experience
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Feb 3, 2009 12:28:33 GMT
..africa has by and large been searched ,the last b/w prints were sold circa 1976,they dont exist most missing material from the entire lost catalogue of bbc output was sold to africa ,but was either sent back destroyed sent on ..a very long time ago how do i know this ..ive been and looked i don't wish to be too sceptical but can you post something to back up these claims because that would be an incredible achievement for one person to search the archives of Nigeria, Zambia, Uganda, etc (i'm guessing your including Ethiopia too are you?). As i understand it it takes quite a while to check just one can of film. also please can you put your full name up as per the forum rules.
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Post by Greg H on Feb 3, 2009 18:01:59 GMT
..africa has by and large been searched ,the last b/w prints were sold circa 1976,they dont exist most missing material from the entire lost catalogue of bbc output was sold to africa ,but was either sent back destroyed sent on ..a very long time ago how do i know this ..ive been and looked i don't wish to be too sceptical but can you post something to back up these claims because that would be an incredible achievement for one person to search the archives of Nigeria, Zambia, Uganda, etc (i'm guessing your including Ethiopia too are you?). As i understand it it takes quite a while to check just one can of film. also please can you put your full name up as per the forum rules. Yes, that is quite an amazing achievment really. I think someone should do an interview about how it was arranged etc and all of the interesting details of the African archives. I would be very interested to read it, fo sho.
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Post by Rob Moss on Feb 3, 2009 18:24:32 GMT
Remember, TV stations had to screen mint prints and if one arrived with a smashed-in can that potentially damaged a few frames or more, they would request another one. Hmm, they might request another can, perhaps... Have you seen the state of some of the film prints that have come back from overseas..?
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Post by philg on Feb 3, 2009 22:42:58 GMT
gentlemen..please when i have completed my mission ,all details will be revealed and the story will be told in words and pictures ,and video ,so everyone can see for themselves the story isnt quite finished yet ,but its genuine well organised and under the aegis of the copyright holders things are happening..
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Feb 4, 2009 19:59:04 GMT
gentlemen..please when i have completed my mission ,all details will be revealed and the story will be told in words and pictures ,and video ,so everyone can see for themselves the story isnt quite finished yet ,but its genuine well organised and under the aegis of the copyright holders things are happening.. phil - as i said i don't wish to be sceptical but why should we take your word for it? you've not supplied a shred of evidence to back up your claims. in fact i'd go so far as to say they are so outrageous that they are probably spurious and for mischief only. at this point, before this conversation gets ridiculous, i'd like to request that the moderators step in to ask you to confirm your identity otherwise we are in danger of bringing the thread into disrepute
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Feb 5, 2009 0:25:11 GMT
I can personally vouch for Phil.
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Feb 5, 2009 9:23:11 GMT
I can personally vouch for Phil. ok phil is known - thanks for the clarification. ...but people who are interested in the lost episodes come here for information and i don't think its helpful (and a little childish) to come on the board and make huge claims and then be all mysterious about it. its disrespectful to the intelligence of the rest of the members. phil should say who he is respresenting (he says the copyright holders which would be the bbc - so why not say it?) he should give details of his search (eg which countries and which television archives) because 'i've searched africa' sounds like a herculean task and also it would prevent other members wasting their time doing research if he has already covered it. and he should give a timescale (approx?) for reporting the findings of his 'project'. after all i'm sure we're all excited about this? also why is phil allowed to get away with not using his full name...? if any other members agree with me please post as i sound like the crazy voice in the wilderness. i'm happy to shut up if i'm just being stupid!
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 5, 2009 9:55:45 GMT
Why do you keep using the word "should"? It makes it sound like you think that there's some absolute right that people have to reveal everything that they're up to.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 5, 2009 10:09:44 GMT
If he's known to the powers-that-be and they say he's genuine I think we should accept that. What we don't want is more unsubstantiated rumours about lost classic stories about to be returned. Long experience has shown that they're inevitably hoaxes that just raise hopes before everybody is brought down to earth with a bump.
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Feb 5, 2009 10:37:08 GMT
Why do you keep using the word "should"? It makes it sound like you think that there's some absolute right that people have to reveal everything that they're up to. maybe 'should' is the wrong word... but why use deliberately cryptic language if you have something to report. i don't think plain English is a lot to ask for because if its not used then what is the point of the boards - i thought they were here to keep people informed and to exchange information? I must admit i haven't read the mission statement... perhaps they exist for another reason? philg has arrived recently (10 posts) and made huge claims without substantiation, and the moderators have vouched for him. I personally don't believe or disbelieve him. but given the impact that these claims on the search for missing episodes then i think a few words of clarification are not too much to ask for? notice i said 'ask' not 'demand'. if there is no clarification forthcoming there may be good reasons e.g. may compromise the investigation. but then say that - i'd accept it and wait for futher developments. forgive me if i still sound sceptical. i frequent the boards because like everyone else i'd like to see the lost episodes found and restored and i'd be at the front of the queue to say well done to phil even if he has not found anything but eliminated a line of enquiry - more power to him! really i don't think this discussion has anything now to do with lost episodes or whether phil's claims are true or untrue (i hope they are true) its really an issue of common courtesy.
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