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Post by Roy Strang on Aug 7, 2005 19:28:36 GMT
What you said in your message is the sad fact of the matter. I myself only have two prints which I purchased almost two years ago and both of these are edited running to around 20 minutes. Hi Roy -- Which two episodes were you able to get? They must have come from some foreign country that chopped them either for content or for time (like Time Meddler Ep 1).... One of them is called The OK Carroll [sic] and I forget the second title but it's not missing as I had a friend verify for me. He also showed me unedited video copies of the episodes and I was able to see how much was cut. The OK Carroll [sic] has the whole last few minutes removed and the gunfight is butchered as are some close up shots of corpses earleir in the episode. I'll have to come back about the title of the second episode; it's another episode from the same story but doesn't lead straight into The OK Carroll [sic].
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Post by Jon Preddle on Aug 7, 2005 21:02:06 GMT
The OK Carroll [sic] has the whole last few minutes removed and the gunfight is butchered as are some close up shots of corpses earleir in the episode. quote] If this is so, then it sounds like an Australian print of the story, which was heavily cut by the censors. Jon Preddle
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Post by Roy Strang on Aug 7, 2005 23:28:36 GMT
The OK Carroll [sic] has the whole last few minutes removed and the gunfight is butchered as are some close up shots of corpses earleir in the episode. quote] If this is so, then it sounds like an Australian print of the story, which was heavily cut by the censors. Jon Preddle Would it be worthwhile if I dug the prints out, dusted them down and reproduce the information on the labels?
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Post by Jon Preddle on Aug 8, 2005 0:29:00 GMT
The OK Carroll [sic] has the whole last few minutes removed and the gunfight is butchered as are some close up shots of corpses earleir in the episode. quote] If this is so, then it sounds like an Australian print of the story, which was heavily cut by the censors. Jon Preddle Would it be worthwhile if I dug the prints out, dusted them down and reproduce the information on the labels? Yes, indeed it would! Jon
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Post by Steven Sigel on Aug 8, 2005 1:30:14 GMT
Would it be worthwhile if I dug the prints out, dusted them down and reproduce the information on the labels? Yes, indeed it would! Jon The prints could also be from Nigeria or New Zealand. If I recall, at least in some cases, the Australian prints have "ABC" leaders on them (I've seen a few Pertwee prints like that). I recall reading that Austrailia got their own negatives - but I'm not sure whether that was all of the prints or just some of them. But if the leaders are still intact on Roy's prints, that might shed some light on where they came from. In any case, the BBC still has the uncut negatives for all 4 episodes of the "Gunfighters", and the quality is excellent. The T/R dates for the existing prints are: ep 1: 10-Mar-67 ep 2: 7-May-66 ep 3: 18-Jun-66 ep 4: 21-May-66 I'm not sure why episode 3 was done a month later than episode 4, and why episode 1 was done a year later than the others -- perhaps more than one copy were made from the videotape for some reason?
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Post by Jon Preddle on Aug 8, 2005 2:43:12 GMT
The prints could also be from Nigeria or New Zealand. Not New Zealand - The Gunfighters was one of the handful of Hartnells that was never acquired or screened by the NZBC. Jon Preddle
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Post by Steven Sigel on Aug 8, 2005 3:04:06 GMT
The prints could also be from Nigeria or New Zealand. Not New Zealand - The Gunfighters was one of the handful of Hartnells that was never acquired or screened by the NZBC. Jon Preddle Hmm, Sounds like someone in New Zealand had good taste...
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Post by Stephen Neve on Aug 8, 2005 16:12:34 GMT
2) Prints that dissapeared from the library or were taken home rather than being junked. There can't be many of these,...[/i
Why do you say that Steven!. We know tenth planet 4 and masterplan 4 were supposed to be in the libary but were not returned from blue peter, wheel 5, power 6, toymaker 2, crusade 1, ice warriors 3 Where also supposed to have been put in the film libary, but never made it for some reason, where did they go! so thats 7 episodes that are known to have dissapared from the libary, and these are the ones we know about, what about the ones we don't know about. Do we know that? There's no evidence that "Tenth Planet" 4 wasn't returned. Masterplan 4 probably did go missing, but is as frankly as likely to have been junked as taken. And the other ones you mentioned were indeed in the film library, but were officially junked as being of no further value -not gone awol as you suggest. What evidence do you actually have otherwise? If I was to hire something from the BBC their would be a set procedure to follow and the same for returning it. I can't imagine there being anything different when Blue Peter hired TP 4 AND dmp 4. If these episodes had been returned their would probally have been a certain person who the prints would have been required and the returnee would probally have to sign some paperwork to say it would have been returned. I can't imagine both these episodes being returned and then junked.
