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Post by James C on May 25, 2008 9:10:19 GMT
Hi, found this montage of 1970 totp clips on youtube, was wondering if it had any missing performances in it, there's Bobby Bloom singing MONTEGO BAY, which i thought was a lost clip also there's a brief Kenny Everett intro! I can't identify all the artists in the clip, there is Family, Sandie Shaw, Dusty Springfield to name a few. uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr8reKUVXUAtold by who? its not listed in the bbc archive & she didnt appear on any totp show in 1970 Wrong. Sandie definitely appears with this in the 5-2-70 edition only that the BBC version is a b+w t/r. I'm not saying anything about this YouTube clip other than it made my blood boil. This particular poster's clips and ethics have been discussed elsewhere in this forum. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2008 10:09:44 GMT
This compilation has been around for quite a while. Most of that stuff resides at the BBC. Not sure about the Kenny Everett clip though, which seems to be from a slightly later period than 1970.
As far as the Lennon clips are concerned, i'm not sure if both (or either) still exist in PAL 625 line. The one used most on BBC is an NTSC transfer although i've not seen the other one for years (I gather it's out on DVD?) - can anyone say?
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Post by Mark Leech on May 25, 2008 12:14:54 GMT
The Everett piece is almost certainly from 1973.
Regards
Mark
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Post by dinsdale on May 25, 2008 12:55:33 GMT
There is one known Everett TOTP known to be in existance and that is 10/11/73, so chances are it is that one.
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Post by jonny on May 25, 2008 14:38:26 GMT
its not from that show as he was dressed up as a farmer, with blacked out teeth.
also from the above clip i would say most of it doesnt survive in the archive or even anywhere. if they do there's no evidence to support that yet.
the dusty, bloom & everett clips dont for sure & the shaw bit was recently discussed.
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Post by Mark Leech on May 25, 2008 14:40:12 GMT
I disagree on this one - as he is dressed differently in the existing show, with his teeth blacked out.
I doubt it's the 500th either, so that would leave 11-5-73, 1-6-73, 22-6-73, or 10-8-73 (which has already been discussed in a earlier post).
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Post by Paul Watkins on May 25, 2008 15:31:33 GMT
Re: Lennon Clips The 'Blue' version did reside in the BBC archive back in the 80's. It was shown on at least 2 programme, whistle test was one, the other was ?. I have a recording of it somewhere and yes the quality was VERY ropey. Faded colour and unstable picture Anyway this is on the DVD 'Lennon-The Legend. in perfect quality Here it is on youtube uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP3wT5lpa4Surely with 2 sources this edition must have survived either as a telerecording or in Yoko/John's Video archive? |
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Post by Peter Elliott on May 25, 2008 16:05:27 GMT
Surely with 2 sources this edition must have survived either as a telerecording or in Yoko/John's Video archive? One would think so... 12-2-70 was certainly recorded and was still in the BBC archive in 1971 when German TV used the Bobbie Gentry clip. I would had thought that John and Yoko being the keen archivists of their work would had had a copy of the entire show for posterity since it would preserve just who the POB were up against at the time but AFAIK Ono only seems to have the POB clips. |
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Post by dinsdale on May 25, 2008 17:31:54 GMT
Of the other list of possible Everett dates, i would think probably 10-8-73 as there is a rumour going aroung that it exists in a private collection, but nothing has been said about any other edition.
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Post by James C on May 25, 2008 18:03:05 GMT
Maybe there is another Kenny Everett TOTP around, who were the presenters in 1970 apart from Jimmy Saville and Tony Blackburn? Could Kenny have presented TOTP in 1970? The Dusty Springfield clip would date from late 1969 which might suggest that more early colour clips or shows from1969 might exist! I disagree on this one - as he is dressed differently in the existing show, with his teeth blacked out. I doubt it's the 500th either, so that would leave 11-5-73, 1-6-73, 22-6-73, or 10-8-73 (which has already been discussed in a earlier post). |
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Post by StevePhillips on May 25, 2008 23:23:41 GMT
Re: Lennon Clips The 'Blue' version did reside in the BBC archive back in the 80's. It was shown on at least 2 programme, whistle test was one, the other was ?. I have a recording of it somewhere and yes the quality was VERY ropey. Faded colour and unstable picture Anyway this is on the DVD 'Lennon-The Legend. in perfect quality Here it is on youtube uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP3wT5lpa4Surely with 2 sources this edition must have survived either as a telerecording or in Yoko/John's Video archive? Don't know much about the Beatles and Lennon and Yoko etc, but I've seen a version of the above (with almost the same camera script?) but with Yoko holding signs up? |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2008 10:36:31 GMT
12-2-70 was certainly recorded and was still in the BBC archive in 1971 when German TV used the Bobbie Gentry clip. I would had thought that John and Yoko being the keen archivists of their work would had had a copy of the entire show for posterity since it would preserve just who the POB were up against at the time but AFAIK Ono only seems to have the POB clips. I've long been curious as to how long certain TOTP shows were kept, Peter. Some obviously for resale of clips, some for reuse of clips in subsequent editions / Xmas shows etc. As you say, the 12/2/70 show was obviously still around in '71 as Disco used the Gentry clip (I can't imagine it would have been foreseen that just that clip was going to be bought a year on, so we must assume the whole show was still on the shelf). Presumably there must have been other shows of that same vintage (and earlier?) still sitting there at that point as well, either pending wiping or for potential clip sales. By the time of the "10 Years Of" show in '73 though, it seems a lot of stuff had gone as what is used in that programme pretty much ties in with what still survives in the archives now. As far as the Lennon appearance is concerned, possibly he could only be granted copies of the P.O.B. clips from that edition, the rest being subject to copyright restrictions (?) I'm sure that rule was waived sometimes though - it would be great to think that the whole show(s) were in the Ono archive (as with the Parkinson edition) but it's hard to find out conclusively. In answer to another posting though, the pristine versions of both clips do come from Yoko. Not sure if the BBC have high quality copies of both currently though - does Andrew Martin know? |
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Post by Peter Elliott on May 26, 2008 11:19:42 GMT
I agree that the colour 12/2/70 show existed in 1971... Bobbie Gentry did not get the hit with that song and BJ Thomas himself is seen performing it on 26/2/70 so there would had been no real reason for the BBC just to hang on to Bobbie's performance.
