a little part of drwho 60hz video signal sync

[williamM]

Jeff said:

Who knows, ten years from now we may even be able to get a Reverse Standards Conversion transfer of a Pertwee episode that isn't washed-out and juddery. ;D

steady on now, I think you're getting into the realms of fantasy there

[peterconvery]

Revisiting this thread, the original idea isn't as completely bonkers as one would have thought, see below -

www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5zV1mC4E3w

As an additional, was the randolph tapes checked for any analog coding, or same outlook as it was above?

[Ace St.John]

And here's a video on the camcorder in the 80's that used cassette tape just to put this into even more context...

youtu.be/TCXJ5twf5tM

[brianfretwell]

I remember those going on sale.
On the other hand the first video recordings were made of Baird 30 line signals on 78rpm home disc recorders. I think there is a computer synced version of one on display at the Bradford Media museum.

[Ace St.John]

If only every episode of DW had been recorded as 30line video somewhere . I know not very detailed at all but thay would be better than nothing

[peterconvery]

Can anybody help with some extra information.

Was the direct line recordings from Graham Strong, Richard Landen and the randolph tapes recorded stereo?

I seen some randolph tapes were recorded mono, however, does that mean....from one area of sound, or it was recorded on one track, ie sound and video together?

Thanks

[tom rogers]

Jan 13, 2021 4:44:09 GMT Ace St.John said:

And here's a video on the camcorder in the 80's that used cassette tape just to put this into even more context...

youtu.be/TCXJ5twf5tM

I still have one of these and it still works. It was a Christmas gift in the 1980s and I have a tape or two from that time. Probably kept it because the tapes could only be played back on the unit itself. 

[Ace St.John]

Feb 21, 2021 23:42:53 GMT peterconvery said:

Can anybody help with some extra information.

Was the direct line recordings from Graham Strong, Richard Landen and the randolph tapes recorded stereo?

I seen some randolph tapes were recorded mono, however, does that mean....from one area of sound, or it was recorded on one track, ie sound and video together?

Thanks

The tapes you mention are audio only tapes. And everything was broadcast in mono all of 1960's Who at least. When they say recorded in mono this means there was only one channel of audio. Unlike Stereo which has two channels - usually (but not always) mixed as left and right channels. Mono is only one channel of sound.

[peterconvery]

Feb 22, 2021 4:51:06 GMT Ace St.John said:

Feb 21, 2021 23:42:53 GMT peterconvery said:

Can anybody help with some extra information.

Was the direct line recordings from Graham Strong, Richard Landen and the randolph tapes recorded stereo?

I seen some randolph tapes were recorded mono, however, does that mean....from one area of sound, or it was recorded on one track, ie sound and video together?

Thanks

The tapes you mention are audio only tapes. And everything was broadcast in mono all of 1960's Who at least. When they say recorded in mono this means there was only one channel of audio. Unlike Stereo which has two channels - usually (but not always) mixed as left and right channels. Mono is only one channel of sound.

Thanks. Stereo came into play in the 80's on TV if I remember correctly.
So my question now would be - as these were taped on 1/4inch audio tapes, which would give 4 tracks and were taped direct line, would two of the tracks have been used - 1 for audio, 1 for video? I know they're audio tapes....I'm looking for tv hiss...

[Ace St.John]

Feb 22, 2021 9:33:56 GMT peterconvery said:

Feb 22, 2021 4:51:06 GMT Ace St.John said:

The tapes you mention are audio only tapes. And everything was broadcast in mono all of 1960's Who at least. When they say recorded in mono this means there was only one channel of audio. Unlike Stereo which has two channels - usually (but not always) mixed as left and right channels. Mono is only one channel of sound.

Thanks. Stereo came into play in the 80's on TV if I remember correctly.
So my question now would be - as these were taped on 1/4inch audio tapes, which would give 4 tracks and were taped direct line, would two of the tracks have been used - 1 for audio, 1 for video? I know they're audio tapes....I'm looking for tv hiss...

As far as I know there was only audio recorded onto these tapes and even if it were possible using the technology available at tbe time the tape speed was too slow to be able to record video. You can record just one track of mono audio on 1/4 tape. Only expensive machines were capable of recording 4tracks as this needs a special recording head that can do that. Most reel to reel tape recorders back then recorded just one mono track and used the whole tape for just one track

[Peter Stirling]

There was an attempt to make a television recorder (that directly recorded the in coming TV signal) with standard quarter inch audio tape it had various names such as Telcan, Wiltsgrove?? etc...depending on if you bought it in one piece or as a kit. Launched in 1963 it had gained enough momentum by 1965 to have been offered as a prize by the TV Times, but the big boys were on the trail (Philips, Sony etc) and it had the same problem as the BBC VERA ...to get the high frequencies needed for video the reels were revolving at 100mph - probably, making it something to be completely respected in a domestic situation.

Meanwhile Ampex and other firms had already solved the frequency problem previously by spinning the heads rather than the tape. It had no time-shift facility so the public were not sure what to do with it (with its limited time range) so it quickly faded away. Of course if any of the tapes survive they would be absolutely fascinating today.

www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/aNhfBgCgSByEMns5XPxXqA#:~:text=The%20Telcan%20video%20recorder%20was%20demonstrated%20to%20the,attempt%20at%20production%20of%20a%20domestic%20video%20recorder.

[Sue Butcher]

I don't think there's a single Telcan/Wesgrove machine left that still works properly. But if you found an old tape it might be readable at slow speed, and then you could put the picture back together with a bit of computer processing.

