Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2006 9:53:27 GMT
Just wondering how many episodes are still out there I think perhaps two or three anyone for any more.
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Post by Ash Stewart on May 29, 2006 10:01:37 GMT
I may have said this before, but I reckon we will be incrediby lucky if the number of missing Dr Who episodes drops down to double figures.
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Post by andrewainsworth on May 29, 2006 13:05:08 GMT
I reckon an even half a dozen.
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Post by Daniel O'Brien on May 29, 2006 13:14:57 GMT
There are probably a few episodes out there, either in unchecked film vaults or in the hands of collectors who a) don't realise the value of what they have (increasingly unlikely) or b) know full well and have no intention of handing it over. I think a few more will be returned but on a very intermittent basis. There was a five year gap between 'The Lion' and 'Day of Armageddon'. The next return could be another five years away. I don't think the huge gaps in the first two Troughton seasons will ever be filled. Hopefully, someone will prove me wrong.
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Post by Brad Phipps on May 30, 2006 2:28:21 GMT
165.
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Post by Chris Gilbert on May 30, 2006 17:57:23 GMT
Ooh Colingazza this is perhaps the question I find most perplexing regarding missing episodes.
When asked by friends over the last 5 years I have always guessed at 6.
Then DMP2 turned up so I should now say 5 shouldnt I? But if anyone asks me I still say 6!
If one turned up tmrw I would probably say there are still 6 more out there!
I suppose the answer I am looking at is we all hope there are "some" more but want to be realistic!
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Post by madman on May 31, 2006 10:44:44 GMT
Some pessimistic estimates, here. (Eccentric suggestion of 165 aside!) Do you guys have some knowledge to base these low estimates on? I am new to this (Hi there!) and had always thought that, what with the world being the size it is and what with Doctor Who having been aired all over it, the chances of a significant proportion of the missing 100+ turning up were actually quite good. I suppose I am a natural optimist (or fool), as given the asset that is the interweb and the level of interest outside rarified circles these days, one could say that there's never been a better time for them to show up, and yet it ain't happening. Is it true, do we know, that Marco Polo was copied a great many times and so those episodes could still be in foreign TV vaults (I am sure I read that somewhere)? And also that DMP prints are still thought by some to be archived (lost) Down Under, though it was never actually aired there (again, I read that)? Maybe if we all just wished very, very hard… :-]
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Post by Chris Gilbert on May 31, 2006 11:20:41 GMT
Hi Madman ;D I like to think I am being realistic more than pessimistic. In 25 years 27 Doctor Who episodes have been returned to the BBC, broken down as follows: 1981-89: 21 1990-99: 5 2000-05: 1 So you can see that the "find rate" has dramatically reduced. Most English speaking countries have believed to have now logged all their archive material so its "unlikely" they will return more episodes. We live in hope though. Regarding sales to other countries. Although Marco Polo was apparently sold to over 20 countries it does not mean that 20 copies were made. In most cases its believed only "several" film prints were made. These copies were then passed on from one country to another when the screening rights expired, a policy known as "bicycling". I really hope more turn up but I have the feeling any more returned episodes will come from private collectors possibly unaware of the rarity of the Who episode they hold.
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Post by madman on May 31, 2006 13:13:55 GMT
Cheers for the information, Chris. When you look at the rate of finds like that, it is dispiriting.
Straw-clutching time! What about non-English-speaking nations? There are a lot of those that bought Who! I'd have thought the Arabic nations that screened the series seriously need searching, for starters. As for (Western-world) collectors, I supppose they can only be of two types when it comes to holding Who: the unaware and the Dr. No-style selfish. Let's hope some awareness/conscience seeps in and yields some results...
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Post by Chris Gilbert on May 31, 2006 15:12:10 GMT
Hi Madman.
Yes it is dispiriting. I have always had an interest in missing episodes since I read about them as a boy in a Doctor Who Winter Special in 1981. After the Daleks Master Plan Ep 2 returned in 2004 though I really started to research into it.
There was a thread on here a while back about checking Arabic stations but the general feeling was political and religious climates make it near impossible to check.
I think (just a gut feel) that anyone holding episodes in the UK is unaware of their value. I don't think we have any Dr No type collectors. I feel this because I am sure by now something would have leaked out. But then if they do and never tell us we will never know e.t.c.
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Post by Brad Phipps on May 31, 2006 19:13:51 GMT
And also that DMP prints are still thought by some to be archived (lost) Down Under, though it was never actually aired there (again, I read that)? They're not; Damian Shamahan completed his research of the ABC and found no trace of them. The 13 part serial never aired anywhere else in the world. While the Feast of Steven (Ep7) was never offered abroad, Mission to the Unknown plus the 11 remaining DMP episodes were sent to Australia for viewing, who promply returned them after rating 4 episodes as (whatever the AO code was then).
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Post by stevewilliams on Jun 1, 2006 6:05:08 GMT
Actually ABC was sent screening copies, probably not those meant to be aired, and no, they did NOT return them to the BBC (for subsequent destruction), which continues to be a source of optimism that they may be found. By the way, "Mission to the Unknown" paradoxically seems to have been one of the last black and white episodes to have had its Master Quad wiped, possibly 1973 or 1974, whereas the rest of DMP was the first Dr. Who adventure to be wiped from its original Videotape in late 1966. Most Dr. Who Quads were kept for two years to four years, not wiped immediately after airing. This four year maximum archival policy extended into the Pertwee era, that's why the 1970 episodes were wiped between 1974 to 1976, regardless of the interest in the series. NTSC copies would have been made first.
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Post by Martin Dunne on Jun 1, 2006 12:47:08 GMT
Sorry, where are you guys drawing this from? Three episodes were rated A with no prospect of them being cut down to G. Do you know anything about the format BBC Enterprises was offering these prints in? The Film Censorship Board record viewing 16mm; and recommended cuts while retaining the excised clips. Were these prints known to be different from the broadcast film? Who copied the duplicates?
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Post by Greg H on Jun 5, 2006 13:11:40 GMT
I am optimistic about this issue. I am certain that before my days are done we'll be watching a few more Troughton stories. I just dont believe that all those episodes are missing without any trace anywhere. More will turn up ********edit***** And of course theres always the slim chance that a big box full of home recordings will surface before they turn to goo. It has happened hasnt it! And our good doctor would be a fairly likely candidate for home taping imo as it was a pretty popular show. Fingers crossed and eyes open!!
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Post by Daniel O'Brien on Jun 5, 2006 16:40:48 GMT
Re home recordings, there's a slim chance that someone taped episodes from Troughton's last season (other than 'Space Pirates' part two). As I understand it, there were very few domestic video recorders in circulation prior to 1968/69. Also, the high cost of tape meant people tended to erase recordings on a regular basis. 'Invasion' 1 & 4 and 'Space Pirates' 1, 3-6 might reappear in this format. I don't think we'll see home recordings of episodes from earlier seasons.
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