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Post by Stephen Neve on Aug 8, 2005 16:24:13 GMT
[quote author=Stephen Neve board=who thread=1116610287 post=1123365513Why do you say that Steven!. We know tenth planet 4 and masterplan 4 were supposed to be in the libary but were not returned from blue peter, wheel 5, power 6, toymaker 2, crusade 1, ice warriors 3 Where also supposed to have been put in the film libary, but never made it for some reason, where did they go! so thats 7 episodes that are known to have dissapared from the libary, and these are the ones we know about, what about the ones we don't know about. Nah, just the one... The Film Library never had Tenth Planet 4; they *only* ever had 1-3. Odd, yes. But true. Wheel 5, power 6, toymaker 2, crusade 1, ice warriors 3 all made it to the library but were junked at some point prior to 1978. So, just DMP4 went missing. [/quote] Enterprises only held 1-3 of tenth planet, wasen't aware the film libary had them as well, probally came from enterprises and put in the libary. Thanks for clearing that up Ash I was going by what I had read in Dr who magazine in the article out of the vaults. They way the article was worded gave the impression that those 5 episodes should have been in the film libary but never made it and were junked. Regards
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Post by Fluff Not Alf on Aug 8, 2005 16:31:51 GMT
If I was to hire something from the BBC their would be a set procedure to follow and the same for returning it. I can't imagine there being anything different when Blue Peter hired TP 4 AND dmp 4. If these episodes had been returned their would probally have been a certain person who the prints would have been required and the returnee would probally have to sign some paperwork to say it would have been returned. I can't imagine both these episodes being returned and then junked. I think you have a slightly odd idea of how things would have worked. "Blue Peter" would not have hired anything. They would simply have requisitioned the episodes, and it's unlikely the prints ever went anywhere near their office. It's more than likely they went straight to the telecine area, along with dozens and dozens of other reels of film. Tapes and films would have been going to and fro between the film library, Enterprises, Engineering and doubtless other departments all the time... as indeed happens now. If you visit regional BBC centres today, you'd find areas with master video tapes from Windmill Road hanging about waiting to be transferred or despatched elsewhere. And things go missing even now (although they usually turn up eventually). I hope that makes sense. I'm afraid your standard of English made it rather difficult for me to understand the point you were probably trying to make.
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Post by Ash Stewart on Aug 8, 2005 16:33:56 GMT
Do we know that? There's no evidence that "Tenth Planet" 4 wasn't returned. Masterplan 4 probably did go missing, but is as frankly as likely to have been junked as taken. And the other ones you mentioned were indeed in the film library, but were officially junked as being of no further value -not gone awol as you suggest. What evidence do you actually have otherwise? If I was to hire something from the BBC their would be a set procedure to follow and the same for returning it. I can't imagine there being anything different when Blue Peter hired TP 4 AND dmp 4. If these episodes had been returned their would probally have been a certain person who the prints would have been required and the returnee would probally have to sign some paperwork to say it would have been returned. I can't imagine both these episodes being returned and then junked. Both came from a different part of the BBC. TP4 from BBC Enterprises, and DMP4 from the Film Library. Thus both will have had their own different procedures.
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Post by Ash Stewart on Aug 8, 2005 16:35:41 GMT
Enterprises only held 1-3 of tenth planet, wasen't aware the film libary had them as well, probally came from enterprises and put in the libary. The Film Library only ever had TP 1-3. BBC Enterprises had all 4.
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Post by Stephen Neve on Aug 11, 2005 15:32:45 GMT
If I was to hire something from the BBC their would be a set procedure to follow and the same for returning it. I can't imagine there being anything different when Blue Peter hired TP 4 AND dmp 4. If these episodes had been returned their would probally have been a certain person who the prints would have been required and the returnee would probally have to sign some paperwork to say it would have been returned. I can't imagine both these episodes being returned and then junked. I think you have a slightly odd idea of how things would have worked. "Blue Peter" would not have hired anything. They would simply have requisitioned the episodes, and it's unlikely the prints ever went anywhere near their office. It's more than likely they went straight to the telecine area, along with dozens and dozens of other reels of film. Tapes and films would have been going to and fro between the film library, Enterprises, Engineering and doubtless other departments all the time... as indeed happens now. If you visit regional BBC centres today, you'd find areas with master video tapes from Windmill Road hanging about waiting to be transferred or despatched elsewhere. And things go missing even now (although they usually turn up eventually). I hope that makes sense. I'm afraid your standard of English made it rather difficult for me to understand the point you were probably trying to make. And whats wrong with my standard of English. ;D
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Post by the english police on Aug 12, 2005 9:32:14 GMT
your their should be "There"
There (eg over THERE)
Their (eg Belonging to somebody or company)
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Post by andrew martin on Aug 14, 2005 9:56:29 GMT
Film loan procedures from the BBC film library did not and do not require borrowers to sign for receipt or certify return. Despite this the system works pretty effectively - indeed if there was another layer of bureaucracy (given the thousands of items sent out every week) the whole thing would grind to a halt. It used to be the case that large amounts of material in the library did not have any back up, this is almost never the case now. The print of "The Traitors" must, incidentally, have been a spare sent to the film library by Enterprises...
The film library did have "The Power of the Daleks" #6 and "The Wheel in Space" #5, and they were junked (in the late 60s) - the components had been allocated can numbers, which would not have happened if they had not been received. The idea that there was a copy of "Celestial Toymaker" #2 is false, there is a typographical error on the record card for that episode that makes it look like a film recording logged for it was the whole episode, whereas in fact it was the recap insert. There was a negative for "The Ice Warriors" #3 but that was junked in 1969 (the copies of 1,4,5 and 6 were positive prints, not negatives, incidentally), similarly the negative of "The Crusade" #1 was junked around that time.
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