I find it curious that the POB clips existed as colour telerecordings as well... has any other TOTP material ever surfaced in that format? I certainly don't know of anything else! So, that gets one wondering why the POB material existed as colour t/r's but nothing else from that era has surfaced in that format.
On a new thread here someone posted a YouTube clip of "Come and Get It" in full colour. Nice to see it but what interests me is that Jimmy Savile's intros at each end are there in full. We know that was retained on a colour compilation made in 1971 which leads to the inevitable question, does that tape also feature DJ intros and outros on other tracks? The use of the Jethro Tull clip on "Sounds of The Seventies" where at the end it swiftly cut the the b+w t/r for Jimmy's closing comments suggest not, or not always.
Also, just why was that compilation made in 1971? I have a couple of theories... possibly to round up material the BBC thought may be of interest to German TV or other overseas TV companies, or someone knew that wiping was taking place and quickly made copies of worthy performances. I guess we'll never know for certain.
The "10 Years Of..." show in 1973 clearly reveals by then, the archive had been decimated proving that whatever had been kept of TOTP was massacred during 1971 to 1973. So frustrating... imagine if TOTP had done it's very own "Pop Go The Sixties" retro in late 1969, looking back over the 60's using TOTP clips... there surely would had been much more material available then which could had stood a chance of being preserved on such a show.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2008 12:46:22 GMT
I find it curious that the POB clips existed as colour telerecordings as well... has any other TOTP material ever surfaced in that format? I certainly don't know of anything else! So, that gets one wondering why the POB material existed as colour t/r's but nothing else from that era has surfaced in that format. On a new thread here someone posted a YouTube clip of "Come and Get It" in full colour. Nice to see it but what interests me is that Jimmy Savile's intros at each end are there in full. We know that was retained on a colour compilation made in 1971 which leads to the inevitable question, does that tape also feature DJ intros and outros on other tracks? The use of the Jethro Tull clip on "Sounds of The Seventies" where at the end it swiftly cut the the b+w t/r for Jimmy's closing comments suggest not, or not always. I think it may be that the POB colour t/rs were made for circulation by Yoko (some of The Beatles' VT promos were made for this reason and were for many years the only copies circulating); she also has the Parkinson on colour t/r, so i'd say this is likely. According to the BBC documentation, the Jethro Tull (and other of the Jan 1970 colour clips) contains it's intro although I haven't actually seen it. If they finally perfect a means of extracting colour from b/w t/rs, that Jan 1970 TOTP would be a prime candidate for restoration as large chunks of the show are already in colour! |
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Post by Peter Elliott on May 26, 2008 13:33:45 GMT
I think it may be that the POB colour t/rs were made for circulation by Yoko (some of The Beatles' VT promos were made for this reason and were for many years the only copies circulating); she also has the Parkinson on colour t/r, so i'd say this is likely. According to the BBC documentation, the Jethro Tull (and other of the Jan 1970 colour clips) contains it's intro although I haven't actually seen it. If they finally perfect a means of extracting colour from b/w t/rs, that Jan 1970 TOTP would be a prime candidate for restoration as large chunks of the show are already in colour! Yes, a good point about the colour t/r's/ John and Yoko did have various film showings of their work and I'd guess some of the TV material would had got an airing at those, plus of course there's the Parkinson t/r... again, I've never seen any other t/r examples of Parkinson so the t/r's were indeed likely to have been made especially for John and Yoko. When they did the "24 Hours" doc in late 69, it was under the condition they would be given all the raw footage so it suggest they came to some kind of agreement with the BBC over their TV appearances. The 29/1/70 show is a strong candidate for a full colour restoration since several songs exist on colour VT and nice to know the intros are intact as well. I've guessed colourising the intros would be a nightmare since they're all more or less Savile stood in front of the blue screen flashing all manner of imagery throughout which colour info would be a bit more harder to extract or guess. At least we have the original colour info for Jimmy's outfit which would help recolour the b+w intros. If the colour info can be extracted from all the b+w material, the film can then be Vidfired, the colour VT sections carefully spliced back in and the result would be stunning, as close to the original colour VT of the whole show as possible... given that it's one of the very best TOTP shows of all (along with the other 2 early 70 shows) that would be a wonderful treat to see. I live in hope! |
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