[peterconvery]

Thank you for your answers.

I realise that the speeds required would not produce any video on the audio tapes. Perhaps we're looking at it the wrong way.
I want the background tv hum and hiss, the stuff that Mark Ayres works furiously to eliminate from the audio to get crystal clear recordings.

I looked at the moon landings and how they managed to relay an imagine from outer space back in the sixties. What they achieved was almost as impressive as putting a man in a rocket and landing on the moon.
It was developed in 1958 and was originally a slow scan...giving approx 1 or 2 frames per second, taking from 20 secs up to a minute to get an image. By 1969 they had managed to get approx 10 frames per second of low res image's.
How they did it was by emiting a signal through a microwave, similar to an FM or AM radio signal, and amplifying and scan converting it back on earth into video footage. I think it was called low band tv. It used all the best equipment they had at the time that was available.
See the moon footage here -

www.google.com/search?q=moon+landing+kinescope&oq=moon+landing+kinesc&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j33i160j33i21.12669j0j7&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e4339279,vid:Y7AUT82-B6s,st:0

Now I was wondering can any of the background tv hum or hiss be separated from the direct line recordings and amplified to stand a chance before converting it in to image's?

The next stage would require scan conversations which can be easily replicated with modern computer equipment. (Perhaps even using something called the doppler effect to boost the sound.) Thats the easy part. The hard part would be getting the hum - hiss.

Long shot....I know....but I'm exploring every avenue here!

[peterconvery]

What direct line audio recordings survive and are missing video?

Starting from season 3
dalek masterplan -
Ep 1 - last half only - Randolph Tapes
Ep 3 - Randolph Tapes
Ep 4 - Randolph tapes
Ep 6 - Randolph tapes
(ep 7 confirmed mic recordings)
Ep 8 - Randolph tapes & Graham Strong
Ep 9 - Randolph tapes & Graham Strong
Ep 11 - Randolph tapes
Ep 12 - Randolph tapes and Graham Strong
Massacre-
Ep 1 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 2 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 3 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 4 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Celestial Toymaker
Ep 1 - Randolph
Ep 2 - Randolph
Ep 3 - Randolph
Savages
Ep 1 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 2 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 3 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 4 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Smugglers
Ep 1 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 2 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 3 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 4 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Tenth planet
Ep 4 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Power of the daleks
Ep 1 - 6 Randolph and Graham Strong
Highlanders
Ep 1 - 4 Randolph and Graham Strong
Underwater menace
Ep 1 & 4 Randolph and Graham Strong
Moonbase
Ep 1 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 3 - Graham Strong
Macra terror
Ep 1 - 4 Graham Strong
Faceless ones
Ep 2, 4-6 Graham Strong
Evil of the daleks
Ep 1, 3-7 Graham Strong
Abominable Snowman
1, 3-6 Graham Strong
Ice warriors
Ep 2 & 3 Graham Strong & Richard Landen
Web of fear
Ep 3 Graham Strong & Richard Landen
Fury of the deep
Ep 1-6 Graham Strong & Richard Landen
Wheel in space
Ep 1, 2, 4, 5 Graham Strong & Richard Landen
The invasion
Ep 1& 4 Richard Landen
Space pirates
Ep 1, 3-6 Richard Landen

That gives a possibility of 76.5 episodes. (If it works....)

[PAUL WOOD]

Feb 25, 2021 17:25:26 GMT peterconvery said:

What direct line audio recordings survive and are missing video?

Starting from season 3
dalek masterplan -
Ep 1 - last half only - Randolph Tapes
Ep 3 - Randolph Tapes
Ep 4 - Randolph tapes
Ep 6 - Randolph tapes
(ep 7 confirmed mic recordings)
Ep 8 - Randolph tapes & Graham Strong
Ep 9 - Randolph tapes & Graham Strong
Ep 11 - Randolph tapes
Ep 12 - Randolph tapes and Graham Strong
Massacre-
Ep 1 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 2 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 3 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 4 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Celestial Toymaker
Ep 1 - Randolph
Ep 2 - Randolph
Ep 3 - Randolph
Savages
Ep 1 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 2 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 3 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 4 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Smugglers
Ep 1 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 2 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 3 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 4 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Tenth planet
Ep 4 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Power of the daleks
Ep 1 - 6 Randolph and Graham Strong
Highlanders
Ep 1 - 4 Randolph and Graham Strong
Underwater menace
Ep 1 & 4 Randolph and Graham Strong
Moonbase
Ep 1 - Randolph and Graham Strong
Ep 3 - Graham Strong
Macra terror
Ep 1 - 4 Graham Strong
Faceless ones
Ep 2, 4-6 Graham Strong
Evil of the daleks
Ep 1, 3-7 Graham Strong
Abominable Snowman
1, 3-6 Graham Strong
Ice warriors
Ep 2 & 3 Graham Strong & Richard Landen
Web of fear
Ep 3 Graham Strong & Richard Landen
Fury of the deep
Ep 1-6 Graham Strong & Richard Landen
Wheel in space
Ep 1, 2, 4, 5 Graham Strong & Richard Landen
The invasion
Ep 1& 4 Richard Landen
Space pirates
Ep 1, 3-6 Richard Landen

That gives a possibility of 76.5 episodes. (If it works....)

Are the Landen tapes actual line recordings, though? I always thought they were microphone versions as opposed to recordings made from a direct link to a TV.